This darn game is giving me fits!!!!!!!

[ccc343]

Alright folks, I am a newbie to CM and a newbie to this board. This darn game is giving me fits. It always seems that the AI is better than me. Their units fire more accurately (and faster) than mine. My units engage targets randomly. I mean when is a crew from a knocked out tank more dangerous than a panther tank. I have played missions and operations from both sides and the other side is always better than me. I have been trying to punch a hole through the west wall as the Americans for a week and a half and and getting my butt handed to me. I then took a swing as the Germans and was once again handed a butt wooping. I can crest a hill with 2 sherman 105's and two sherman 75's, engage a panzer IV from 250 meters and have shell after shell bounce off the panzer's armor while 1 shot from the panzer takes my boys out every time. Oh heck, maybe my tactics are flawed. I dunno. Just needed a place to vent my frustration. Any tips or help is always appreciated. I'm going back to being frustrated. See you later.

[ACTOR]

Not to say that I am as good as Kiwi Joe but it really is about tatics. You need to understand the capabilities of your units and then use them appropriately. Luck will always weigh in, hopefully it will occasionally show up in your camp. I recommend playing against live opponents who are better than you and learn from them.

Other than that, welcome aboard. If you want to play PBEM let me know.

[Suicides-by-Steve]

You have the latest patch right?

[rleete]

Search the forum for LOTS of posts on various tactics. It takes a bit of getting used to. Note the topic: "Ever been beaten by the AI?" It takes practice. Try the tutorial, and get so you can beat it from either side.

[chuckle]

Well i too got my arse royally kicked when i first played the game. Then i got my arse kicked again. Eventually though i got wise, i learned about the strengths and weaknesses of my various units, and learned some tactics. then i started beating the ai.

Now i pbem and get my arse kicked by humans, but im slowly learning...

If you can get the search to work there is a wealth of information buried in the archives of this bb - this is where i got my first pointers from. there are also some excellent articles on tactics on some of the various CM websites, off the top of my head i would suggest trying

CMHQ and

Combat Missions

i would agree with the comment above, you will learn a lot faster playing against human opponents.

Good luck

ben

[MrWinterbottom]

I would rack it up to old fashioned bad luck with a little bit of learning to do.

Mr.Winterbottom

[Gyrene]

I think that CM infantry likes to shoot at bailed out crews so much is because of the "Oh, you don't have your big, bad, tank anymore do you eh, ass****? Take THAT!" factor.

At least its why I would shoot at the crews.

I have no idea if that was simulated into the TacAI

Gyrene

[Aloid]

CM kicked my butt at first because everything I had learned from every other game since board games in the 70's was over simplified (crap).

CM has shown me the light, and the error of my ways.

Tank rushes just don't work here.

Hang in there, you'll get it figured out!

Aloid

[Manx]

I would recommend reading Gremlin's BOOT CAMP Articles on COMBAT MISSIONS. Not because it's on my site, but because they're good!.

[BloodyBucket]

I know the feeling. :mad:

That scenario is tough for a new player, or at least it was tough for me. I don't pretend to be God's gift to tactics, but some things that helped me were:

<UL TYPE=SQUARE><LI>Remembering to use smoke.

<LI>Not getting fixated on victory flags

<LI>Using the whole time available in a scenario, ie not rushing

<LI>Trying to save some artillery for later

<LI>Not getting in to gunfights with tanks that outclass yours

If only I could remember to do all these things myself. I still have an annoying tendency to "hope for the best" and shoot it out with tanks that outclass me, and there are times when I don't use smoke when I should because it is so satisfying to blow stuff up.

Just keep plugging away, take time to try different things to see how they work and you will develop a style of play that suits you. If it is any consolation, the fact that the AI can be a bugger means that you will still play this game months from now, and if you do get the best of it consistently (Happy Day! ) then there are some awesome tacticians on this board who will always challenge you.

[Mace]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ACTOR:

If you want to play PBEM let me know.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hey Actor, you can add me to your dance card if ya got room, I loves to Tango!

Mace

btw ccc34, welcome aboard, I am sure the CM Borg will be along eventually to assimilate you!

[JasonC]

"punch a hole through the west wall"...

Valley of Trouble, right?

"engage a panzer IV from 250 meters and have shell after shell bounce off the panzer's armor"

Doesn't sound like a Pz IV to me. Your men will not always ID a tank correctly right away, you know. Enemy units are not always what they first seem.

Here is a hint. Some German tanks have very thick front armor. But the sides aren't so daunting. If two tanks are widely seperate from each other, it is hard for a third to face both of them at once with frontal armor.

Here is another hint. Tank fire is pretty good against bunkers. Takes a couple rounds to zero in on the firing slit, but they can hit them. Be careful of the reply from guns, or use several tanks at once. MGs are no problem, as long as you button up.

And another. Enemy towed guns, mortars, and other slow heavy weapons (as long as they aren't in bunkers) are particularly vunerable to indirect fire. Since they can't get out of the way easily, and they often can't see the observor, so they can't effectively reply.

One last one. Engineer squads can clear minefields if they can remain stationary within about 15 meters or so of one, for a minute or two. "Daisy chains" are free. Other types they need to use a demo charge.

Good luck.

[Phoenix]

Oh heck, maybe my tactics are flawed.

I hate to be cruel, but yeah, that's exactly what it is. That and you likely have misconceptions about how things "should be".

FWIW - I haven't lost a single game to the AI in a quick battle...well, nearly ever. In well designed scenarios the AI still gets to me now and then.

Practice practice practice. And read some of the tactics web sites. I don't have the URL's handy, sorry.

My .02

[ACTOR]

Mace come and dance with me!

[Mace]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ACTOR:

Mace come and dance with me! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I would, but some nong is blocking your email addy!

I think I have your email saved at home, but drop me a line on rknight1@bigpond.net.au just in case, and we can work something out.

Mace

[lcm1947]

No one else will tell you the truth so I'll have to. The AI cheats! Pure and simple. No just kidding but as I too have and still do get beat by the computer it makes me feel better thinking that and actually I swear it sure seems like it does some times. But I'm not very good, but man I love the game. I don't lose as often now that I buy his stuff. HA! HA! Now guess who's cheaping.

[chrisl]

Also check out some of the tutorials and tactical decision games at Scout PL's site. He's an ex-platoon leader and does some nice writeups on how to attack, defend, etc. and in the tactical decision games he takes submissions from the peanut gallery and critiques them.

Scout PL's page

[ParaBellum]

Hehe, welcome to the world of CM!

Even if you've played other wargames before, for playing CM you will have to change your style of play. IMHO CM is one of the few games that will not only encourage you to use "real-world tactics" but will kick your a*** if you don't!

Most important hint:be careful!

I know, sounds easy, but I met lots of people who got their armor toasted before they even knew what was hitting them.

Use infantry to scout and then use arty and direct fire HE to neutralize enemy positions.

Don't use your tanks as pillboxes, manuever them into positions where you can get flank shots at enemy armour. Use your AT guns TOGETHER with your armor to get enemy tanks into deadly crossfires. Hide your infantry and open fire until enemy infantry comes close (<100m).

Try to make a plan BEFORE the battle, and be ready to change it during battle!

And, last but not least: learn how to effectively use your arty!

Ah, forgot the most important:

practice your skills with human opponents.

There are many guys on this forum who will help you to improve your tactics.

Once you can beat human opponents, the AI will be easy prey!

[The Codfather]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ccc343:

I can crest a hill with 2 sherman 105's and two sherman 75's, engage a panzer IV from 250 meters and have shell after shell bounce off the panzer's armor while 1 shot from the panzer takes my boys out every time.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

One important thing to remember is that bigger is not necessarily better... For example the 105mm Sherman is not a better tank killer than the 75mm. The 105 is a great anti-infantry tank, due to the blast radius of it's HE rounds. It generally does not have anti-tank rounds, and thus won't be effective at killing tanks.

The best way to determine which tank to use to attack other tanks is to look at the info screen (click on the unit and press enter). There you can see the penetrative power of the tank's various ammo types at different ranges. You can also use this screen to identify the armor thickness of the enemy (click on it and hit enter). If the penetrative power of your anti-tank rounds exceeds the frontal armor of the enemy, you're all set. If not, you will probably have to maneuver for a flank, or even a rear shot to take out the tank...

Hope this helps...

[Olle Petersson]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ccc343:

It always seems that the AI is better than me. Their units fire more accurately (and faster) than mine. ... I have played missions and operations from both sides and the other side is always better than me.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>This is exactly the experience I had with the first dozen of games I played in the demo versions. Got myself spanked by the AI every single time!

Then I found this BBS, and read a few threads of tactics to use and such.

Implemented the advice, and found myself getting better results.

Now when I've had the full game for about eight months I can beat the AI about half of the time...

Cheers

Olle

[MikeyD]

Reminds me of a post some time ago "Whenever I crest the hill with my Stugs they're immediately knocked out!" to which the reply was "Then don't crest that hill!" Tactics is the art of the possible. It helps to have a sneaky personality. If memory serves, that West Wall scenario (is it the one with the 88 buiunker?) was a tough nut to crack.

[Maximus]

I don't know about 88mm Bunkers, but I have new found respect for the Firefly's 17 pdr gun. I played Villers-Boccage again last night (with Tiger's latest Tiger mod), and I was getting smoked by those damned Fireflys that show up at the end of that one street. Before hand, I was kicking some major butt with Wittman, had him down in town and everything smoking those poor Sherman IIIs and Cromwells. I was even using +100% troops for the Germans and I still got my ass wasted just after a few turns past the reinforcement turn. Couldn't believe it, frontal kills on Veteran Tigers from Green and Conscript Fireflys.

[ 04-24-2001: Message edited by: Maximus ]

[CombinedArms]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Maximus:

Couldn't believe it, frontal kills on Veteran Tigers from Green and Conscript Fireflys.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

A Firefly AP round, esp. tungsten, will go through the frontal armor of any Axis tank in the game. On the other hand, it's got just ordinary Sherman armor, which means a Pz IV can kill it easily from the front. The gun on a Conscript Firefly is just as good as the gun on a Veteran and if you waltz into the center of Villier-Bocage too soon, one of those Fireflies (or even a flanking Sherman III) WILL kill you.

The moral is: the enemy has weapons that can and will kill your best equipment and best troops. Nobody has any immunity. So the key is CAUTIOUS aggression. Play the angles, work for LITTLE advantages. Try to bring an overbalance of force against enemy weakpoints while protecting your own as much as possible. Even the best weapon in CM has vulnerabilities.

Take on enemy strengths one by one--this turn take out that anti-tank team with your infantry. Next turn, move through the hole with your Sherman to flank the enemy Panther--but keep in mind there may be more hidden AT assets behind those you've killed. In other words, use combined arms tactics--infantry screening armor, armor supporting infantry, artillery hammering down strong points or smoking them out, but recognize there are no guarantees.

There will STILL be lots of nasty suprises because the enemy is also playing the angles, looking to surprise you. It can be very frustrating at times, but also a lot of fun once you get the hang of it. Its a great game, but with a definite learning curve. You can learn fast if you're observant and keep an open mind.

[sable-]

In a straight-up encounter, the Firefly simply outclasses the Tiger I. Both tanks can penetrate the other from just about any angle or range, but the Firefly is more accurate due to higher muzzle velocity, has a faster turret, and moves faster. I ran some test scenarios using Panthers, Tiger I's, and Firefly's the other day.

7 Tigers vs. 7 Fireflys on flat open terrain always resulted in 7 dead Tigers and maybe 1 or 2 dead Fireflys. The Shermans would get the first shot, hit more often, and could change targets more quickly.

6 Panthers(VA or VG with the shot trap) vs. 8 Fireflys in the same flat open setup would range from 2 or 3 live panthers at the end for a 400m engagement to 6 live panthers at 900 meters. The longer the range, the more likely it was for the 17 lb rounds to ricochet off the Panthers hull's. Also the Panthers seemed to be somewhat more accurate, and not much slower then the Firefly's.

So, the Panther is defintly superior in a straight head to head fight, but all German tanks should fear that 17lb gun.

Sable

[Maximus]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by CombinedArms:

A Firefly AP round, esp. tungsten, will go through the frontal armor of any Axis tank in the game. On the other hand, it's got just ordinary Sherman armor, which means a Pz IV can kill it easily from the front. The gun on a Conscript Firefly is just as good as the gun on a Veteran and if you waltz into the center of Villier-Bocage too soon, one of those Fireflies (or even a flanking Sherman III) WILL kill you.

The moral is: the enemy has weapons that can and will kill your best equipment and best troops. Nobody has any immunity. So the key is CAUTIOUS aggression. Play the angles, work for LITTLE advantages. Try to bring an overbalance of force against enemy weakpoints while protecting your own as much as possible. Even the best weapon in CM has vulnerabilities.

Take on enemy strengths one by one--this turn take out that anti-tank team with your infantry. Next turn, move through the hole with your Sherman to flank the enemy Panther--but keep in mind there may be more hidden AT assets behind those you've killed. In other words, use combined arms tactics--infantry screening armor, armor supporting infantry, artillery hammering down strong points or smoking them out, but recognize there are no guarantees.

There will STILL be lots of nasty suprises because the enemy is also playing the angles, looking to surprise you. It can be very frustrating at times, but also a lot of fun once you get the hang of it. Its a great game, but with a definite learning curve. You can learn fast if you're observant and keep an open mind.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah, that's another thing I keep forgetting. The damn Tungsten works now since the v1.1x patches. Guess I haven't played much since these patches due to my old computer, now that I got a kick-ass machine, I'm playing more.