Air support(how?!!)

[Jaffaman]

Can anybody tell me how I can call in air support as I,ve been on a couple of scenario's where the briefing tells me I can have air support but I can't seem to figure out how to call it in?

[Kobal2]

You don't "call air support", it just...happens

It's the main difference between arty and airplanes : arty you target just like any other unit, airplanes just roam the field, coming in at random (and shooting at random too just kidding, but they're quite prone to friendly fire when they're not experienced)

[Kobal2]

Oh, also, depending on the weather, they may not come at all : fog, rain, snow equal lost points.

But with all their problems, planes can be very usefull, especially when you don't have any armor. It's a quite reliable tactic to use an all infantry force with a couple of green antitank planes (if you don't have tanks, they can't shoot them, can they ?)

That, and they see the whole map, so unlike arty that has to be timed well and is unreliable at best when fired beyond LOS, they can blow up the ennemy before it has a chance to do anything.

[securityguard]

Also, just a random tip, if you buy a plane in a Quick Battle do not get anything under a 'crack' unless you're forced to. Anything under Veteran status will cause friendly fire unless you're lucky. Even buying Vet planes can be risky. However a 'Crack' plane is incredibly useful, usually lobbing a bomb right into armor and strafing with all its strength. It can be a game breaker and it usually is.

[Kobal2]

(has anyone tried replacing AFVs with planes alltogether ? This way, even Regular planes couldn't get into friendly firing)

[junk2drive]

i am testing an op right now that has infantry only for axis and the planes have only bombed and strafed the allied guns.

[Shmavis]

Air support really came in handy when I played "Borisovka Station". I was playing as Germans vs. AI and had already lost both of my 88s when 1 or 2 HS 139s(?) took out about 10 Soviet tanks, saving the day. Did I get lucky or is this how the scenario usually plays out?

[Slappy]

Never played that one.

I know that planes tend to target AFVs as a first priority and that they are terrible at determining which side those AFVs are on. They also target AFVs in the open with a huge bias. They'll coninue to strafe dead AFVs in the open for turn after turn while ignoring those in scattered trees or even brush.

The best situation for air support is when you have no AFVs, your opponent has a ton and the map is very open. It sounds like this is exactly what you had.

[tools4fools]

"Pay and Pray" is all that Air Support is about.

Those Flyboys do really hit with their bombs, makes me wonder why they invented laser guided ones since WWII...

Only problem is you never know if they will hit your own or your opponent's...

[flamingknives]

Originally posted by Shmavis:

Air support really came in handy when I played "Borisovka Station". I was playing as Germans vs. AI and had already lost both of my 88s when 1 or 2 HS 139s(?) took out about 10 Soviet tanks, saving the day. Did I get lucky or is this how the scenario usually plays out?

The Henschels usually balance out the Soviet armour advantage in that one - If the Soviets don't get their infantry across before the Henschels turn up, the Germans will most likely win.

[Joachim]

Originally posted by Kobal2:

(has anyone tried replacing AFVs with planes alltogether ? This way, even Regular planes couldn't get into friendly firing)

**** SPOILER ALERT for Andreas

In a PBEM scenario I have vets only, so I guess all of my planes are vet, too. A StuKa targetted my own PaK. Tough luck the inf plt with my best commander was close. All gone. Enemy forces consist of inf and guns (until now). My own is inf, guns and trucks.

IMHO It helps if the enemy has AFVs in the open and you have none.

[Dschugaschwili]

Originally posted by tools4fools:

Those Flyboys do really hit with their bombs, makes me wonder why they invented laser guided ones since WWII...

Perhaps because with laser guided bombs, you don't have to fly so low that you can be shot down with a slingshot...

Dschugaschwili

[Kai_Lae]

My problem with air support is that as noted the aircraft have a persistant habit of attacking your own troops. This happens so often that I think it, while maybe not a bug, is at least a poorly designed feature. If aircraft actually attacked the wrong side this often they would have never been used for close support of troops.

I think the reasons for this problem have to do with the fact that many of the meathods for direction of CAS are not implimented in the game. It might be true if the aircraft is sent into the combat area with no contact with the ground or any direction whatsoever that you could see results like this. However, this is where foward air controllers come in, panels on the ground, direction that "beyond this point everyone is the enemy", etc. What exists now is IMO identical to undirected artillery fire.

Perhaps someone could shine a light on this subject with the manner of air control used by the warring powers in WW2? I did once read Hans Ulrich Rudel's account of WW2 but that was some time ago, and I don't really want to read it again to hear about German CAS procedures . Again it seems to me that this feature isn't as well designed as it could be.

[tar]

I think there is a strong feeling that having your aircraft arrive before you have really spotted any of the enemy is a big disadvantage. This is particularly the case if you have vehicles and the enemy doesn't, or at least doesn't have any spotted vehicles.

In those cases, friendly fire incidents seem to be rather numerous, certainly a lot more than I recall seeing in CMBO.

[Lucho]

I had a strange experience with Combat Air Support:

I played as Germans against the U.S. AI the scenario "(FGM)-CMAK-Move-it or Lose". It is a recreation of an old CMBO battle. Involved were in the later part of the battle even some P-51H Mustangs. These little buggers kept attacking my forces although the sky was covered!

I know that air support can only be bought with the preferences set to clear. But how come that they fly in bad sighting and weather conditions?

Maybe it is possible to buy CAS, switch the settings to night and have some night shows (tracers at night :cool: ).

[Brent Pollock]

Hmmm...don't have access to the rule book right now. Maybe Overcast prevents you from buying in a QB, but not flying if selected in the Editor? Same might go for dawn or dusk. It could also be that night/rain/fog/falling snow prevent planes flying even if selected in the Editor?

Also, I think you may buy aircraft if the weather is set to Random in a QB, you just risk not being able to have it show up if the weather's lousy.

[dieseltaylor]

Kai-Lae

There are quite a few threads already on the forums about CAS with many lists of historical FF incidents, and many examples of useful air attacks within the game.........

I like it, I use it and have very very rarely suffered from FF.

[Vixen]

I've only rarely got attacked by my own planes. This is particularily true in medium-large map games or if the air support comes in early. All bets are off when you start mixing in with the enemy though.

[mrpwase]

One thing I find useful about CAS (despite the obvious benefit of FF :S) is that if you don't know where the enemy's AFVs are, but then one of your planes flies over and rocket attacks a seemingly empty location in/near the enemy's setup zone, you know that there's an enemy something there that's big and obvious enough to provoke an air attack. It's useful for finding out the vague location of the enemy vehicles, and you can even predict the enemy's plan of attack - unless the enemy vehicle is destroyed. You win either way.

[Redwolf]

Originally posted by mrpwase:

One thing I find useful about CAS (despite the obvious benefit of FF :S) is that if you don't know where the enemy's AFVs are, but then one of your planes flies over and rocket attacks a seemingly empty location in/near the enemy's setup zone, you know that there's an enemy something there that's big and obvious enough to provoke an air attack.

Not if the opponent was smart and parked a truck to get rid of the airplanes. Works better than AA guns.

[mrpwase]

Sadly, yes. One of the few things trucks are good for. On the other hand, 88mm flaks rarely seem to have time to fire at aircraft - they're too tank-busting orientated, it seems.

On a mostly unrelated topic, 88mm flaks seem to be the most versatile AA gun. They're good at taking down large, slow aircraft, they can scare lighter aircraft away, they can take out the most heavily armoured tanks easily, and they're also useful as artillery - just replace the flak shells with HE shells and you have an 88mm artillery piece.

[Spears]

1 or 2 88`s wouldnt scare me or rune OTOH, a battery would, not in cmak. Plus if that gun was positioned for the anti-tank role, why would it pointless fire a few shots and reveal itself? Especially in cmak when u get 81mm landing all over you 1 minute later.