Fire on the Mountain

[MrSpkr]

Two words: hated it! (as did my opponent)

SPOILER ALERT!

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

The German setup in this was very tough in that much of the support weapon items had to be situated in wooded areas, making them easy to kill with treebursts.

The German forces attacking the hill in the center and the hedgerow villa on the right were inadequate, particularly in light of the massive Allied air support elements (which destroyed both my attacks). Neither could receive proper supporting fire due to the poor terrain options available to the supporting guns and recoilless rifles.

I did enjoy destroying 60% of that convoy with a single platoon -- that was mighty fun.

Overall, though, I'd rather have a root canal than endure that scenario again.

Steve

P.S. Did anyone else find the rockets (2 batteries) totally and completely USELESS?

[ September 27, 2002, 11:39 AM: Message edited by: MrSpkr ]

[Redwolf]

The French had air support? I didn't even notice...

[MrSpkr]

Yes -- and the strafing runs seemed to break up my infantry attacks just as they were about to succeed...

Three times I had a viable force ready to overrun the center hill -- three times I was strafed and the survivors fled downhill with morale problems.

Twice, I had maneuvered the reinforcements entering on teh right into position to overrun the French flanks position in the hedgerow villa. Twice, strafing/bomb runs scattered my troops.

Steve

[Treeburst155]

Air support and variable reinforcement entry time are two sources of luck in scenarios. We have decided to avoid these things in future tourneys.

I'm not sure there were any variable reinforcement entrances in this tourney, but there won't be in the future.

I lost troops and halftracks to my own air support in one game of FOM that I finished. For several turns I thought it was his air-support.

FOM was a scenario loaded with problems for both sides. Reinforcements with no ammo, difficult terrain and more. I liked it as the French. It was one crisis after another.

Treeburst155 out.

[ September 27, 2002, 12:09 PM: Message edited by: Treeburst155 ]

[Holien]

IMO...

One of the best scenarios I have ever played...

Well balanced and caused me some acute moments.

I played the Germans and the placement of the guns took some time. I only lost 2 (if I remember correctly) to White4.

I managed to nobble a Sherman and a fair portion of the convoy.

My rockets wrought havoc on me and a bit on White4.

His airforce saved his ass from a massive beating as a bomb too out 30 men in one go and meant I could not take the main hill. I did however contest it with what I had left.

The village on the right flank fell fairly quickly and I think that was more due to White4 putting his men on the second floor of the buildings and being nobbled by my guns.

The ambush was sublime and I was cursing jamming HMG's.

A great game and while airpower can throw off the balance I was still able to recover with what I had.

My mistake was putting too many men on the attack on the village.

FWIIW....

H

[kunstler]

I hated this scenario as well. It was like fighting wearing a straight jacket: the choices seemed so limited/forced.

From the setup, I was immediately suspicous about my attack orders: I played German, but I had a major victory flag already in my possession, and there were two minor only half way into the map. I thought this would be one of those unbalanced scenarios where my attack would turn into a defense.

Stripped the defenses on the left save the platoon and a machine gun (so my convoy massacre was much less satisfying than most), and set up my guns out of direct fire from his hills, aiming them on the centre hill and the approach to my town.

Treeburst, might as well say now, it was one of these guns that nailed your halftrack and tank. It had a narrow field of fire on your town, and if you backed up out of the shadow of the centre hill, it could take pot shots at your vehicles. Didn't want to say in the hope you'd roll another vehicle over there!

The air attacks blew the heck out of my attack on the centre hill though, so I switched to static fighting until the SS reinforcements arrived. The guys on the right at the village got butchered attacking but the SS helped finally get the town on the last turn.

Ugh. Least favourite of all the scenarios.

kunstler

[Big X]

I really enjoyed this scenario. I was the French and fought my worthy opponent to a draw.

I was strafed repeatedly by my own planes. These were units way in the backfield where no combat was raging.

German rockets took their toll on me, but also on my opponent, and possibly blunted his attack on the center hill. I think we were both surprised at how wide the scatter pattern was.

My only minor gripe was that the scenario doesn't tell the French from which direction the convoy is coming, although it's supposedly a regular event. This led to some hedging of bets on unit placement, as I assumed "something" was going to happen, but I didn't know if it would be from my left or right.

[tabpub]

As opposed to my Polish Push fiasco, this was almost perfect.

The ambush(only 1 platoon with 2 schrecks)was a draw. All the armored elements raced through like Kelly's boys through Mulligan's mortar barrage, suffering nothing. the trucks/jeeps died..only one made it over the bridge. The ambush platoon then mopped up the survivors that were cowering in the opposite woods.

In the center, DF HE and pinpoint onboard mortars preceded a company attack on the hill. The defenders on the crest were handled, but as I moved over the crest/flanks of the hill, hidden units, plus about 10 HTMGs,and mortars hit the company. They withdrew to the friendly slope to be pounded by big artillery for the rest of the game. Enough did survive to control the hill at the end though.

Lucio was the cherry. The 2 smg squads deployed in the rough slope right below the town, with the rifle platoon behind them in the woods.

the 120s plastered the town w/HE and the rifle platoon area fired for 2 turns, then the 81's covered it in smoke and the SMG's entered. The town was in our hands by about turn 7. Losses, about 2 squads worth. The 2 Vg platoons then crossed the road, dealt with the few survivors, and then pressed on cross country toward Casteleone...they were two turns away from there at games end...should have gotten them going sooner...

The SS reinforcement did nothing, but the AA unit was able to deploy near Lucio behind the wall by the wheatfield. The French at that time had grouped the HT's up to apparently support the battle for the hill. this 20 took out 6 HT/AC's in one turn...

Finally, yes, I never noticed any air. don't know if it never showed, or just never saw my units. And 2 long range RCL shots accounted for 2 shermies, the other was gun damaged.

[Holien]

Originally posted by kunstler:

I hated this scenario as well. It was like fighting wearing a straight jacket: the choices seemed so limited/forced.

kunstler

Hi by the fact that you made that choice you seem to be saying that indeed you had quite a few choices?

I know I re-jigged my forces and beefed up the attack on the village which meant that it fell quickly.

I think the choices for the Germans were great. You had a good brief which you had to take at face value.

It was clear from the flags that it would all revolve around the two small ones and the ambush of the convoy.

There was no-way for the Germans to take the rear VL's and only a brave French player would take the german major VL.

Did anyone get the German Major flag?

H

[Holien]

Tabpub....

Sounds like a walk over, to get troops close to the rear VL's....

Astounded!!!

I had a reduced platoon (2 squads, HQ, HMG and Zhreck) in the ambush and it pretty well stopped most of his forces.

The HMG was the key, it jamming allowed vehicles through which otherwise would have been riddled..

I think the French get a tough ride in this game. However if they use the Shermans and 1/2 tracks well it can be a tough game for the Germans.

As for knowing which side the convoy comes on would not make much difference? IMO.

H

[Ali]

I liked the scenario! It was something different. Most of all I enjoyed the fact that I had to use those Haltracks transporting men in to Lucio hill.

Honestly, I don't remember any other scenario that I really HAD to use Haltracks carrying men FAST into another location... That was a nice thouch and those Haltracks did their job perfectly!

I lost my convoy, but surviving escort men (how ironic that THEY did survive!) + 75 mm spotter took out the Axis ambush party! Revenge is sweet

At the end of game I checked one squad in Axis ambush party. It had 30 kills + 2 vehicles or something like that...

Those big rockets killed about 10 men, but wasn't much of a problem.

gotta go now, later...

- Ali

[tabpub]

I agree, the French must make some sort of counter, either at Lucio, or the Hill. My opponent chose to remain in a defensive posture around (insert big center town name here) In review, there was 1-2 platoons of infantry there that could have reinforced early, but didn't. The shermans did not move for the first few turns, so, theRCL had time to connect. If they had moved out to counter, might have been different.

[jwxspoon]

Hi gentlemen,

I have enjoyed and appreciated the AAR's on this scenario! One thing I have seen is that almost every game seemed to have its own set of high and low points. For every one guy that hated the scenario and found it ridiculously unbalanced because he couldn't take Lucio, there was another that took Lucio in 10 turns and came away raving about the scenario (and for each set of AAR's, replace Lucio with another 'major' problem or victory).

The bottom line for me is that is was a hard, anguished, bloody fight for almost all participants that I have read, albeit some were bloodier than others. What I wanted to do here was create something as completely different from the regular CMBO scenario as possible, and to put both players in a difficult tactical situation; something they were not used to.

I appreciate you all for stepping up and giving it your all!

jw

[kunstler]

Holien,

Obviously this scenario suited your tastes, so I'm not sure there is any point in arguing about it with you; I'm glad some thought it was great, agreed with their tastes. It didn't suit mine.

Different strokes for different folks.

kunstler

[ September 27, 2002, 04:46 PM: Message edited by: kunstler ]

[Treeburst155]

Kunstler makes a good point here. I've noticed over the years that people quite often disagree on whether a scenario is "good" or not. Personal preference plays a big part.

Treeburst155 out.

[Ted]

I though it nearly impossible for the Germans.

Every time I opened up with a gun on the mountain it was knocked out after just a couple of shots (that went wide of there mark).

Fighting against tanks, aircraft and heavy artillery with just infantry, who had no AT weapons, and only Infantry guns and recoilless rifles who were a mile away, was just brutal.

The ambush saved the day but then came under fire from tanks and until even they were killed.

It seems if the French pushed a little they could have had the lone flag in the German zone quite easily.

I like to think a late rocket barrage discouraged that.

To do it again I would bring the guns off the mountain and closer to the front.

That aircraft was the capper though. I wasn’t expecting that. Those 500lb’s finished me.

[ September 27, 2002, 05:17 PM: Message edited by: Ted ]

[Holien]

Hi,

No argument intended and I apologise if my post has been mis-understood.

I know that different strokes please different folks.

This is a tough one for the Germans, if you lose your guns then the French can rule the roost if you have an agressive player.

For me it offered plenty of choices in deployment and force split up. I liked the way I could choose where my forces could deploy for the four different phases of the operation.

1. Ambush

2. Big Hill attack

3. Village assualt

4. Defend base

The map design was IMO great as it really gave the engine a great work out and caused you to work hard in understanding the lay of the land.

The village on the hill was almost post card material. (Well if you dream a bit).

The gullies and hedge lines gave plenty of possibilities for attack and defence.

I think White4 would have done better to hide his troops to the last moment and mowed my men down as I tried to breach the hedge line.

However, I think the troop quality might have not allowed him to do this?

Anyway each to their own, no problem with that. Just offering another view.

More the merrier...

H

[Spanish Bombs]

A few quick points as I recall them. As Germans, I couldn't quite take the village on the right, the number of French in the town was too much, and some pretty well placed artillery broke up my initial advance, and the reinforcements were not quite enough.

I never spotted Sodball's mortars, hidden in the treeline on the hill, until the game was over. They did a very good job at keeping my troops broken on the advance up the big hill in the middle. I was able to take the hill, but I suffered a ton of casualties, and the troops there were not capable of doing anything aside from hugging the dirt and hoping to avoid the continued barrage.

Personally, I was pretty happy/impressed with the abilities of the RCLs. Given the extremely long ranges in the scenario, I found them relatively accurate.

Finally, I may have scored a little better with the rockets than some other German players. The first barrage was sent into the big town in French possession, as I think the briefing suggested. Sodball debarked his infantry from the convoy, and sent them scrambling through the woods while my ambush wiped out empty trucks. Anyhow, I took a guess at where and when the French infantry were going to reappear, and I guessed right. The last rocket barrage caught some of his squads in the open, and caused a decent amount of casualties.

Great map, btw. One could almost design a whole campaign based upon the hills and villages.

[Treeburst155]

The medians for FOM, after splitting the points for unclaimed/contested VLs, and with one game remaining are: Allies 41.5, Axis 58.5

The Nabla ranking so far is:

Visom 11.05

Sgt_Gold 10.91

mPisi 10.12

Mikeydz 9.77

Fate 9.77

Ali 9.77

Tabpub 9.39

Jon_L 9.39

THumpre 9.19

John_Kettler 8.78

I_Man 8.56

Kanonier_R 7.09

EASY_V 7.09

Diceman 7.09

Charles 7.09

Zipper 6.53

Tero 6.53

JeffWilders 6.53

MickOZ 5.62

mike8g 5.30

Jim_L 5.30

Ugbash 4.97

Jack_Trap 4.97

Boris 4.27

Juha_A 3.90

J_Porta 3.90

Holien 3.52

Vadr 2.31

Evan_Roberts 2.31

Uber_General 1.88

Spanish_Bombs 1.88

JonS 1.88

Heavy_Drop 1.43

Kunstler 0.49

a1steaks 0.00

Combined_Arms 0.00

Ligur -0.49

Jeb -1.43

von_Lucke -1.88

Strider -1.88

Soddball -1.88

Ozzie_Osbourne -2.31

Cpl_Carrot -2.31

White4 -3.52

The_Capt -3.90

Scheer -3.90

Vaders_Jester -4.27

J_Jelinek -4.97

Bertram -4.97

U8led -5.30

Lopaka -5.30

Wadepm -5.62

Warhammer -6.53

Redwolf -6.53

Hobo -6.53

cuzn -7.09

Tom_Norton -7.09

Saport -7.09

Rat -7.09

Lord_Dragon -8.61

Michael_Dorosh -8.86

MrSpkr -9.36

StuGIII -9.61

Cpt_T -9.61

Ricochet -10.11

RC -10.11

Jarmo -10.11

Bimmer -10.61

Gunnersman -11.86

Big_Dog -12.11

[Treeburst155]

This is what Vader's Jester wrote on the tourney thread. I thought I'd paste it here too.

"Fire on the Mountain:

Units took up their defensive (hidden) positions arond the flags. Stuck mostly to the defalt deployment with a few minor exceptions. Left most of the field guns in thier spots, and put tanks in what I thought were good positions to pummel troops coming in from the opposite hill tops.

First turn, I loose all of my tanks but the Sherman 76. On turn two, I rapidly move him to a hedge near the main road in the center of the map for concealment from the guns. I order several .50 cals and all of my 81mm mortars to open up on the guns that have been spotted.

Not sure how to employ them, I foolishly leave my halftracks exposed to the guns who finish them off after the tanks. A min later, a barrage of arty and rockets comes down to desrtoy any supporting infantry the HTs might have had. Fortuneately, the HTs has no such support, and for the most part, only the vehcile crews are molested by the incoming rounds and rockets.

The .50 cals and 81mm mortars are having little sucess in taking out the hilltop guns. I order my hilltop batteries to assist in the effort. All the field guns I have are destroyed with the counter fire from his guns. He still has suffered no more than two or three guns being lost.

My opponent drops a 105mm prep barrage on the hill with the stone wall to soften up any defences for an assalut by an understrength company. The assualt is a sucess. At the same time, he captures the most forward of the villages to my left flank after a burtal house to house fight. My men are just not able to stomach the horrable fighting, and most of what is left flee for safety. I use the Shermie 76 sitting next to the hedge to harrass the village's new masters.

A large reinforcement arrives to my right flank. It is a motorized (and strangly AMERICAN mechanized) intantry group. There are some supporting GP MG units as well as an A/C or two. I plan to rush the collum to the lost hill and village, and issure the appropreate orders. On the next turn however, a 105mm barrage comes down on them and turns the whole thing into a clusterf***! Troops abandon their transports as many explode into flames. It was the best use of artillery in CM I have ever seen. Anyone that played the French knew how big that reinforcement was. My opponent made all but one platoon and A/C die or route within a few turns!

I decide to make a last despirate attempt to capture the flags I have lost. I order my 81mm and 105mm spotters to drop everything they have on the stone wall hill. I then use my Sherm 76, the last halftrack, the last A/C, and about a platton of men to contest the village on my left flank.

After the arty runs dry, I order a platoon to mop up on the stone-wall hill. To my suprise, the massive drop did almost nothing to the defenders! My platoon is routed in a firefight that had a slight advantage towards his men.

The second assault force makes their attempt on the village. However, the troops are too shaken to begin with, and the run when the Germans say "boo." The 76 is Ko'ed by a 20mm flack at close range, but I am able to get the HT and A/C in without dying. They are able to contest the flag when the battle ends.

Resutls: A heafty victory for my Axis opponent. It was the attrition he handed to me that did me in more than the flags. I learned some valuable lessions on deployment."

[CombinedArms]

I just want to say that--though I don't want to quarrel with those who didn't enjoy it-- I agree with Holien that this is a terrific scenario. At least I found it a lot of fun to play from the Axis side.

I thought it had a terrific briefing, an amazing map, a really interesting series of interlocking "combat missions" and a real sense of ebb and flow--there were times when I really had the initiative and times when I had to struggle to pull things back together.

I was interested to see that some players from the French side enjoyed it, too. The French seem to have a truly tough job, needing to react to a series of cigars that explode in their face, one after the other--but then the Axis must also face a series of unpleasant surprises: those fighter bombers, the hidden mortars, hidden guns, FOs, etc., etc. There's an awful lot of tactical detail packed into this one scenario.

[Frunze]

Evil. But good. I won, as Germans, but took too many casualties. My opponents (Jazza, replaced by Carrot) played cautiously- I never even saw the tanks - but did make a small counterattack on the middle hill, which got nowhere despite the hash his arty had made of the forces on that hill.

I also found my guns didn't survive long, except one 75mm that musta been out of LOS of the mortars. Foxholes would be nice.

I used the rockets on the middle hill, which worked a little, but I think I shoulda used 'em on the town as the briefing suggested. The reinforcement rockets, I did target on the town, and found out after I killed a Sherman.

I took both the hill and Lucio early, didn't worry much about defending the town I started with, and had a medium-successful ambush of the convoy. I setup one gun to supporting the ambush, but it didn't do that much - fixated on an MG on the hill, dammit, then died after a couple turns. A couple halftracks actually made it across the bridge.

I found my reinforcements had nothing to do, since I'd already taken Lucio (the briefing suggested it was a good idea to take it before the showed up). I tried to take a couple more towns, but no time to even get near 'em.

[Kanonier Reichmann]

This was a fascinating scenario that presented all sort of challenges, especially the setup. I decided to pretty much use the force split up the Germans were dealt in terms of where they should be placed but obviously tinkered a bit with the placements. One big dissappointment for me was that the two Volksgrenadier platoons that I placed at the foot of the hill to Lucio were spotted right from the outset by a lone scouting Bazooka team and so my element of surprise was gone right from the outset.

Due to this situation I probably panicked a bit and decided to try and take on Lucio without the element of surprise, since the briefing suggested it would be wise to do so before the Panzergrenadier re-inforcements arrived. BIG MISTAKE! They ended up getting slaughtered as the defending French troops were masterfully held back from firing too soon (no doubt through judicious use of ambush markers) and the full two platoons were basically slaughtered for no figgin result!

In my defence, I felt I had to move when I did as I could see a platoons worth of halftracks laden with troops coming from Castelano (sp?) and heading towards Lucio full bore so I thought now or never. The problem was the complete lack of supporting fire from ny gun assets as I felt I had to keep them hidden from likely mortar positions from across the valley. When the 76mm armed Sherman also decided to appear into the scattered trees to the right of Lucio (from my perspective) I was able to finally open up with the 75mm RCL and the 75mm Inf. Gun to take it out. still, I thought it a very poor trade for the loss of basically 2 whole platoons worth of smg armed troops.

Things started to pick up on my left flank when I was also able to remove Jeff Wilder's pesky 75mm armed Sherman situated on the hill above the "ambush zone" on the turn his re-inforcements arrived. I had held back a 105mm RCL in ambush just waiting for the re-inforcements we just knew were going to rock up at one stage or another, with the view to unmask it on the relavent turn to take out the Sherman and prevent it from interdicting my ambush too much. It achieved that part but not much else since it was promptly destroyed by the third remaining Sherman that had been judiciously placed well back in scattered trees half way up the hill and behind Castelano. Well out of range of any of my RCL's!

The ambush went well with 2 Trucks, 2 Halftracks, all 3 Jeeps and the 2 supporting light AFV's destroyed. Funnily enough, my Rocket spotter had a hand in this destruction by luckily dropping some of its load into the general area without hitting my 2 squads and Panzerschrecks there in the woods yet being responsible for taking out 2 jeeps and a halftrack from memory. Blind luck I'd suggest as it was always a risky proposition from my point of view.

From there on in I basically had to bide my time until the re-inforcing Pzgrenadiers arrived and hope it would be sufficient to take on Lucio. I had decided from the outset not to tackle the central hill with my company of Gebirgsjagers until the last 8 turns or so, hoping that all my opponents artillery would be used up by then. The plan kind of worked although the arrival of the TWO (I'm pretty sure, it sure seemed like the equivalent of two) fighter bombers messed me up a bit in terms of blasting my Pzgrenadier re-inforcements on the very turn they arrived as well as continually stafing my Gebirgsjagers as they made their approach to the hill, luckily minus their bombload though.

As it turned out, my Pzgrenadiers were able to mostly climb the hill into Lucio without too many casualties due to the working over I had been giving to the town with my 75mm & 105mm RCL's (the 105mm RCL was doing it from my far left flank on top of the mountain, approximately 1 km away). The timing of the twin assault onto the 2 small objective flags worked out in my favour in the end, probably more by good luck than good management, and I was able to secure them both on the last turn with most of the French troops in the area either panicked or routed from the vicinity. It ended up being a tactical victory to the Germans, but only just.

From my perspective, I found the game both intensely frustrating and yet somehow alluring to the point where you just had to catch the next turn a.s.a.p. I seemed to go from one low to a high then to another low etc, almost turn by turn. I certainly thoroughly commend the scenario designer for making such a challenging and intensive scenario with the obvious effort put into the map design well appreciated.

Regards

Jim R.

[Phantom Captain]

Ok,

From what I remeber.(disclaimer) I played as the germans.

This was a very hard and brutal slugfest. The map was superb but presented horrible difficulties for me at least.

I too started with a rocket barrage on the village and I don't recall it being too successful.

My AT support on the ridges behind me opened up too soon in retrospect, most were lost almost immediately with little damage done to the french. I may have scored one kill on a sherman but I don't quite remember. (finished this one about two months ago.)

The ambush on the convoy was very successful for me though. I remember knocking almost all of it out, maybe leaving a halftrack or two to run the gauntlet. Otherwise, most were destroyed and my platoon handily suppressed and routed the french troops that cowered in the woods. Actually later this same platoon crossed back across the river and moved up into defensive positions in the town I held. Sorry don't remember place names at the moment.

My assault on the hill in the middle was a disaster. I pounded the crest with mortar fire for a good three minutes I believe, yet when I did move in for the trek up the hill my men were routed and broken by air and mortar assault. Plus my opponent still had an mg or two that survived the bombardment. This shattered platoon slowly crawled and stumbled their way into the village to take up defensive positions in what little strength they had left. They would play a role later when the french tried to roll on the village with a sherman and a halftrack (greyhound possibly?). The surviving panzerschrek did manage to knock out the assaulting AFV, but ran out of ammo before the sherman closed.

My assault on the village to the right was a very brutal violent slugfest with the french in town. It was very back and forth, my opponent even mortarted inside his perimeter when my reinforcements showed up and punched into the village. At battle end he still held the inside half of this small village while I held the map edge side. My men beat up and out of ammo could not continue the punch.

I lost, final score was 48 to 40. I think this score did represent the awful slugfest that this one was. I liked the scenario because of the headache it gave me but don't think I would want to play this one again. It was just so much going on at once and as someone said earlier, one crisis after another. Very very challenging.

[John Kettler]

Have just posted my long AAR for this battle to the

RoW II AAR Thread.

Regards,

John Kettler