veloboldie Posted February 28, 2002 Share Posted February 28, 2002 After reading Macgamer interview with staff members of Big Time developer team, (published today), I was surprised to find out that among the armies of the Soviet war, there are no Polish units. For the game to be historically accurate, Poles need to be included. Poles fought along the Russians from their first battle near Lenino, through Poland, to finally taking Berlin. I would be interested to hear fom the Big Time Software staff. The following units of the Polish Army fought along side the Russians: 1 Armia Wojska Polskiego (1st Polish Army) which had over 100 000 strong and was composed of 5 infantry divisions, 1 cavalry brigade, 1 tank brigade and other artillery, ordinance and communications battalions. Among key accomplishments was the liberation of Warsaw and attack on Berlin. They also met 9th US Army near river Elbe. [ February 28, 2002, 10:33 AM: Message edited by: veloboldie ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronChef4 Posted February 28, 2002 Share Posted February 28, 2002 Whoa! I can't believe that I overlooked that myself. Maybe the Polish on the Eastern Front were simply drafted into/joined the Russian Army rather than fighting as an independent army? (Historians help me out here. . .) In which case, I could understand their exclusion as an independent force in the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hellfish Posted February 28, 2002 Share Posted February 28, 2002 Were the Polish forces any different from their Russian counterparts? I just read a book called "My Just War" about a Pole who went into the Soviet Army. I got the impression that while there were Polish units, they were largely identical to the Soviet ones, and often spoke Russian themselves. The reason Poles may not be included is the same that the Spanish, Dutch, Danes, Norweigans and Belgians are not included for the Germans - they were so integrated into the German Army (Spanish Blau Division, Wiking SS Division, etc.) that there is no point in distingishing them individually. I mean, all you'd really need to do is change sound files and only then would you be able to tell that the company you're fighting with is made up of Spaniards instead of Berliners or Wurttembergers. They wore the same uniforms, fired the same weapons... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andreas Posted February 28, 2002 Share Posted February 28, 2002 There was a separate Polish Army (recruited in POW camps IIRC and Soviet equipped) fighting in the Red Army. i have no idea about their size. The logic for including them would be same as for including the French (just Americans with silly voice-overs) or the Polish now (Tommies that growl). The reasoning against it could be that you: a) need to research their actual TO&E (i.e. were they equipped with IS-2s, if so, when) end up with another set of units in a game that already has six or seven to choose from c) you need their campaign history to slot them in the rarity system. So, some arguments either way, let's see what BTS has come up with. As long as they don't include the Blue Division or German rifle grenades, I am happy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Wacky Posted February 28, 2002 Share Posted February 28, 2002 Oh man, there are a million answers to that question and they're all hilarious Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thin Red Line Posted February 28, 2002 Share Posted February 28, 2002 In CMBB the French would rather be Germans with silly voice-overs... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skipper Posted February 28, 2002 Share Posted February 28, 2002 Wojsko Polskoe in terms of organisation, TOE etc was same as normal RKKA formations. Afaik, there were also quite a few soviet officers in it. Polish units were regarded quite highly for their fighting abilities - not sneezed at like Germans felt about all their allies. It is a pity Poles don't make it into the game. Speaking of French, I am not aware about any french units fighting in Russia. Except Mormandia-Neman, of course. Were there any??? [ February 28, 2002, 01:03 PM: Message edited by: Skipper ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moon Posted February 28, 2002 Share Posted February 28, 2002 As far as I know (Steve would be able to give a lot more details about this), Skipper is correct. Polish troops in CMBB would be largely only different from the regular Russian formations by their voices, so there is little gain having to create a whole new sound set for the Poles vs. simply using Russians for the few distinct Polish formations fighting in the war (a number of Poles also fought as sub-units of Russian armies, btw). Having said that, if and when there'll be enough time, I guess Poles still could make it in - at least they're not totally ruled out according to Charles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viceroy Posted February 28, 2002 Share Posted February 28, 2002 According to Mollo from 1941 to April '43 Polish forces raised were mostly sent to the UK or Middle East to serve with British forces. After that they were used as Soviet forces and had the same equipment. They retained Polish cap badges though. By 1945 there were over 200,000 Polish troops making up 10 infantry divisions and 2 armored brigades.They were most directly involved in the fighting from Aug '44 to May '45. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stacheldraht Posted February 28, 2002 Share Posted February 28, 2002 For some more info on these forces, look under "Anders' Army" and "Berling's Army" in The Oxford Companion to World War II, for a basic rundown of their history and some possibly useful references. No TO&E listings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gatpr Posted March 1, 2002 Share Posted March 1, 2002 There were some French volunteer units in the Wehrmacht. I know that much, how effective they were is something someone else will have to address. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schrullenhaft Posted March 1, 2002 Share Posted March 1, 2002 Moon - could the Polish voices in CMBO be used for those in CMBB or is there a desire to re-record all of the voices in the game (different sampling, phrases, etc.) ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gud Posted March 1, 2002 Share Posted March 1, 2002 A quick and dirty guide to Poles in ww2: 1939 - WP (Wojsko Polskie), regular Polish army. Defeated by combined effort of Nazis and Soviet. Most survivors fled to Romania and Hungary. Thanks to sympathy of these countires' governments, almost all Polish soldiers were able to reach France or England. 1940- Polish forces integrated into French army, incl. 1 Tank Bde. Fought in Low Countries campaign. Most were captured or fled to Switzerland, a few hundred made it to Dunkirk and escaped 1940-1946 PSZ (Polskie Sily Zbrojne) - Poles fighting alongside UK forces. 1 Bde at Narvik, 1 Bde at Tobruk, then 1 Corps (2nd Polish Corps) in Italy (see Anders army below) and 1 Tank Div and 1 Para Bde in NWE 1944-1945 (these folks are in CM). Most famous for Falaise, Arnhem, Mte. Cassino and Bologne. 1941-1942 Anders' Army. Polish POWs in Russian captivity were set free when Stalin discovered that his Red Army is going down. There was a plan to create Polish Army in Russia, but when Katyn Massacre was discovered Poland broke all dipl. relations with USSR - Anders took his men (and lots of civilians) for a long trek to Persia. These soldiers were backbone of 2nd Polish Corps of PSZ. 1944-1945 LWP (Ludowe Wojsko Polskie) Poles fighting in Red Army. Org same as Russians. Partisan factions: AK (Armia Krajowa) - Democratic London-backed faction, largest of all, decimated by Soviets after 1945. AL (Armia Ludowa/Gwardia Ludowa) Communist partisans. NSZ (Narodowe Sily Zbrojne) - Ultra-right fascist/nationalist partisan. If it's not Polish and not Catholic, then it's their target. BCh (Bataliony Chlopskie) - Peasant militia, later joined AK Hope it helps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gen. Sosaboski Posted March 1, 2002 Share Posted March 1, 2002 I thought the Poles were going to be in CMBB. It is a disappointment, after having them in CMBO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battlefront.com Posted March 1, 2002 Share Posted March 1, 2002 The Poles will be in CMBB. Repeat WILL BE in CMBB. Charles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madmatt Posted March 1, 2002 Share Posted March 1, 2002 Originally posted by Big Time Software: The Poles will be in CMBB. Repeat WILL BE in CMBB. CharlesSo sayeth the Lord our God... Madmatt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted March 1, 2002 Share Posted March 1, 2002 Amen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pzman Posted March 1, 2002 Share Posted March 1, 2002 Originally posted by Madmatt: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Big Time Software: The Poles will be in CMBB. Repeat WILL BE in CMBB. CharlesSo sayeth the Lord our God... Madmatt</font> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted March 1, 2002 Share Posted March 1, 2002 Originally posted by Panzerman: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Madmatt: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Big Time Software: The Poles will be in CMBB. Repeat WILL BE in CMBB. CharlesSo sayeth the Lord our God... Madmatt</font> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pzman Posted March 1, 2002 Share Posted March 1, 2002 Originally posted by Michael Dorosh: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Panzerman: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Madmatt: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Big Time Software: The Poles will be in CMBB. Repeat WILL BE in CMBB. CharlesSo sayeth the Lord our God... Madmatt</font> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted March 1, 2002 Share Posted March 1, 2002 I read just fine. How is "the guy who does the coding" any different from God? By all means, spell it out for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pak40 Posted March 1, 2002 Share Posted March 1, 2002 Originally posted by Moon: As far as I know (Steve would be able to give a lot more details about this), Skipper is correct. Polish troops in CMBB would be largely only different from the regular Russian formations by their voices, so there is little gain having to create a whole new sound set for the Poles vs. I agree with this, however, BTS did model the Canadians which really are no different than the British. The uniforms may be a little different but the equipment and TOE are largely the same. So why model the Canadians in CMBO and not the Poles in CMBB? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pzman Posted March 1, 2002 Share Posted March 1, 2002 Originally posted by Pak40: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Moon: As far as I know (Steve would be able to give a lot more details about this), Skipper is correct. Polish troops in CMBB would be largely only different from the regular Russian formations by their voices, so there is little gain having to create a whole new sound set for the Poles vs. I agree with this, however, BTS did model the Canadians which really are no different than the British. The uniforms may be a little different but the equipment and TOE are largely the same. So why model the Canadians in CMBO and not the Poles in CMBB?</font> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted March 1, 2002 Share Posted March 1, 2002 Originally posted by Pak40: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Moon: As far as I know (Steve would be able to give a lot more details about this), Skipper is correct. Polish troops in CMBB would be largely only different from the regular Russian formations by their voices, so there is little gain having to create a whole new sound set for the Poles vs. I agree with this, however, BTS did model the Canadians which really are no different than the British. The uniforms may be a little different but the equipment and TOE are largely the same. So why model the Canadians in CMBO and not the Poles in CMBB?</font> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kwazydog Posted March 1, 2002 Share Posted March 1, 2002 Originally posted by Big Time Software: The Poles will be in CMBB. Repeat WILL BE in CMBB. CharlesHey Guys, lets take the time to read Charles's first post he has had time to make in the past 10 months...it should put an end to this debate Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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