yunfat

/rant on 2 years away from the forum and mac users are still getting the shaft, nice to see things haven't changed. If you think there will ever be a CM game for OSX you are crazy... already people are making excuses about the intel transition. Am I reading this correctly? Is it true that BFC still plans an OSX game? I mean, why?... its 4 years late. I can't understand why anyone would believe BFC with regard to mac support, you are out of your heads to do so, imho they turned their back on the mac a long time ago. I thought BFC had alienated and pissed off all mac users by now, but they are still here (granted, CM was amazing). Heck, its shocking to see these mac users stuck around to run a dead OS for another 3 years. Kudos for creating such a great game BFC... I for one, was forced to give up CM with OS9. I am hopeful for the future, but I don't see BFC making a mac game ever again, its too resource intensive. OSX requires developers stay up to speed with point updates, and BFC will never have that ability. So, no matter what the developers say, don't beleive them. There will be no mac support. /rant off

Um... some of the suggestions here are so absurd I can't believe it. I appreciate the creativity of the average CM player, but why can't we narrow down our goals for the next CM in a unified voice, so someone actually listens. This is the most important thread we have as customers of the game, and some of you are treating it as a joke. It really pisses me off. I really shouldn't comment about what I want or don't want in the next CM (my protests and suggestions in the past have bordered on insane narcissistic tirades), but I think that we can all agree we want what's best for the game®. Can't we? The deficiencies of the current CM graphics engine are abundant, yet some of you are asking for new physics models, realtime combat, and CM Vietnam. Some of these suggestions are not in the spirit of CM, others are merely dumb. CM is built by a small cadre of people... what some of you people want could not be undertaken by a developer with ten times the manpower. Lets fix what we know is currently broken, lets max out the graphics and break compatibility with older machines (with the time between engines this is now a necessity), lets concentrate on 3d models and lighting. In other words, we have genre leading gameplay, lets tighten up the looks. I am not trying to discount the opinions of the people who have made suggestions that I would classify as ambitious, merely trying to point out we have an opportunity here...

13. Delivering a coordinated attack using a combination of forces against an enemy position is the hardest thing to do in the game, and your enemy will do everything possible to prevent it.

On defense, split the SMG squads to get double foxholes. Then merge the squads after the setup round. Engage the enemy at close range using the trapdoor effect mentioned above, and then make haste to the rear foxholes you made as a result of the "split". After annihilating your opponents soft targets with the SMG teams, engage the leftovers with MG fire which should support the SMG teams position. The next round your enemy will direct his arty to the wrong place, your MG's will get maximum kill effect, and you will have retreated to a safe position clear of any HE counter-attack. Usually the shock of losing an entire platoon will force your enemy to commit resources he would otherwise save for other things. Of course, a good attacker will have probed for exactly this type of maneuver, and will try to force you to show your SMG teams early.

Thank you for the resource.

Ugh. I lost my copy of CMBB because I never thought I would use it again. This is ok though. What I really need is concrete info with screenshots. I could never get CMBB to work with my GF4MX on my Dual 1ghz QS tower, but if this ATI driver fixes stuff, I will RUN to the store and pick up a 9000, then run to bigtime and buy YET ANOTHER copy of CMBB, run home and repartition a HD, reinstall OS9, install CMBB, apply some Just For Men Gel®, and then do my Robert Shaw impersonation from that movie where he rides around in a Tiger until the mailman arrives with the discs. Does this work for 9800 cards also? I assume so, but once burned twice shy. Please please make sceenshots as big as possible, because I have to make a huge investment to make this happen, like $200 and a few hours of my time.

If I am incorrect, so be it. Mike from Xceler8te your Mac stated that your original press release was not clear, I never got the actual press release, so I don't actually know. He just said to me that it said "Mac" compatible (which in this day and age means OSX compatible, hate to break the news to you). I beleive that your statement "Mac compatible" is completely bogus, and I stand by that. Your game is "OS9" compatible, not "Mac" compatible. I don't want other Mac gamers to be misled. Not mentioning the game will only work in OS9 in that first press release was unintentionally misleading imho. Thats why I was so upset yesterday. I appreciate you taking the time to even read my rant Matt, it proves you guys care, and thats the thing I love about the Battlefront community. But you can't make the best game in the world on a Mac, and then hope that the community won't react violently when you don't continue to support your product on the latest Mac OS. I don't envy your position, because you are trying to do the right thing, but for many in the community, your efforts come too late. Let me say this, I care too, thats why I and many in the community think you made a bad business decision to not pursue an engine re-write before the CMAK release. This, I beleive, alienated your Mac audience, who has been with you from the beginning (and who may keep an OS9 mac in the arsenal just for your games). We never want this to happen again. We may be insignificant as far as numbers go, but we are passionate and vocal largely because we have have been with the game since the Overlord beta. The game has been so much a part of our lives because we saw it grow. It hurts to say goodbye. The problem too is the product you make never sucked, it was always the best in show, which is why so many of us Mac "addicts" are having a hard time swallowing the fact we won't be playing another BTS game for years. This is simply unfortunate, I have no place to vent but here, and for that I am sorry. I won't be saying another thing negative about this situation again and eagerly anticipate the engine re-write. You guys have always made the best games, for passionate gamers. With a game like CM its easy to become too passionate, we feel we have invested a lot (hell, each game can last many hours), and we start to take things personally. My only hope is that you understand we take it personal because we love it so much.

One more thing BTS, if you are listening. When you send out a press release you should say that the game is OS9 ONLY. I have had to correct a number of Mac news sites regarding the CMAK press release. These sites are under the assumption the game runs in X. The press release mentions Mac compatibility, but we all know thats a croc. No new macs run the freakin game, who the hell are you kidding?

I'm glad to hear that CM is being re-written. I'll re-examine the issue when they ship a new version. Quite frankly, I don't see how the "best intentions" of BTS/BFC's efforts matter. I run a construction company, and I'm very aware of the market value of a complete set of the best intentions, and I have several spare sets for sale, if anyone here is interested in buying them. The Mac world has moved on, leaving many pieces of obsolete software behind. If I understand you correctly, BTS's target market, and the market they are developing for seems to be the Windows market and those with older Macs. I don't fit either market. Perhaps I'll leave the game installed and pack the CD with one of my older Macs when I donate it to the battered women's shelter, or something. In my company, the situation is never out of our hands to solve. Everyone have a good day, and thanks for your help. </font>

Also, since my thread was locked in the main forum (yes I did a search and I couldnt find this thread) I will repost it here... Jarmo, please tell me what current shipping macs display CM properly out of the box? No, I'm not tooting my own horn by reposting, its just I have no way to respond to those people who have already responded to my initial post unless I post here to this thread. Here is the post that got locked up that should have been placed in this thread... ------- I am a loyal patron of BTS and its products, however, recent changes in Mac hardware have made CM incompatible with most, if not all macintosh computers in the current supply chain. I have made my views public in this forum in the past, but they seem to have fallen on deaf ears. I grow tired of criticizing the company that brought me endless hours of gaming bliss, however, I think its in the best interests of the company to voice how I feel, in order to make the product better, and to ensure that future generations of CM don't suffer the same fate. *rant on* Please help me as I am so angry that BTS no longer supports the Mac platform. Let me first make something very clear, there are no current mac towers capable of playing CM... none, nada, zip. Is this what BTS calls "Mac Compatible"? I hasten to say the Mac has been abandoned by BTS, and thats a shame. I am sure all of you out there are happy chugging along in your Beige G3's with OS9 and CM, but I have a new G4, and my copy of CMBO and CMBB are now worthless... doesn't this bother anyone, that CM is no longer "Mac Compatible" on any tower Apple sells? Please don't quote me numbers on how the OS9 installed user base is huge, and that there are only about 15 people using OSX in the whole world, ergo why should BTS support it? Its a croc. OSX is robust and stable for at least the last 18 months. Do any of you mac users wish to chime in on the situation? I seem to be the only one here that is getting really pissed. CMAK is nice, but OSX has been out for years, and BTS still refuses to support it, thats a shame. Its also a shame that noone here seems to care. Let me say this... I DO CARE... but, from a business standpoint, maintaining legacy hardware for a single game is almost as ludicrous as some the comments in the Peng Challenge thread. I have to turn over my macs because I use them for business and need the fastest/greatest, and to take advantage of their correspondingly high resale value, and now my new mac no longer supports CM... I say its time to remove "Mac Compatible" from the BTS website, its a lie, OS9 is dead. Two years from now I am sure I may be assuaged by a new CM engine that is compatible with my hardware, however, in the meantime, CMAK is a stab in the back to me as a Mac user, I hasten to say it was the wrong move by BTS not to commence work immediately on a new 3D engine that supports OSX. Naturally, this is a narcisstic viewpoint, and BTS will do whatever it wants to do anyway (indeed it already has), however I feel completely disenfranchised as a new mac owner that I can no longer play my favorite game, which isn't "Mac Compatible" by my definition. I ask you Mac users out there, how do you feel?... are you happy just to have CM on OS9? Are you happy that you cannot buy a new mac if you want to play CM? Are you happy dual booting? It makes me nauseous that I won't be able to play CM for ? years because BTS refuses to support OSX. I freely admit there were numerous external circumstances that affected BTS's ability to produce an OSX game initially, but here we are... two years later. *rant off* Please take all of this with a grain of salt I had a few shots of kahlua in my coffee this morning, and felt like I needed to vent my frustration somewhere, and since I can't do it on the battlefield... --------

Jarmo, The current mac towers are incompatible with CM, I refute your assertion otherwise... they all come with a Radeon 9000, which I assume there are problems with, as discussed in this forum... to what macs are you referring when you say that CM is compatible with all current macs (of course not including the G5)?

I am a loyal patron of BTS and its products, however, recent changes in Mac hardware have made CM incompatible with most, if not all macintosh computers in the current supply chain. I have made my views public in this forum in the past, but they seem to have fallen on deaf ears. I grow tired of criticizing the company that brought me endless hours of gaming bliss, however, I think its in the best interests of the company to voice how I feel, in order to make the product better, and to ensure that future generations of CM don't suffer the same fate. *rant on* Please help me as I am so angry that BTS no longer supports the Mac platform. Let me first make something very clear, there are no current mac towers capable of playing CM... none, nada, zip. Is this what BTS calls "Mac Compatible"? I hasten to say the Mac has been abandoned by BTS, and thats a shame. I am sure all of you out there are happy chugging along in your Beige G3's with OS9 and CM, but I have a new G4, and my copy of CMBO and CMBB are now worthless... doesn't this bother anyone, that CM is no longer "Mac Compatible" on any tower Apple sells? Please don't quote me numbers on how the OS9 installed user base is huge, and that there are only about 15 people using OSX in the whole world, ergo why should BTS support it? Its a croc. OSX is robust and stable for at least the last 18 months. Do any of you mac users wish to chime in on the situation? I seem to be the only one here that is getting really pissed. CMAK is nice, but OSX has been out for years, and BTS still refuses to support it. Its also a shame that noone here seems to care. Let me say this... I DO CARE... but, from a business standpoint, maintaining legacy hardware for a single game is almost as ludicrous as some the comments in the Peng Challenge thread. I have to turn over my macs because I use them for business and need the fastest/greatest, and to take advantage of their correspondingly high resale value, and now my new mac no longer supports CM... I say its time to remove "Mac Compatible" from the BTS website, its a lie, OS9 is dead. Two years from now I am sure I may be assuaged by a new CM engine that is compatible with my hardware, however, in the meantime, CMAK is a stab in the back to me as a Mac user, I hasten to say it was the wrong move by BTS not to commence work immediately on a new 3D engine that supports OSX immediately after the completeion of CMBB. Naturally, this is a narcisstic viewpoint, and BTS will do whatever it wants to do anyway (indeed it already has), however I feel completely disenfranchised as a new mac owner that I can no longer play my favorite game, which isn't "Mac Compatible" by my definition. I ask you Mac users out there, how do you feel?... are you happy just to have CM on OS9? Are you happy that you cannot buy a new mac if you want to play CM? Are you happy dual booting? It makes me nauseous that I won't be able to play CM for ? years because BTS refuses to support OSX. I freely admit there were numerous external circumstances that affected BTS's ability to produce an OSX game initially, but here we are... two years later. *rant off* Please take all of this with a grain of salt I had a few shots of kahlua in my coffee this morning, and felt like I needed to vent my frustration somewhere, and since I can't do it on the battlefield...

Will posting to this thread make BTS start work on a new engine? No. Will posting to this thread pass the time until BTS starts work on a new engine? Yes.

My dissapointment that this game is coming before an OSX code upgrade is overwhelming. There doesn't seem to be any real debate as to why BTS chose to do this. I guess its self explanatory that the powers that be are satified with their OS9 user base, and the prowess of their current 3D engine, which they feel can be tweaked one last time to include the infamous "dust clouds" of North Africa. Since no new mac can play this little gem, I, for one, wish they had been a little more ambitious and a little more progressive. This isn't really a mac version, it's an OS 9 version... which is, essentially, a piece of abandonware. Who can justify keeping legacy hardware for a single game?

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH Thats how I feel about this stinking situation. Basically, no current desktop mac can run CM, and even the old "new" machines with Radeon 9000 wont run CM. Unless a fix is in the works, I consider BTS to have abandoned the Mac platform... whether or not apple hoodwinked them. Supporting just legacy hardware does not mean your game is Mac compatible. If you don't support the current stuff, its not. I wonder how many people are returning their CM's over this... I would certainly be upset, the game says Mac OS9 compatible, not Mac OS9 compatible "with legacy hardware only".

Uhm, doesn't trees sway in the wind already in CMBB? </font>

1) Trees that sway in the wind 2) Water that is dynamic and transparent 3) Collision detection in game (real 3d engine) 4) Particle effects, coronas, and lens flares. 5) Nurb rendering for accurate damage of 3d objects like tanks and buildings 6) Trees that can be targeted for shell bursts above the heads of my enemies 7) Tanks that leave tracks 8) Explosions that look really nice, with transparent flames 9) Much more battlefield dust, and flotsam in the air 10) The ability of ricochets to kill 11) The ability for infantry to assist bogged tanks (can you imagine the extra motion capture work the BTS animation team would have to do for that one) 12) Trees that take damage (would require many more polygons/nurbs) 13) Dynamic skies/clouds/rain/weather... how cool would it be if the random weather setting was really random? ie you start a battle and its sunny, and by turn 15 its pouring. How about clouds passing over the battlefield? 14) Fauna 15) Many many death animations... people coming apart, limbs flying, dead arbitrarily scattered throughout the battlefield 16) A First Person mode that allows you to join your troops and see what they see during the turn phase. This would include a mode where you are in a tank and see what the gunner sees, preferably through a scratchy and dusty lens. 17) Turrets getting blown off, literally 18) Quick battle presets, dozens of them, rather than manually having to change stuff all the time (yes i know it saves your last settings, but i dont play the same people over and over so said settings are almost always changed). 19) A built in game browser that displays open servers (people ready to play) possibly with built in chat. 20) Faster framerates 21) THE ABILITY TO RECORD TURNS AS COMPRESSED VIDEO 22) World Ranking System, and a World Championship of CM. 23) Dynamic marks on walls 24) Dust when bullets hit concrete and other fixed objects ------------- Many of the things I propose would be impossible for a software house like BTS, and would put the budget of the next CM well into the millions. Thats simply how much a modern 3d engine costs. I hesitate to say that NONE of the stuff I propose will make it to the next CM. Before I get labeled a troll, let me say this, I love CM as much as any of you, and no, I agree the next CM engine doesn't have to look like Doom 3. I can summarize my feelings like this, the current incarnation of CM graphics doesn't detract from the fact its an awesome game, but, CM could be so much better if it made your jaw drop the first time you fire it up. I would play more, if thats possible. [ January 30, 2003, 08:36 PM: Message edited by: yunfat ]

The mod that allows me to lose with respect, rather than throwing uncontrollable temper tantrums. I think it should be called the xanax mod. Seriously though, mods only go so far, I play a lot of games that require no mods, but still look great because the engine is so robust. Indeed, I am hoping that the new engine will be so good that it doesnt need any mods at all. The mods I want are all far too complicated for the current incarnation of the CM engine. Like: 1) Trees that sway in the wind 2) Water that is dynamic and transparent 3) Collision detection in game (real 3d engine) 4) Particle effects, coronas, and lens flares. 5) Nurb rendering for accurate damage of 3d objects like tanks and buildings 6) Trees that can be targeted for shell bursts above the heads of my enemies 7) Tanks that leave tracks 8) Explosions that look really nice, with transparent flames 9) Much more battlefield dust, and flotsam in the air 10) The ability of ricochets to kill 11) The ability for infantry to assist bogged tanks (can you imagine the extra motion capture work the BTS animation team would have to do for that one) 12) Trees that take damage (would require many more polygons/nurbs) 13) Dynamic skies/clouds/rain/weather... how cool would it be if the random weather setting was really random? ie you start a battle and its sunny, and by turn 15 its pouring. How about clouds passing over the battlefield. 14) Fauna 15) Many many death animations... people coming apart, limbs flying, dead arbitrarily scattered throughout the battlefield 16) A First Person mode that allows you to join your troops and see what they see during the turn phase. This would include a mode where you are in a tank and see what the gunner sees, preferably through a scratchy and dusty lens. 17) Turrets getting blown off, literally 18) Quick battle presets, dozens of them, rather than manually having to change stuff all the time (yes i know it saves your last settings, but i dont play the same people over and over so said settings are almost always changed). 19) A built in game browser that displays open servers (people ready to play) possibly with built in chat. 20) Faster framerates 21) THE ABILITY TO RECORD TURNS AS COMPRESSED VIDEO 22) World Ranking System, and a World Championship of CM. 23) Dynamic marks on walls 24) Dust when bullets hit concrete and other fixed objects ------------- Many of the things I propose would be impossible for a software house like BTS, and would put the budget of the next CM well into the millions. Thats simply how much a modern 3d engine costs. I hesitate to say that NONE of the stuff I propose will make it to the next CM. Before I get labeled a troll, let me say this, I love CM as much as any of you, and no, I agree the next CM engine doesn't have to look like Doom 3. I can summarize my feelings like this, the current incarnation of CM graphics doesn't detract from the fact its an awesome game, but, CM could be so much better if it made your jaw drop the first time you fire it up. I would play more, if thats possible. [ January 30, 2003, 07:31 PM: Message edited by: yunfat ]

My gift to the CMBB forums today : a beautiful never before seen photo of the Berlin Olympics, possibly taken by my father. Before and after with PS7. Here is the example... If you click the first photo you should be able to toggle between the photos for an instant comparison using the buttons at the bottom of the screen. I'll let you decide which looks better.

Opinions are like assholes I guess. Any photograph thats old will lose many of its original properties. Photoshop can return many of those properties to their initial state (the original mint condition photo or negative) reducing the amount of visual anomalies that are inherent with storing photos for long periods of time. Simple exposure to oxygen will cause any old photo paper to turn brownish yellow, a quick fix with the color correction tools of photoshop will solve this. A quick adjustment of contrast and brightness levels (very important for black and white pictures) can reduce many of the imperfections of the original exposure and print. Not to mention the imperfections incurred by a scan of said photo. You're right, hogwash. Thats why all my really old photos now look better than the originals, or rather, how the originals initially looked. I guess Adobe can stop making Photoshop now.

If you want me to retouch the photos, let me know, you will need PhotoShop 7.0's healing brush to remove many of the imperfections in a typical old photo. I have a fair amount of experience with this kind of stuff, from scanning my grandad's WW1 pics. Basically, don't even bother trying this project unless you have PS7, I dont know if anyone mentioned this, but its essential. Cheers

Just an observation... I had a KV2 destroy a STUGIV with indirect fire (I didn't have LOS). I aimed next to the STUG, bang dead.

I find it odd that my original Mac Radeon (pre-7000) supports transparent smoke just fine, and your 8500 does not. Its hard to believe that the more advanced card wouldn't have all the features as my old Radeon. I am running 9.2.2 on a G4 500 AGP. I really need to sell the computer, but if I lose transparency in CMBB I will just have to bite the bullet and keep the machine (a $700 CMBB rig, yay!). These reports of Radeon and 8500's and 9000 Pro's not supporting transparency are disturbing. Perhaps official battlefront commentary? Do you think they will notice if I do a full install of CMBB at my Apple Store?

Does anyone use these cards to play CMBB? I was thinking of upgrading my GeForce4 MX (which doesnt seem to work with CM) which came with my Dual Ghz quicksilver model. Does anyone know of any issues with these cards and my setup? I am selling the computer with my original Radeon that works great with CM and I dont want to get "stuck". I am leaning toward getting the Radeon 8500. Thanks in advance.

Thanks Ryan, I just ordered three women from somewhere in the Ukraine. I'm just hoping they ship as fast battlefront!