CMBB: Which Tank entices you the most?

[THumpre]

I'm looking forward to watching a platoon of tanks(either side, any type) advancing on a position, taking fire from some hidden ATG and losing their nerve and trying to retreat out of harm's way. I watched a inky-dinky 37mm nearly drive off a plt. of T34s... it was great.

[audace]

I've always liked to play the role of the underdog, so in this case too, I really am waiting desperately to fight with some L.3 light tanks.

Well, just calling it a "tank" is a bit too much.

I really don't know why some of our engeneers and Army staff officers thought that a "tank" this size could win a war, or could be used against a modern enemy.

We should have used this one instead...

[ August 19, 2002, 04:51 PM: Message edited by: audace ]

[apex]

Brummbär and Ferdinands working as a team.

apex

[Vergeltungswaffe]

With covered arc and engage armor only to help out with the turret rotation speed, I suspect Tiger will be quite fun in 1943.

[LightningWar]

#1. Ferdinands

#2. ISU-152

#3. Joespeph Stalin 2

I am actually much more interested in the way AT guns will not be so easy to spot. And once spot everything this side of the Dnieper river attacks it immediately

-LW

[ August 19, 2002, 05:35 PM: Message edited by: LightningWar ]

[audace]

This is the L.6/40, used on the Eastern front too.

Another crap tank though.

L.6/40 stands for= (L)ight tank (6)tons/ 1940

L.3, Light tank of 3 tons

M.13 , Medium tank 13 tons etc.

M13 and M14 weren't used on the Eastern front.

[Chad Harrison]

I got out my old Advaned squad leader rule book today and fliped through the OOB vehicles for 1941-2. No or little armour, and light guns. It will be like having a lot Puma's against Greyhounds in a way! I also look forward to those battles, because then you dont have uber tanks rolling around, destroying everything in thier path. An you can even knock one out with an ATR!

All right Beta Testers/Those who have seen CMBB, how well do the ATR's work? Seems like someone said that they are only partially effective. Lots of hits, but no KO's.

Chad Harrison

[MrSpkr]

Originally posted by Chad Harrison:

I got out my old Advaned squad leader rule book today and fliped through the OOB vehicles for 1941-2. No or little armour, and light guns. It will be like having a lot Puma's against Greyhounds in a way! I also look forward to those battles, because then you dont have uber tanks rolling around, destroying everything in thier path. An you can even knock one out with an ATR!

All right Beta Testers/Those who have seen CMBB, how well do the ATR's work? Seems like someone said that they are only partially effective. Lots of hits, but no KO's.

Chad Harrison

I saw the ATRs. I used the ATRs. The ATRs suck pretty hard against any vehicle with decent CENSORED. The only way they will get a kill is if you can convince the crew to abandon the vehicle. I got penetration after penetration on various lightly armored vehicles, but no kills.

On the flip side, it took forever for the Germans to locate my ATR teams, so they lasted a while. Overall, though, I'd rather have a light gun.

Steve

[xerxes]

Doctrine was that you needed to hit with multiple ATRs at the same time. Quite unlike the serious AT systems later in the war. I would expect that immobilizations would be much more common then knockouts. I'm looking forward to the early war ATR times. Range should have a big impact on effectiveness since the ATRs were aimed at specific parts of the targets.

[MrSpkr]

Originally posted by xerxes:

Doctrine was that you needed to hit with multiple ATRs at the same time. Quite unlike the serious AT systems later in the war. I would expect that immobilizations would be much more common then knockouts. I'm looking forward to the early war ATR times. Range should have a big impact on effectiveness since the ATRs were aimed at specific parts of the targets.

I was using two or three of the things at ranges of 120m or less against stationary targets. I even got several wheel hits, but no immobilizations.

My teams were not even detected, let alone fired upon, for several turns, and were putting out a pretty high rate of fire.

I'm pretty sure the scenario was dated spring or early summer, 1942.

Steve

[ August 20, 2002, 09:21 AM: Message edited by: MrSpkr ]

[MikeT]

Audace, hello been a long time.

About Italian tanks I understand that early Italian tank design was influenced by the roads of Italy, which were single lane roads a holdover from Rennaisance times, and common tactical armor doctrine that tanks supported infantry assaults. The L3 was really just a mobile MG pillbox that provided covering fire while the infantry deployed.

Now other Italian armor also suffered due to the roads in Italy. However the armor quality of Italian armor was the most curious point for me. It seems the British in Africa reported that even if the AP shot didn't pierce the armor it would shatter/split the armor. Very difficult to carry on an attack when you can see through the side armor.

About ATRs, I agree about mobility shots. If you cannot destory the tank you can certainly disable it allowing teams to clear up the mess at night. One curious point, early US M2 .50 cal HMGs had a single shot mode for anti tank work.

MikeT

[Silvio Manuel]

I look fwd to:

Germans: 88mm guns (esp. Nashorn) really terrorizing at long range...and why not the Jagdtiger blasting away from 3km or so. New one: early StuGs, I guess.

Sovs: SU-100! All SU's really, I dig SP guns.

[ August 20, 2002, 08:27 PM: Message edited by: Silvio Manuel ]

[Pzman]

Maybe I am crazy but, I think I will be fun to have 6 Panzer III's running around 1 T-34, in 1941 anyway...

[killmore]

I want T-44!

T-44 vs Panter - now thats interesting

[stalingrd]

It's the KV-2 in 1941 - park & shoot.. watch the shacks crumble!!

[audace]

Hi MikeT, really a long time!

Yes, I've read that basically we thought that a "future war" could very possibly be fought in the Alpin mountains, and that's why L.3 and M.13 tanks had narrow tracks.

What I don't understand is why we didn't develop a tank type to be used in North Africa.

The P40 was almost ready by the end of 1940, and I really think it would have had a good impact in Lybia and Egypt at that time, with its good armament.

But yet, there were problems with its engine, and its development was delayed until 1943, something unbeliavable, and of course nobody paid for that.

Italian tanks' armour was very bad, brittle and prone to splitting apart when it, even if there wasn't a penetration as you said.

And if by chance it didn't split, rivets flew on the inside injuring or killing its crew.

There was almost no chance of survival if the tank was hit.

In a great book I have, about an M13 commander experience during the Greek campaign, the writer remembers when they went to Ansaldo machinery in Genoa to take on their new M13 tanks.

There was this colonel who instructed the new crews about the tank, and it's interesting to note that even at that time, before the tanks themselves were being engaged, their faults were already known.

Here it's the quote:

"...Fire and movement, and breakthrough if that's achievable. Go tightly against your enemy until it collapse. That's the way to fight in a Medium tank.

So, even if the armour is vertical and built of cemented steel, go on and fight.

The power of the tank is in its fire and in its manouver and you have to be demons in these M13s.

Remember: never stop in a fight.

Eventual "stops" have to be dynamics, so other tanks can go on and fire on the enemy before it's your turn.

Stopped tank, dead tank.

And forward, always forward; first gear, second, third and fourth.

Enemy tanks, artillery pieces or anti-tanks guns ahead of you? Fire as soon as possible , one shot after the other, without fear. The first who fires, wins. You shouldn't let the enemy fire before you. If the enemy is faster, you are hit and knocked out..."

There are some very nice pictures that shows some action, some penetration shots on M13s by 37mm anti tank guns etc.

The writer's tank was knocked out finally, by a single 37mm shell that killed the machine gunner and the pilot.

Indeed, one must have been real corageous to fight in these coffins.

[ August 20, 2002, 06:30 PM: Message edited by: audace ]

[manchildstein (ii)]

early war german recon, then with tank reinforcements, say in the south where the fighting was reportedly tougher early on (more t-34s?)... say the recon detachment has to take a town/bridge and they've radioed division that the area is secured... pzIIIs and 38Ts are on the way... but the recon has to hold out for 15-20 minutes against furious local counterattacks... tanks show up with infantry in armored carriers... too late or right on time?

a scenario representing liebstandarte regiment near the crimea in 1941... so there can be 37mm trucks... and of course elite infantry with 60 ammo in armored halftracks... too bad about no motorcycles in the game...

su 152

brumbar and elephant together in '44...

oh and the bt series in '41... talk about 'cavalry charges...' it's got to be a wet dream or somefink for the dudes who are currently using swarms of m8 hmc... lots of firepower (45mm 'l' and 76mm 'short' was decent in summer of '41) and speed with no armor... that's what cavalry should be all about... speed (and firepower) kills...

[ August 20, 2002, 08:12 PM: Message edited by: manchildstein II ]

[Sgt. Schultz]

PzIIIE and Pz38(t) ... I want a swarm of 'em.

[Jack Carr]

The Ferdinand!

[Guest Mike]

Originally posted by killmore:

I want T-44!

T-44 vs Panter - now thats interesting

No T44's - they never saw combat I believe.......but whether they did or not I think it's been said that they aren't there.

[Guest Mike]

Originally posted by stalingrd:

It's the KV-2 in 1941 - park & shoot.. watch the shacks crumble!!

I tried one of them - a 150 IG blasted it off the map after it fired 1 round (to no effect)!!

[Redwolf]

Originally posted by manchildstein II:

brumbar and elephant together in '44...

I don't think that is going to happen in 1944. If I followed correctly, BTS will limit availablity of the Ferdinand to historical Eastern front appearings,w hich would be Kursk and very late in 1945. In between they hung out in Italy.

Brummbär or Brummbaer will rock, though.

[ August 21, 2002, 10:28 AM: Message edited by: redwolf ]

[mensch]

somefink like this I would have with.. um white wine.

Elefants supported with StuG IIIs all the way baby!!

[Redwolf]

Originally posted by Mike:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by stalingrd:

It's the KV-2 in 1941 - park & shoot.. watch the shacks crumble!!

I tried one of them - a 150 IG blasted it off the map after it fired 1 round (to no effect)!! </font>

[MikeyD]

As to the Ferdi/Brumbar in 44 question:

Thought the famous Ferdi/Elefant-equipped 653rd (is that the number?) was transferred to Italy, I've heard people say that other Ferdi/Elefant units (I'm thinking of them as different versions of the same vehicle) were on the Eastern Front right through 45.

So theoretically you should be able to play with Ferdi/Elefants and Brumbers to your heart's content. One thing, though. CMBB prices their vehicles according to rarity associated with date and region. An Elefant in 1944 might be a touch expensive to purchase for a game compared to a pile-o-Stugs.