allied anti tank weapons ,what is best ?[piat and bazooka]

[Wolfcub]

this is just a general question but what do u think is the most effective of the too? personly i tend to think the piat is better but am i wrong?

[Guest ckoharik]

Personal opinion? I've had much better results from PIATs than from the zooks.

[Lordfluffers]

You can fire the Piat from anywhere without setting a building on fire or pinning your own men. It also as good penetration. the Piat is much better IMO.

[Berlichtingen]

Bazooka... never had any luck with those useless PIATs

[Kanonier Reichmann]

My personal experience is that PIATs kill enemy AFV's once they hit but are quite a bit more inaccurate at range (say above 70 metres) than the Bazookas. Unfortunatley, I've lost count of the number of times a bazooka round, when it actually hits its target, results in the message "no effect". Then you're left with one very exposed Bazooka team (due to its rocket trail) hoping like hell it hits with the next shot AND actually penetrates to good effect before it dies a very sudden death.

My thoughts on the subject.

Regards

Jim R.

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After many years of trying to find steady work, I finally got a

job as a historian, until I realized there was no future in it.

[This message has been edited by Kanonier Reichmann (edited 03-26-2001).]

[aka_tom_w]

good article on the PIAT here:

http://www.6th-airborne.org/piat.html

Says it was good up to 100 yards (if you are Lucky)

and that it had a VERY good warhead that could penetrate 4 inches of armour.

check out the web page

it also says it was spring loaded and I think the ROF in CM is WAY to high from the looks of the page it would take AT least 2-3 Minutes to reload the damn thing. I think I have seen PIATs fire at least twice in one minute in CM this may seem a little nit picky but I think if you were the piat gunner and had to stand on the thing (see this pic)

to reload it you could NEVER get more than one shot off in a minute

does anyone know what the ROF for a Piat is in CM it should be VERY slow like 2-4 minutes PER ROUND

The bazooka should have a much higher ROF and I have found that 'zook gunners can easily get two rounds off in a minute, but I agree that seem to less effective, as in it is very dissapointing to see "penetration NO result" !

and they DO absolutely set buildings on FIRE!

-tom w

[This message has been edited by aka_tom_w (edited 03-26-2001).]

[PeterNZer]

Tom

Keep in mind that ideally the Piat, once fired, would recock itself.

I imagine they went into the battle with it ready to go and once fired it would generally recock itself.

No idea what % of the time it would fail to do so. Would be fun to put in a % chance of it 'jamming' requiring a manual recocking time hehe.

PeterNZ

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- Official owner of the sig files of Dalem, Croda and JeffShandorf -

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[M. Bates]

Originally posted by aka_tom_w:

good article on the PIAT here:

http://www.6th-airborne.org/piat.html

Says it was good up to 100 yards (if you are Lucky)

and that it had a VERY good warhead that could penetrate 4 inches of armour.

check out the web page

it also says it was spring loaded and I think the ROF in CM is WAY to high from the looks of the page it would take AT least 2-3 Minutes to reload the damn thing. I think I have seen PIATs fire at least twice in one minute in CM this may seem a little nit picky but I think if you were the piat gunner and had to stand on the thing (see this pic)

to reload it you could NEVER get more than one shot off in a minute

does anyone know what the ROF for a Piat is in CM it should be VERY slow like 2-4 minutes PER ROUND

-tom w

[This message has been edited by aka_tom_w (edited 03-26-2001).]

Um using words like "NEVER" to a weapon which you Tom have never fired is a bit extreme IMHO.

Also don't forget that in CM Piats are fired and loaded by a two-man team.

[Pascal DI FOLCO]

The PIAT was also known for ... injuring the firer, that had a broken ankle if he didn't brace itself sufficiently !

The charge also had a tendancy to fall off the ground if the PIAT was aimed low...but that is perhaps untrue, a thread talked about that IIRC.

So the zook was the good design, but in 44-45 it had a somewhat feebler charge than the PIAT.

Which is best...hummm...The Panzerschreck !!!

[aka_tom_w]

Originally posted by M. Bates:

Um using words like "NEVER" to a weapon which you Tom have never fired is a bit extreme IMHO.

Also don't forget that in CM Piats are fired and loaded by a two-man team.

oops

my appologies on the "never" comment

I am sorry that I had not read that they would re-cock themselves once fired. that makes alot more sense as they do seem to fire at the rate of about 2 per minute in CM

sorry I had not read further on that one before "spouting" off

I will be more cautious in the future

thanks for the reminder to do my homework first

-tom w

[M. Bates]

Originally posted by aka_tom_w:

oops

my appologies on the "never" comment

I am sorry that I had not read that they would re-cock themselves once fired. that makes alot more sense as they do seem to fire at the rate of about 2 per minute in CM

sorry I had not read further on that one before "spouting" off

I will be more cautious in the future

thanks for the reminder to do my homework first

-tom w

HAHAHA! We've forced him to go back on his own words!!

Now the clandestine pro-Piat campaign for Piat weapons to be included in modern armies can carry on unopposed!!

[aka_tom_w]

Originally posted by M. Bates:

HAHAHA! We've forced him to go back on his own words!!

Now the clandestine pro-Piat campaign for Piat weapons to be included in modern armies can carry on unopposed!!

you're just itching for a TCP/IP match with me, aren't you Mr. Bates!

I goofed

I'm sorry

But I can still win using the British even if we have all agree that playing the Germans is like holding the serve in tennis....

(that means it is my opinion that it is easier to win with the German Because they have SMG's 'fausts and 'shrecks! and off coure the omnipresent uber tanks)

(in Fun )

-tom w

[M. Bates]

I agree: as the Allies you must "inch" through villages and past buildings because of the Jerries' various gizmos and gadgets - which tend to be dangerous to the health of Death Boxes.

[Michael Dorosh]

I've never heard the broken ankle comment before and would be interested in learning the source for this.

the PIAT was indeed unable to depress to fire at lower targets, as the bomb would indeed fall out of the tray.

Also bear in mind in this discussion how heavy a PIAT is compared to the bazooka. I think someone in another thread noted that PIAT gunners tire more easily than bazookamen. I've had trouble keeping my PIAT teams with their platoons, and in redeploying them quickly.

Victoria Cross winner Smokey Smith has commented that he would rather have had a bazooka than a PIAT, though I don't know why. Had he used a bazooka the night he won the VC, he would have given away his position.

[Leonidas]

The article linked above has excellent information. At the risk of redundancy, here's what you need to know to use the PIAT in CM:

The PIAT is essentially a pole with a heavy spring and a bomb on the end. You pull the trigger, release the spring, a firing ping arms the bomb and sends the bomb sailing towards its target.

The PIAT's main advantage is that there's no combustion used to propel the bomb, so 1) it is relatively quiet, 2) it doesn't flash or smoke, making it easier to hide post-launch, and 3) with indoor use, there's no risk of catching the building on fire.

So the PIAT can be useful in the right situation - ideally defense involving a lot of buildings. Once you've fired a PIAT, don't assume that the enemy knows where the team is. With luck your team may remain undetected for several shots.

[Warmaker]

The 'zook is better of the two handheld AT weapons of the Allies. Didn't remember numbers but I've lost more Panzers to the 'zooks, that's for sure.

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"Uncommon valor was a common virtue"-Adm.Chester Nimitz of the Marines on Iwo Jima

[Hamsters]

SL was wrong, the round wouldn't fall out if depressed, as it was held in by some pin or somesuch.

[bigmac@work]

By far my favorite of the two (No fair Pascal! : is the PIAT. They're harder to spot in the CM engine than a Zook since they don't produce the smoke trail, no backblast so the woods or building you've successfully hidden in won't ignite, and have a successful killing range well outside of 100m. There's typically many more of them when playing as Brits or Canadians (one per platoon), and when they do hit what they're aiming at, it turns into a hulk. I'm comfortable (and have won) in wood or city maps playing solely with British infantry against a German mixed force due to the presence of the PIAT's. They provide sufficient AT capability to render the need to spend points on AFV's unneccessary (Kids, don't try this at home with light or moderate cover).

Bigmac out!

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Check out the Dogs of War CM Players Community

[Simon Fox]

I suggest the whole lot of you do a freekin search, especially you tom before you go off half cocked with yer "massive PIAT bug, BTS please fix or somefink". Still, I suppose it was good for a laugh, hehe.....still chortling....

BTW as pointed out by somebody or other there WAS a thingy to hold it in place. The PIAT was a spigot mortar like the ARVE "main gun".

hehe.....chortle....

[This message has been edited by Simon Fox (edited 03-27-2001).]

[grunto2]

the piat is great in defense because you can put it inside buildings.

the baz is good on the attack because it is fast and makes a good recon unit =grin=

i don't really do that...

andy

[Brian Smith]

In a current PBEM game (you know who you are Keefek), I had two veteran Piat teams have about 6 shots at a stationary German halftrack at 70 metres or less and miss every time. One of the teams then missed an armoured car from side-on at 90 metres. Bloody hopeless - I am yet to get a kill with a Piat, yet I have watched two of my Shermans get toasted by 'schrecks. Sometimes, the angels just aren't on your side.

[Ksak]

You have left out the Allied 57mm recoiless rifle. I've had more success with this weapon than both the PIAT or the bazooka.

[Bry Barnard]

I like PIATS!!

I played the Sherbrooke Fusiliers scenario that comes with the game and had a PIAT take out a StugH head-on at 189m. Wow, you should have seen that PIAT shell arch it's way over.

I think, from having chatted to some guys that actually used them, that you needed at least two guys built like Arnold Schwarzie to reload the thing, and to hit anything above 50m was a pure fluke.

As for Bazookas they were easier to use but in order to take anything out you needed to be stood 5 feet behind the target to a) hit it and penetrate the armour.

Of the two I prefer the PIAT in CM coz you can use them from within buildings.

Bry

[KiwiJoe]

I prefer PIATS. I once had 1 fire 6 shots over 2 turns at a stug 120m away. It finally hit with the 6th shot and knocked the stug out. I asked my enemy why he didnt move the stug during the 2nd turn and he said he simply didnt see it.

Stick em in a house or tree line under hQ control with +1 or +2 stealth bonus and they are damn near impossable to spot.

[Dschugaschwili]

I'm currently playing a game as the Brits, and I must say that my PIAT gunners must have eyes like a mole. From about 10 shells fired at ranges of about 80m on average, not a single one hit anything (veteran gunners). I don't think this is representative, but I guess I won't buy PIATs next time if I have the choice. My 2" mortars were much more effective at destroying enemy armor.

Dschugaschwili

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