John Kettler Posted April 9, 2003 Share Posted April 9, 2003 Since I'm planning on talking to Apple's marketing department soon, I wanted to make sure my story's straight. As I understand it, CMBO will run under Classic in OS X because the graphic loads are doable under software emulation, but CMBB is simply too much and requires RAVE, which Apple removed from its original OS X software design before OS X was released and after CMBB's code was finished. CMBB therefore can't run at all under OS X. Nor will CMAK, since it shares the same game engine. To compound matters, Apple later announced that most of its new production computers would be bootable in OS X only effective 2003. Effectively, this orphaned many players by limiting them to either older dual OS Macs and iMacs, forcing them onto iBooks, E-macs or a pricey special order dual 1.25 GHz tower configuration if they wanted new machines. Right so far? The impact of this has been to cause some to pass outright on CMBB , some to switch in total frustration to PCs, and some to wait for the new game engine, which presumably will be fully OS X compliant. The situation is costing both BFC and Apple much needed sales. Apple is not getting purchases it otherwise would because the avid fans of CMBB can't run their beloved game on Apple's best machines and therefore refuse to upgrade. I know of at least one person who'd kill for a dual OS 17" Power Book. Am not happy myself that the new 17" iMac is similarly hamstrung. Am planning on talking to a senior marketing type at Apple in hopes of getting RAVE reimplemented in OS X and/or some help on the dual OS front. The present situation benefits neither CMBB Mac users, BFC, the Mac gaming community, nor Apple itself. I also understand that there are serious problems with the Radeon video cards, but don't know the details. Would appreciate help from anyone on making sure what I've said here is right. Regards, John Kettler 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aka_tom_w Posted April 9, 2003 Share Posted April 9, 2003 sorry that no one else has relpied That looks about right. If you check the tech support forum I "bumped" a few of the relevant threads. -tom w [ April 09, 2003, 01:34 PM: Message edited by: aka_tom_w ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aka_tom_w Posted April 9, 2003 Share Posted April 9, 2003 this tech support work around it beyond belief!! :mad: the software bits and drivers you NEED at not freely available and you have to pillage from from another "TomeViewer" where you extract JUST the parts of software you NEED! this is JUST Stupid and it is the Fault of Apple and Nvidia!!!! BUT it doesn't work on the 17 inch iMac! ask them about this while you are at it: Grrrrrr. this kind of craziness drives me NUTS! from: http://www.battlefront.com/cgi-bin/bbs/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=8&t=003389#000012 "Just in case it helps other people, here is how I've solved messed-up texture problem on my iMac G4 15'' flat screen. It was caused by the nvidia drivers v2.6 I had. I've downloaded v3.0 on Apple site (http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=120110 ) However, the install program checks if the computer is a PowerMac and refuses to install on an iMac... So, I've downloaded TomeViewer (http://www.versiontracker.com/moreinfo.fcgi?id=4561&db=mac ) and used it to manually extract the 6 driver files from the v3.0 dsitribution (file 'Tome' found in 'NVIDIA Driver Update:Installer Files: NVIDIA Driver Update:Installer File'). And finally I've copied those files into the "Extentions" folder of the OS 9 System folder and rebooted. And that's it : I've the new drivers and no more problems with CMBB !! MM PS : I think you should try this only if your drivers are lower than v3.0 and I advice you to make a copy of your 6 former driver files before, just in case you want to roll back... " How to: "For the others, here is a more detailed 'how-to' : When file downloaded from Apple site and mounted (should be done automatically), you find on your desktop a disk image containing the install program provided by Apple. The name of this virtual disk is 'NVIDIA driver Update'. Lauch TomeViewer and select menu 'File/Open...'. With the file chooser, go to the desktop, then disk 'NVIDIA driver Update', then folder 'Installer Files', then 'NVIDIA Driver Update' and finally folder 'Installer Files'. Select the file 'Tome' and click 'Open'. A window displaying the 6 driver files should appear. Select all the files (Cmd-a) and click on the upper left icon of the window. Choose the destination folder and click 'All' (if you already have made a copy of your former drivers, you can directly select the 'Extensions' folder of your 'System' folder). That's it. MM " ------------------------------------------------------------------------ BUT no Joy on the 17inch iMac "------------------------------------------------------------------------ Originally posted by chcole: excellent workaround. i have a 15" G4 imac that was having the same problem (mostly just the german troops rendered in technicolor). after installing the new drivers everything is fine. thanks for the info. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ [qb]BUT it doesn't work on a G4 iMac-17".[qb] I think the upgrade drivers are actually too old to run on the new iMac-17 inch (they're version 3.0 instead of 3.5). In any case, when I tried this I got the blue screen of death instead of a working computer. Had to do some fancy tricks to bring my iMac back to life. Just thought I'd better warn everybody." -tom w [ April 09, 2003, 01:39 PM: Message edited by: aka_tom_w ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aka_tom_w Posted April 9, 2003 Share Posted April 9, 2003 Apple OSX hardware compatibility chart this might be handy as well here -tom w [ April 09, 2003, 01:49 PM: Message edited by: aka_tom_w ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aka_tom_w Posted April 9, 2003 Share Posted April 9, 2003 Kmead is also a mac tech geek and may know alot more about the technical issue involved here than myself. AS far I Know it is this simple CMxx needs RAVE MAC OSX DOES NOT support Rave New Macs don't Dual Boot CMxx only loads in OS9x OSX running OS9x "classic" DOES NOT support Rave API calls so the game will NOT run in Classic under OSX. So you need a MAC that you can boot into OS 9x to play and you can't buy those Macs anymore so you are forced to go to the used market :confused: The whole situation is so STUPID it makes me want to buy a FASTER CHEAPER PC! Tell that to the DOLTS at Apple! -tom w [ April 09, 2003, 03:21 PM: Message edited by: aka_tom_w ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andreas Posted April 9, 2003 Share Posted April 9, 2003 Tom is not the only one considering a platform move because of this cock-up by Apple. Chalk me down for one. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warren Peace Posted April 9, 2003 Share Posted April 9, 2003 I'm a mac user, but I bought a PC for CMBB and other games. Actually windows XP is a pretty good OS. Still I use a Mac for work and in my home office. Warren 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-E Posted April 9, 2003 Share Posted April 9, 2003 Originally posted by aka_tom_w: this is JUST Stupid and it is the Fault of AppleSound like you guys can join our club... "Apple ][ Forever Con Job Victims Society" 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wicky Posted April 9, 2003 Share Posted April 9, 2003 3 years ago bought my G4-450-DP Mac to handle CM - but the lack of support, OS and graphic card issues made me reconsider upgrading to new Mac in the last quarter. I won't be considering a new mac till CMX I've already passed that feedback to Apple with no response. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schrullenhaft Posted April 9, 2003 Share Posted April 9, 2003 In my opinion your statements are generally correct. However I don't believe that any single person or group at Apple could really change the course of things as they are now. CM's current Mac incompatibilities doesn't mean the loss of even $100 million in sales to Apple, so our complaints will carry little financial impact. There are some good reasons why Apple is pushing forward on fronts that cause problems for the CM community. It's a wish for better support/compatibility within OS X/Classic (RAVE & video drivers) that would help, but that may still be unattainable. Currently CMBO can work in Classic mode because it can be 'software rendered' at 640x480. CMBB & CMAK can't be software rendered because they require 800x600 minimum resolution and possibly some other issues (downsampling of larger textures ?). Hardware rendering for RAVE is unavailable in Classic for CM's purposes. It appears that the level of RAVE support that Classic has is not up to the version that CM requires (1.5 or 1.6 ?) or that some important RAVE calls just aren't supported properly. I don't know what specific level of RAVE that Classic supports (it may just be one revision level behind CM's requirements). Updating Classic's RAVE support to encompass all calls incorporated into the last revision of RAVE would basically solve the problem for BTS/BFC and could make all the other problems either go away or possibly get taken care of in a quicker manner. However even if Apple would like to offer better RAVE support, they may not be able to accomplish it within a reasonable cost structure. Apple has a notorious history of not supporting game developers to the same extent as seen on the Windows platform. In fact I believe Apple's developer relations doesn't specialize anything (or very little) for game developers. Apple just doesn't see the gaming market as a core concern for them (which is probably accurate). So expecting RAVE support to improve may be a lost cause since it may cost Apple too much money because it may involve a lot of developer time to code support of all the RAVE calls that aren't currently in Classic. Apple has been telling/selling/"evangelizing" developers on using OpenGL for a couple of years now since that is the native Graphics API of OS X (think non-game related here too). For larger game companies (primarily FPS games) OpenGL is something of a godsend since they may have a PC version already coded up in OpenGL, so the work to transition to another API may actually be easier for a majority of them. The hope at the time when annoucements were made about the death of RAVE (which is a statement of no further development of that API - not of it's absolute death) was that it would continue to be supported in Classic (which Apple apparently indicated that it would do). This was the basis that BTS/BFC operated under when CMBO was under development, though it wasn't the biggest concern since OS X wasn't due for several years and OS 9 constitued the current market. But as it turned out full RAVE support just didn't happen. Again not a big deal to the larger game development houses already programming their titles in OpenGL for Windows and possibly other platforms. For smaller development houses like BTS/BFC this was obviously a much bigger problem. Regarding video driver incompatibilities. There may only be so much that Apple can do on this front. I don't believe Apple really has much of a hand in developing drivers for ATI & NVidia. I believe that they just QA them and distribute the updates. It's possible that QA has been discontinued or severely cut back on testing RAVE calls and we're starting to see some major problems with RAVE now (under OS 9.x). Another issue is that OS 9/Classic may be a bit under the radar now for most driver developers who are concentrating on supporting OpenGL and the Aqua interface and very little time on RAVE support. As for Apple's reasoning on eliminating OS 9 boot capability from newer Macs - I'm not sure why. I can only imagine that they are freeing up some ROM code space for other functions or to increase speed of execution AND further pushing the acceptance of OS X. An even bigger reason may be that they don't need to support OS 9 on those platforms anymore - saving future development time and money. It's obviously a hardship on CM'ers, but Apple's progress has almost always been hard on one segment or another in its past. The only way I could see of convincing Apple to change any of its policies is for it to recognize that the gaming community represents a big chunk of sales and it should be among their core interests. But this hasn't been the view at Apple for awhile now and the software sales numbers bear this out (of course this is a bit of a feedback loop since there is little game developer interest for the Mac platform since Apple doesn't sell to that market segment). I'm sure some Apple marketing execs have paid for numbers that break down such markets on the PC already to see if would be worth the effort. But the first real commitment to this market comes in developer support and good gaming APIs. Apparently Apple feels content to leave this at supporting OpenGL only - something that won't help with BTS's current titles. [ April 09, 2003, 02:51 PM: Message edited by: Schrullenhaft ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Måkjager Posted April 9, 2003 Share Posted April 9, 2003 John..regarding the Radeon. I originally bought my DP800 G4 with a top of the line 64MB nVidia GF3 card.......and i found it to be muck in regards to displaying the vehicle textures.....which are not as clear as they should be. I got hold of a OEM Radeon 32MB card for my G4..and it displays the vehicles much much clearer. Regards Måkjager 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tar Posted April 9, 2003 Share Posted April 9, 2003 The only way I could see of convincing Apple to change any of its policies is for it to recognize that the gaming community represents a big chunk of sales and it should be among their core interests. Perhaps the best argument in favor of the gaming market is that computer games seem to stress the hardware limits much more intensely than most productivity applications. The upshot of that is that serious gamers are often forced (or at least enticed) to upgrade their systems much more often than most other users. I'm sure that there are niche markets such as photography and video editting that also stress the hardware, but for surfing the web, writing letters in Word, doing your taxes, etc. machines that are several years old will do just fine. Certainly in my house, the only software I have that wants a bigger machine than I have (350Mhz G3, upgraded video card) are my kid's games. But I'm not really all that inclined to update since it wouldn't help me with the game I really want to play. And my kids are not yet old enough to get jobs in order to buy a computer of their own -- but they would probably want a PC anyway, given the greater and sonner availability of games for that platform. We're still waiting for "Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets" 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aka_tom_w Posted April 9, 2003 Share Posted April 9, 2003 good point Tom -tom w 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gibsonm Posted April 9, 2003 Share Posted April 9, 2003 Hi, Firstly, good luck !!! Secondly the alleged work around for the Nvidia graphics cards doesn't help us PowerBook users because: 1. They have an Radeon ATI card. 2. Its not possible to buy another graghics card and swap it for the existing one. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brujay Posted April 10, 2003 Share Posted April 10, 2003 What in the world is all the gloom about? I recently stated all this in another thread, but it seems like it's necessary to do it again: I have a new 17" flat screen iMac. I know no more about the geeky side of things than the next guy. I do know this. No, CMBB won't run in OS X. And yes, when OS X kicks into Classic mode CMBB still won't run. The solution is bone simple: start up in OS 9, load CMBB there and it runs fine. The only difference is that in long shots, especially on big games, the cursor is a littly mushy. This is probably because of the tight screen resolution. But you get used to it really quickly. And game animation is not affected at all. Furthermore, the game still runs at OS X speed. Where it used to take up to five minutes for the "blue line" to creep across the bottom of the page in large games, it now takes seconds. Apple has not yet abandoned OS 9. It threatens to this year, and when it does Mac purchasers who love CMBB will have two choices: either to buy a Dell (dude!) or to blow their brains out. The choice is a no-brainer (if you get my drift). Now, will somebody tell me how to beat the Krauts in Jahnsfelde (as I think it's called)? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flamingknives Posted April 10, 2003 Share Posted April 10, 2003 so can the new Macs (G4 towers/G4iMac) still boot into OS9? :confused: 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drbassie Posted April 10, 2003 Share Posted April 10, 2003 I head up the Mac dept. here at the publishing company I work for so I had to go through all of this last week. You can still buy some Macs from Apple that WILL boot from OS9, but Apple only makes higher end (dual 1.25 ghz and up) machines that are able to do it. If you can only afford their cheapest machine - single 1 Ghz G4, for $1500, it will ONLY boot OS X. It's pretty obvious they are milking the market for the people that still need OS 9 machines, by only offering OS 9 machines for $1000! more. And there is no reason why they are making OS X-only machines other than they are forcing people onto OS X - even if the software market hasn't fully adapted yet (i.e. Quark!) If you play a lot of games at home, do yourself a favor and get a PC. I realize that Apple has strong supporters ,mainly in the publishing/design community, but when you start getting outside that niche market the Macs start showing their weakness. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mchlstrt Posted April 10, 2003 Share Posted April 10, 2003 There is a Marketing term for people who have a large influence on the perception of others concerning a product (or Political idea or whatever) which I can't think of at the moment. I believe this Game attracts a fair number of those people. Older, informed, etc. And this is THE Game many of them play between bought-a-Mac-specifically-for-this-Work sessions. This & the fact that there's some prestige attached to a Game that is developed (proudly!) on a Mac & has gotten so much praise & so many awards might justify some effort on Apple's part if you can present it to an actual person over there. Like in so many things, an endless stream of numbers & statistics becomes one big blur in the Mind, but if you can 'humanize' one particular case it sometimes gets the attention. It also presents a 'White Knight' opportunity for them. My impression is that CM is one .x level of RAVE emulation away from being 'in' for OSX, & Apple could get a small but deep Market boost for a possibly much smaller amount of technical resources expended. I'd try playing this angle if I were talking directly to someone, I think. strt [ April 10, 2003, 01:04 PM: Message edited by: mchlstrt ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kettler Posted April 13, 2003 Author Share Posted April 13, 2003 Thank you for all the feedback (BFC, where are you?). I appreciate it so much I'd like to ask an additional question. Has anyone run CMBB yet on a new iBook? If so, does the iBook have enough cybernetic horsepower to run the full game (max map, etc.), or is it limited to only small battles? Please advise as to G3 clock speed and RAM in replying. IOTW, does the iBook run the program stock, or does the RAM have to be maxed out, too? I'd imagine even the fastest G3 iBook wouldn't fare anywhere nearly as well as even, say, a 500 MHz G4 tower or earlier PowerBook. Thanks to a friend, I now have a better approach to actually airing our several woes, one which stands a much better chance than the shot in the dark with Apple's marketing department. Will keep you posted. Regards, John Kettler 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kmead Posted April 13, 2003 Share Posted April 13, 2003 My apologies for not replying sooner, this week we were without power for 4 days and I am still catching up from the cleanup. I really don't have much to add, several of you have covered the many issues and points so well. I sent a letter in the past to Apple on this subject (the content of which follows) and received no response. I wish that BFC would weigh in on this, as getting Steve and Charles to specify what is actually missing or failing in the Classic Rave API would be a great help in getting Apple to fix those elements. I am sure they have some small inkling of what is broken. The really frustrating thing (above and beyond it not running under Classic) is that Apple featured CMBO on its web site before X was the "only" Mac OS in town. I do understand Apple's position on no longer developing hardware for OS9. In real terms most of the software needed to do anything is available on OSX now and they want to ensure that anything left moves over soon. Quark is a perfect example of this, they are finally getting off the dime to update their cantankerous dinosaur of an application before they lose all of their marketshare (we have moved over to InDesign, seeya!). Everything else is either capable of running under Classic or is OSX native (even Acrobat is making the change finally). I am responsible for hardware and software for our industrial design group and we have transitioned over to X in the last 2 months. We don't use any OS9 software anymore and have the best network capability and general stability we have ever had with many fewer headaches. Even the IT clowns are tolerant of us since we are basically Unix based. Sadly, I find that I am rarely playing CM anymore due to never actually booting my computer, under X I leave it on for weeks on end in sleep mode rather than shutting down. I do have a G3 Powerbook that runs CMBO nicely and have yet to try CMBB on it as it has only 8mb of Vram. In regards to the current iBooks, the 16 and 32Mb Vram versions should be very capable of running CMBB, the CM series doesn't make use of much of the greater capability of a G4. The 500-800mhz G3s are quite capable of running this stuff just fine. I believe DrAlimantado Member # 7859 a resident of Sweden bought one last fall and has been successful in using it for CMBB. you might contact him. I am considering getting one myself before they are replaced with OSX only versions. I truly hope that this has some effect on Apple, I would truly love to play CM more often than I have of late. I know In any case here is my note to Apple: posted February 14, 2003 03:57 PM ------------------------------------------------------------------------ The following is a note I sent to Apple regarding BFC and CM and OSX compatibility. I apologize to Steve and Charles for volunteering their time and willingness to resolve this issue. I am among a large group of users of software from Battlefront Software. They make several different war games that will not run under Classic under OSX.x. When their products were under development, the Rave API was the standard that Apple used for 3D calls. The two games in question are Combat Mission Beyond Overlord and Combat Mission Barbarossa to Berlin. Unfortunately the Classic Rave API is not capable of executing all the calls in the OS9 Rave API that Battlefront uses, so as a result the software will not display the game under Classic. These are very graphics intensive pieces of software that really ask alot of the system but will run on all Macs running OS9 and have at least 8mb of video ram. What is particularly galling is that these games were developed on a Mac and ported to Windows, aside from running in a different operating system they are identical in look and operation. Except that they cannot run under Classic under OSX but can run on all versions of MSW since W95. They are extremely popular in the wargaming community and in the sim community. Both the Mac and the MSW version have garnered rave reviews in the gaming community: PC Gamer 94%, IGN.com 9.0, Gamespy 94%, Wargamer.com Award of Excellence, Military Gamer 9.5, Strategy Gaming Online 9.7, Gameplanet 4.5 of 5, UGO an A+, PC Gaming 9 of 10, Gamzone online 8.6, SimHQ.com highly recommended, CombatSim.com Top Pick, Inside Mac Games an 8.0. I am one of over 11000 active members of their forums and I am one of the Mac guru's for trouble shooting there, its embarrassing to have such a great piece of software not run under X. I know for a fact that many members of the comunity are now delaying future purchases of Apple hardware as they will not be able to use this excellent software on a new Mac. We all understand and support Apple's migration strategy to have X be the standard with legacy products running in Classic, sadly due to changes in the API this software won't. I am sure that the principals of Battlefront, Steve Grammont or Charles Moylan would be extremely pleased to work with Apple to assure that yet another great piece of software will run under Classic and the Classic Rave API. Charles is the programmer of this software and would be able to delineate what is the issue and what calls need to be implemented/improved under Classic Rave to return the functionality of non Classic Rave. By the way, my recently purchased MDD 867 is an excellent computer that meets most all my needs. Great job! Thank you; Karl Mead Good luck and thank you for making this contact with Apple. [ April 13, 2003, 05:19 PM: Message edited by: kmead ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laxx Posted April 14, 2003 Share Posted April 14, 2003 My 2 cents worth: - i have no hang-ups on not being able to run CMBB under OSX. CMBB series came around before OSX was fully adopted. - How can it be reasonable for Apple to support retro-API when they have fully endorsed OpenGL as the Graphic standards ? How can it be reasonable for BFC to rewrite the game engine as a stop gap measure before CMXX version 3 comes out ? - So what can we do about it. Buy a PC ? Not for me coz I am a fanatical mac fan and doan endorse microsoft. Well, the other choices are: to run under OS9, it is NOT that hard to reboot, it is Faster than emulated mode. What about newer Macs who cannot boot OS 9 ? Well, it is possible to boot OS9 on the newer macs, you just have to replace the software ROM in the OS9 to make it work (quoted verbatim): "Apple recently posted a new file to its private Apple Service Provider web page (accessible only by account-holding Apple technicians and resellers) titled "MacTest Pro for Power Mac G4 (March 2003) Version 7.8.1 supports all iMac (Flat Panel) 15 inch systems only." The file is a CD image which can be downloaded and burned, then used as a startup disk. Testing in "Mac OS X-only" flat panel iMac system revealed that the image properly booted Mac OS 9. Users can then copy a stripped-down Mac OS 9 system folder to their hard drive, and select it with the "Startup Disk" System Preferences pane, delivering a Mac OS 9 bootable internal disk. It appears that a new MacOS ROM file (ver. 9.8.1) allows booting from the image. Of course, this solution is only readily accessible by Mac service providers, but it shows that Mac OS 9 boots are not impossible on Apple's new machines. " Now, if this is a Problem for those out there, let me Offer this to ya: I will create a bootable CD for OS9 for newer 2003 Macs out there. Now OS9.22 is freely downloadable from Apple, so there is no copyright issues. With this CD, one could boot and create your own Bootable OS9 partition. Any takers ? Currently, ASAIknow, only the PB12, PB17 and the dual-mirrors cannot run OS9. cheers! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gyrene Posted April 14, 2003 Share Posted April 14, 2003 Laxx: I might have to abuse my Apple connections and get a hold of that MacTest cd and try it out on one of the new OS X only Macs at work. There are software packages that facilitate the conversion of Direct X to Open GL on the Mac, I wonder if BFC has looked into using them? MacDX is a good example. I no longer buy any Mac software that isn't OS X native and lately all my computer game dollars have been going to my Windows computer. Gyrene 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kettler Posted April 15, 2003 Author Share Posted April 15, 2003 laxx and Gyrene, Your news is both amazing and heartening. Please report soonest on your test results. Will sit tight on contacting anyone until you check in. Regards, John Kettler 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Måkjager Posted April 15, 2003 Share Posted April 15, 2003 John...i bought a 800mHz iBook with dvd/cd-rw , 640MB RAM , 32MB V-RAM Radeon 7500 and a 40GHD in Febuary and CMBO & CMBB runs very well on it. In fact i think it seems to run better on it compared to my DP800 G4!!!!!!! Best Måkjager 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aka_tom_w Posted April 15, 2003 Share Posted April 15, 2003 Originally posted by laxx: My 2 cents worth: - i have no hang-ups on not being able to run CMBB under OSX. CMBB series came around before OSX was fully adopted. - How can it be reasonable for Apple to support retro-API when they have fully endorsed OpenGL as the Graphic standards ? How can it be reasonable for BFC to rewrite the game engine as a stop gap measure before CMXX version 3 comes out ? - So what can we do about it. Buy a PC ? Not for me coz I am a fanatical mac fan and doan endorse microsoft. Well, the other choices are: to run under OS9, it is NOT that hard to reboot, it is Faster than emulated mode. What about newer Macs who cannot boot OS 9 ? Well, it is possible to boot OS9 on the newer macs, you just have to replace the software ROM in the OS9 to make it work (quoted verbatim): "Apple recently posted a new file to its private Apple Service Provider web page (accessible only by account-holding Apple technicians and resellers) titled "MacTest Pro for Power Mac G4 (March 2003) Version 7.8.1 supports all iMac (Flat Panel) 15 inch systems only." The file is a CD image which can be downloaded and burned, then used as a startup disk. Testing in "Mac OS X-only" flat panel iMac system revealed that the image properly booted Mac OS 9. Users can then copy a stripped-down Mac OS 9 system folder to their hard drive, and select it with the "Startup Disk" System Preferences pane, delivering a Mac OS 9 bootable internal disk. It appears that a new MacOS ROM file (ver. 9.8.1) allows booting from the image. Of course, this solution is only readily accessible by Mac service providers, but it shows that Mac OS 9 boots are not impossible on Apple's new machines. " Now, if this is a Problem for those out there, let me Offer this to ya: I will create a bootable CD for OS9 for newer 2003 Macs out there. Now OS9.22 is freely downloadable from Apple, so there is no copyright issues. With this CD, one could boot and create your own Bootable OS9 partition. Any takers ? Currently, ASAIknow, only the PB12, PB17 and the dual-mirrors cannot run OS9. cheers! THANKS I find that info VERY interesting. -tom w 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.