Will CMBO Become Obsolete Upon The Arrival Of CM2?

[MikeyD]

CM2 will probably turn out to be a 'something for everyone' kind'a game. If you like light armor racing about with their little pop-guns (something I'm looking forward to) there's there early war scenarios. If you skip til the end of the war you may be able to concocts 'what-if' scenarios involving the IS-3 and the mighty Maus! Sounds like CM2 will be to CM1 as CM1 was to the demo!

About the original question of BTS abandoning the Western Front, sounds like we've been spoiled by these guys. CM1 is and will remain a great game. I can't recall Tombraider handing out a half-dozen upgrades and patches, then letting the users post mods of Ms. Croft's wardrobe on their website!

[Barrold]

I am definitely going to buy CMBB as I have always been an East Front nut. Previous to CMBO I shied away from West Front games because I thought the Allied units were too vanilla. I have changed my mind and it was CM that opened my eyes and expanded my mind.

Personally, I would pay regular full price for an updated game that included a change in the game engine. I would likely pay for an expansion pack to bring CMBO up to CMBO features, but I would understand if the business reasons did not make sense for BTS to spend their time on it.

My hopeful expectation is for them to provide my money's worth for the games I purchase and keep my interest

[Panzer Leader]

Don't you guys want to see BTS keep working on NEW projects instead of wasting away updating old ones??? I just don't get this whole attitude. BTS (we love ya guys) are a unique boon to wargamers, and it is not one we should put to waste doing endless updates and patches and little improvements here and there. Geez, open up and let them run free! They are like birds that need to fly, let them move forward and they wil continue to give us awe-inspiring games, but try to stifle and suffocate them and WE will suffer by getting crap instead of new and wonderful products.

It's like, what if we had told them years ago "Just do a straight conversion of ASL dammit, we don't need your high-falutin' 3D" we never would have gotten CMBO. Now that we have it, you people (The anti-forward people that is) want to hold them back and not let them go.

When I read that guy post "I want CMBB to have as few new improvements as possible" I almost screamed. You sir are close-minded and will never approve of any new venture.

Let them make their games, and stop trying to drag them down making endless patches and upgrades. Let them run free and do what they do best: innovate!

[Battlefront.com]

PL:

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>It's like, what if we had told them years ago "Just do a straight conversion of ASL dammit, we don't need your high-falutin' 3D" we never would have gotten CMBO.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Oh, we got a LOT of that all the way until even after release. What a pain in the arse But I will tell you, some of them got one thing right. They said "CM will never be as good as ASL". Totally true. Honestly, we never intended to make CM as good as ASL, otherwise we would have just coppied it. Instead we wanted to make something better, and I think it is safe to say we did that

I don't mind people asking us to find a way to get the Western Front up-to-date with the latest and greatest version of the game engine. But it is not a simple thing to do. We have about a half dozen different concepts of how this could be done in theory, but so far haven't hit upon one that works for us in reality. And trust me... greed is not a factor at all. More like what PL stated. We are just too small to do too much at once, so if push comes to shove we must move on instead of moving backwards. It is the only correct course to take.

Eventually the Western Front will be covered again and receive the latest and greatest version of whatever engine we have at the time. The only question is when...

Steve

[The Commissar]

I think the "anti-forward" people, as Pazner Leader so fittingly calls them, are merely the representetives of the "majority", so to speak. Most people want the East and West front. That's what we think of when we think WW2.

When we think Africa, some may recall from distant memory or perhaps an article they read a while ago someone named the "Desert Fox" (probably a gallant American judging by the romantic title). When we think "Early War", we get images of those Pols and French getting run over by the invinvible German hordes of pure dastardly evil.

Maybe I'm being a bit biased here, since I admit to not having the same desire or being as familiar with these different fronts as I am with the Western and Eastern ones. Perhaps most of us do want to see the Early war and Desert battles (although that TC covers it pretty darn well, IMO), but it just doesn't seem to show. I don't know...perhaps Im just not listening, but the only thing I keep hearing conversations and fantasies about other then East and West would be the Pacific battles against the Japanese.

Am I just down right wrong here? Are all of you just dieing to get to the Desert and Early war but just keep your emotions inside?

If you are, I wish I could do the same for CM2...wouldn't be bouncing off the walls then, lol

Right-o, I want to hear a coupla comments here.

[Username]

Havent followed the thread but its a function of how progressive EF play will be from CMBO play. If it has the same pitfalls then an occasional normandy battle might come to mind.

Lewis

[Panzer Leader]

I am very interested in all aspects of the war. It is true that my true fascination is with the East Front, but over the past few years I have become interested in the other aspects.

I recently read "Thre Rommel Papers" and it did a lot to help me better understand the fighting that took place in Africa. The two things that I would most like to see in a desert theatre would be the vast mobile battles that took place over the open desert ground. Forces would engage at up to 2 km away, and their support units (AT Guns, howitzers, etc.) would be more than that. The other type I would like to see are the hardened defense versus an assaulting strike force. Tobruk alone would make for a number of great battles.

Next on my list is Early War, and here, I find the most interesting points to be the special operations (like the Raid on Eben Emael and the other paradrops). I also like the continuous breakthru's and flanking of the enemies positions by the German offensive.

You see, both of these offer distinct types of battles that are not easily recreated in CMBO both because of the unit availability and the terrain and maps.

Also, last on the list (but still interested!) is the Pacific because of the unique island storming and jungle fighting that went on there. It is only last on the list because it is the part I know least about. "Naked and the Dead" is about my only experience with that whole front.

There are other reasons, but those are the main ones, or at least the ones I thought of off the top of my head!

[Pvt. Ryan]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Big Time Software:

Eventually the Western Front will be covered again and receive the latest and greatest version of whatever engine we have at the time. The only question is when...

Steve<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

If the engine rewrite starts after CM2, then I presume CM3 and CM4 will be released with the new engine. If so, all the kinks should have been worked out of the new engine by then and the updated version of the West (and East?) Front will be something to really look forward to. I hope my 10Ghz machine will be able to handle it.

[ 06-09-2001: Message edited by: Pvt. Ryan ]

[coe]

How hard would it be to adapt the scenarios from CMBO to CM2. I mean if the basic behavior of troops and vehicles, etc are the same then in an ideal world it wouldn't be too hard. i.e. an American squad still gives 100 gunfire factors at 100 m etc. etc

compared to a German or Russian, etc.

I guess i'm thinking of the concept of compoenentizing the game so you can do separate modifications to separate parts.

I assuem though that the engine of CM2 might be heavily influential on this.

[Wolfe]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by coe:

How hard would it be to adapt the scenarios from CMBO to CM2.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't think that BTS is going to put the units from CM1 into CM2 (except those that also appeared on the Eastern Front, of course), so CM1 scenarios likely won't work even if the file formats are the same.

- Chris

[dalem]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Wolfe:

I don't think that BTS is going to put the units from CM1 into CM2 (except those that also appeared on the Eastern Front, of course), so CM1 scenarios likely won't work even if the file formats are the same.

- Chris<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

And if there are going to be new squad characteristics (a la 'fitness') then the infantry model (at least) becomes incompatible.

-dale

[rich12545]

Steve:

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> Rich, that system you got there will be fine. I'd put it towards a hair below the target system. Remember that the system you have now is about twice what our target system was for CM1 Obviously faster/more is always better for a game like CM (i.e. 3D and loaded up), but what you have there will work just fine for CM2. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I respectfully but wholeheartedly disagree. With cm now, if I use hi-res grass or buildings OR use a huge map, the scrolling gets very choppy. And this is for twice the target system?

[rune]

Rich,

I think Steve means for the stock game. The mods are third party affairs and can impact the game and computer differently. You cannot expect him to make a hardware recommendation for anything but the stock game.

Rune

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by rich12545:

Steve:

I respectfully but wholeheartedly disagree. With cm now, if I use hi-res grass or buildings OR use a huge map, the scrolling gets very choppy. And this is for twice the target system?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

[rich12545]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by rune:

Rich,

I think Steve means for the stock game. The mods are third party affairs and can impact the game and computer differently. You cannot expect him to make a hardware recommendation for anything but the stock game.

Rune<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Oh, I understand that. But he said my system is TWICE what is needed for cm1. If that's the case, I shouldn't have ANY problem on a huge map and I shouldn't have ANY problem with hires mods. And I do. With that in mind, when he says my system is BARELY good enough for cm2 I think he is being optimistic about me being able to comfortably run the game.

No problem. I asked how my system would fare with cm2 and it looks like it wouldn't fare well. At least I still have cm1. With all the scenarios/operations from you and others (along with the random generator) I'll never run out. CM is a game that keeps giving and giving and giving.....

[Armdchair]

Panzer Leader (and anyone else interested in the PTO) - other books you might read on the Pacific are William Manchester's "Goodbye, Darkness: A Memoir of the Pacific War" (NY, Dell, 1980), E.B. Sledge's personal account "With the Old Breed: At Pelelieu and Okinawa" (NY, Oxford Univ. Press, 1990) and of course, PTO vet James Jones' novel "The Thin Red Line" (NY, Dell, 1998) - I'm recommending the book, not the movie (which differed considerably from the novel). For an overview there is Edwin P. Hoyt's "Japan’s War: The Great Pacific Conflict 1853 to 1952" (NY, McGraw Hill, 1986) and Ronald H. Spector's "Eagle Against the Sun:The American War with Japan" (NY, Vintage, 1985).

[rune]

Rich,

It is the hi res grass that is the killer. Change that and try just vehicle mods and I bet you don't get the stutter.

That being said, there are some rune scenarios that can make ANY computer slow down, processing the turn. Battle of the Bulge based on the movie [in an anti-grog moment] evsn slows down my system which screams.

As a temptation for CM2, wait til you see the historical battles I have planned. Research is almost complete for a few, and more research is being done for even more scenarios.

Rune

[rich12545]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by rune:

Rich,

It is the hi res grass that is the killer. Change that and try just vehicle mods and I bet you don't get the stutter.

That being said, there are some rune scenarios that can make ANY computer slow down, processing the turn. Battle of the Bulge based on the movie [in an anti-grog moment] evsn slows down my system which screams.

As a temptation for CM2, wait til you see the historical battles I have planned. Research is almost complete for a few, and more research is being done for even more scenarios.

Rune<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I've had to take out the hires grass and the hires buildings. CM1 now works fine until I play a huge map and then the scrolling gets choppy. It really doesn't look like CM2 will work very well on my system. It will work, but not very well. But I'll try the demo and then see.

[Col Deadmarsh]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by rich12545:

I've had to take out the hires grass and the hires buildings. CM1 now works fine until I play a huge map and then the scrolling gets choppy. It really doesn't look like CM2 will work very well on my system. It will work, but not very well. But I'll try the demo and then see.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Time to bite the bullet and upgrade Rich. We all gotta do it sometime.

[rich12545]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Colonel_Deadmarsh:

Time to bite the bullet and upgrade Rich. We all gotta do it sometime.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sometime?? Like I said in a previous post I've been buying new computers and upgrading for 20 years. From an apple IIplus to an apple IIe to an apple IIgs to a 386/25 to a 386/40 to a 486 to a k6-2/300 to my present system a k6-2/400. If I never buy another computer game or download another scenario, I have enough to more than keep me busy for the rest of my life and then some. I just don't see any compelling reason to upgrade again. I'm much more interested in squad level battles on the west front than the east anyway and have enough CM scenarios/battles (with the random generator) to last a lifetime. So I think I'm going to leave things the way they are. I wish BTS all the success in the world with cm2 but I suspect I'm going to pass on it.

[Slapdragon]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by rich12545:

Sometime?? Like I said in a previous post I've been buying new computers and upgrading for 20 years. From an apple IIplus to an apple IIe to an apple IIgs to a 386/25 to a 386/40 to a 486 to a k6-2/300 to my present system a k6-2/400. If I never buy another computer game or download another scenario, I have enough to more than keep me busy for the rest of my life and then some. I just don't see any compelling reason to upgrade again. I'm much more interested in squad level battles on the west front than the east anyway and have enough CM scenarios/battles (with the random generator) to last a lifetime. So I think I'm going to leave things the way they are. I wish BTS all the success in the world with cm2 but I suspect I'm going to pass on it.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Rich--

Something you may need to do is optimize your system. I have been fighting a loosing battle to get Premiere to run reliably on about 14 Windows NT PIII 600 machines, which is way over the minimum on the box for that application. Most of them can just barely creek along running that application when our oldest Mac G3 300 does just fine.

Turns out that most of the MS Operating systems can get pretty fouled up under the hood. The registory can get so much garbage in it that it can actually affect screen redraw, old drivers can surface months after they were safely erased, and a dozen other little gremlins can infect the work.

The trick is to burn down your hard drive at regular intervals (nothing extreme, every 6 months or so) and reinstall Windows. Then go on the web and get the latest drivers for everything in your box. Load them up one after another. Then reinstall only the software you need and nothing else. Some gameheads will run one of the processor and graphics cards load application which tell which processes are eating processing power, then look if they can kill any of these processes. Sometimes getting more speed out of your system is as simple as hacking config.sys to keep the box from polling some piece of nonexistent gear. It can be a lot of work, but Windows is a lot like owning an old car, it can really perform well for you if you are willing to put some time and effort into keeping it clean and fixed.

Another soultion is to try Windows 2000. Here you pay for speed with some hits on operability, since the el cheapo video cards in our Dells died under 2000, but 2000 is proving to be a stable and well thought out OS, maybe not in UNIX or NeXT's camp, but a lot more friendly than NT without the BSOD.

[Madmatt]

While 2000 is a wonderful Operating System if your running a webserver or apllication server, I would recommend against it if your primary need for it is to run as a gaming system.

While it certainly has the muscle to perform up to the task, the hardware drivers available for it still arent up to snuff it seems.

Madmatt

[Vanir Ausf B]

Holy cow, we've had a Slapdragon sighting!

I seem to recall Maximus saying a while back that his 1.3 Ghz Athlon chugs a bit on the biggest CMBO maps, so it's possible to tax even the fastest comps with CM1 if you add enough hi-res stuff.

I have a 500 Mhz PIII with 256 RAM and a 32 mb GeForce and I'm not worried about CM2 running on it "stock".

[rich12545]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> The trick is to burn down your hard drive at regular intervals (nothing extreme, every 6 months or so) and reinstall Windows. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah, I already do that. I keep all my drivers and files on zip disks but it still takes me a couple of full days to accomplish the task.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Another soultion is to try Windows 2000. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I agree with Madmatt. Win2000 is not a gaming os. My son worked for Microsoft and he raved about it. So I tried several games on his machine. Some worked and some wouldn't even install. Even though he could get it for me for $20 I kept my old reliable win98, first edition.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> I seem to recall Maximus saying a while back that his 1.3 Ghz Athlon chugs a bit on the biggest CMBO maps <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Now THAT is interesting.

[Gyrene]

On using all this neat CM1 stuff with future versions of CM:

Remember when ASL came out and all of a sudden you couldn't use your old SL counters anymore?

Same thing here, but perhaps the maps might be salvageable.

Let go Luke...

Gyrene

[dalem]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Madmatt:

While 2000 is a wonderful Operating System if your running a webserver or apllication server, I would recommend against it if your primary need for it is to run as a gaming system.

While it certainly has the muscle to perform up to the task, the hardware drivers available for it still arent up to snuff it seems.

Madmatt<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah. A buddy of mine is CM-less for now because he upgraded to a new video card in his 2000 machine and it's just El No Supporto.

Bummer.