LOS checking method

[Simicro]

Hi,

As I understand, unlike some other games, CM does not have a dedicated LOS mode or tool allowing to check freely the LOS between for example points B and C.

Instead, during the order phase, I have to select one of my unit at point A and use stack commands to order the unit to move to point B, then use the 'Target' command and move the pointer to point C to check the LOS.

Am I correct? I am missing something?

[PEB14]

You just forgot one thing:

 

during the order phase, I have to select one of my unit at point A and use stack commands to order the unit to move to point B, then click on the waypoint you want to check LOS from (point B?), and use the 'Target' command and move the pointer to point C to check the LOS.

[Simicro]

Thanks for your answer. Yes I agree, what you corrected is what I meant and already do. I just wanted to check if there is another method that I am not aware of?

Ca fait quand même bizarre de se parler en anglais entre francophones 

[A Canadian Cat]

The only other method is to drop the camera down to the level of the unit and move the camera around looking for how to position your unit behind the hill crest and get LOS to that gap in the trees. I do that frequently when the method you describe isn't giving me the info I want.

[Vacillator]

24 minutes ago, Simicro said:

Ca fait quand même bizarre de se parler en anglais entre francophones 

I think it's because you both have excellent English .

[Simicro]

@IanL Thanks for your tip, I have not really thought about the camera. In fact I have sometimes used it that way but was not aware I was doing it! I'm not sure about the reliability of the camera method (but it gives a bold idea, agree) knowing that the target command (supposed to be more precise?) does not often accept the precise location I am pointing at. I imagine it is because of the underlying mesh structure of the terrain or something like that.

@Vacillator Merci beaucoup pour ton compliment ! Yes I believe we are fortunate enough PEB14 and I to be able to read and write rather fluently. I always think about other french speaking mates who don't speak english and have to struggle or give up on some games not translated in french.

[PEB14]

35 minutes ago, Vacillator said:

I think it's because you both have excellent English .

Thank you. I agree @Simicro's English is impressive. Mine… Well, a little less unfortunately…

A nice feature of this forum is that people are of very various origins: I've noticed at least one people from each Belgium, Denmark, the Netherlands, France, Italy, Germany, Austria, UK, USA, Canada, Australia and New Zealand…

And I probably missed some as I don't participate in the modern titles subforums.

A new slogan for BFC: "War unites people". Hmm well, not that great I'm afraid… "Make war, not love" ?

OK, I'm out.

[A Canadian Cat]

39 minutes ago, Simicro said:

@IanL Thanks for your tip, I have not really thought about the camera. In fact I have sometimes used it that way but was not aware I was doing it! I'm not sure about the reliability of the camera method (but it gives a bold idea, agree) knowing that the target command (supposed to be more precise?) does not often accept the precise location I am pointing at. I imagine it is because of the underlying mesh structure of the terrain or something like that.

The issue is that the target end point simulates if your selected unit can see the ground at the location you are testing. It gives you some hints for a small amount of reverse slope. I find I like the camera method when my plan is to expose as little of my unit while still having a chance to spot something. My goal is usually to let my guys spend some time observing while exposing as little of their position as possible. So, I'm choosing marginal locations from a targeting the ground perspective and frequently the target tool just say "no" but I am trying to find a spot where if an enemy tank was there I have a shot at seeing it, or not.

[womble]

There's also participation from Ukraine, Poland, Czechia and Greece that I can think of off the top of my head.

[Simicro]

@IanL : indeed, I've been in many situations where I was denied firing because of the reverse slope!

@PEB14 : "Wargames unite people". Team work  Okay CM is a simulation and not a game so I'm out too!

[chuckdyke]

2 hours ago, Simicro said:

@IanL Thanks for your tip, I have not really thought about the camera. In fact I have sometimes used it that way but was not aware I was doing it! I'm not sure about the reliability of the camera method (but it gives a bold idea, agree) knowing that the target command (supposed to be more precise?) does not often accept the precise location I am pointing at. I imagine it is because of the underlying mesh structure of the terrain or something like that.

@Vacillator Merci beaucoup pour ton compliment ! Yes I believe we are fortunate enough PEB14 and I to be able to read and write rather fluently. I always think about other french speaking mates who don't speak english and have to struggle or give up on some games not translated in French.

LOS is an ongoing issue between players. It gives you a guide that is all. Your TacAI has the final say. For me I use the move tool and eyeball my unit from View-1 the lowest camera setting. I eyeball the destination point and when I see the waypoint I regard the unit's situation as being in a danger zone. Over time we all developed our own playing style.

[Bulletpoint]

1 hour ago, womble said:

There's also participation from Ukraine, Poland, Czechia and Greece that I can think of off the top of my head.

Even one from Red China

@Chibot Mk IX

[Simicro]

13 minutes ago, chuckdyke said:

LOS is an ongoing issue between players. It gives you a guide that is all. Your TacAI has the final say. For me I use the move tool and eyeball my unit from View-1 the lowest camera setting. I eyeball the destination point and when I see the waypoint I regard the unit's situation as being in a danger zone. Over time we all developed our own playing style.

Thanks chuckdyke. Understood.

[Sublime]

16 hours ago, Simicro said:

Thanks for your answer. Yes I agree, what you corrected is what I meant and already do. I just wanted to check if there is another method that I am not aware of?

Ca fait quand même bizarre de se parler en anglais entre francophones 

your english is fine bro

[Sublime]

15 hours ago, PEB14 said:

Thank you. I agree @Simicro's English is impressive. Mine… Well, a little less unfortunately…

A nice feature of this forum is that people are of very various origins: I've noticed at least one people from each Belgium, Denmark, the Netherlands, France, Italy, Germany, Austria, UK, USA, Canada, Australia and New Zealand…

And I probably missed some as I don't participate in the modern titles subforums.

A new slogan for BFC: "War unites people". Hmm well, not that great I'm afraid… "Make war, not love" ?

OK, I'm out.

we even had vatniks and still have Ukrainians

Im sure we have Chinese but Ive never seen a self admitted person living in the PRC here.

This is gonna sound awful, and Im gonna probably get in trouble but here we goooo :

when the chinese start showing up in a video games, I mean chinese in the PRC, its the end.   Cheating to win is culturally accepted there and that fundamentally clashes with the concept of gaming without money involved or the morals of sportsmanship that.... the rest of the world has.  Its anecdotal to be sure but every game Ive ever played, with the online PLA-N (P Lib Army of Nerds) shows up the cheating goes through the roof.  Nevermind that they cant even use the same characters as us in chat. Its hard enough but somewhat doable when you both dont speak the same language but at least can type in C versus some chinese character my keyboard wont even produce..

I doubt itll happen, but before anyone calls me racist, two wrongs dont make a right but daily reminder that the CCP tv regularly uses blackface, mocks africans as dumb apes, etc.  Oh and LMFAO their troops recent combat experience mainly has been literally fleeing african rebels and leaving the aid workers behind

[chuckdyke]

Drew the move command panel. Top Left. Pause all movement of unit or units selected. Cancel all orders. Evade even on WeGo it saves time.

[BornGinger]

19 hours ago, IanL said:

The only other method is to drop the camera down to the level of the unit

But that is not possible. The lowest point is just above their heads, unless they're standing on a slope, which means that the player doesn't actually see what the troops should see.

[landser]

If and when there is a new generation of Combat Mission games, LOS should be able to be checked with a single key. Select any unit and hit or hold a key to either shade the terrain that the unit can see, or maybe shade that which cannot be seen. Not sure which is better. This should already be a thing.

And to flesh it out further, instead of shading, use colors. One color for Mark I eyeball and a different shade/color for what sensors detect beyond sight, if that's even a thing in Combat Mission. In other words, does the game differentiate between crew vision and that which is only seen through optics? And of course in modern titles, this would be useful to show how it is the unit can 'see' a certain part of the map or specific units. Is it sight, optics, thermals, radar, etc? 

Edited May 5, 2023 by landser

[A Canadian Cat]

9 minutes ago, BornGinger said:

But that is not possible. The lowest point is just above their heads, unless they're standing on a slope, which means that the player doesn't actually see what the troops should see.

Yes, that's a good point I was going to mention but forgot: This only really works for vehicles. Lower camera and an automatic way to set the camera height to the selected unit's height (some issues to work out what that means) are high on my feature ask list.

[A Canadian Cat]

Just now, IanL said:

This only really works for vehicles

Having said that I have on occation created a situation where I can get to eye level of soldiers. It's tricky and sub optimal. In certain situations where soldiers are on a hill you can move the camera back or forward so you look through their eye level and then do the view magnification from there.

This is a life hack that is not always possible and doesn't always work (soldiers in a forest for example) but sometimes is worth it. Plus, it is way more fiddly than it should be if we had game support.

[Chibot Mk IX]

16 hours ago, Bulletpoint said:

Even one from Red China

@Chibot Mk IX

I have been away from China for a while, and it has been a long time since my last returned to China. 

I know several other Chinese members on this forum.

Wondering if there is anyone from ROK and Japan? 

[Simicro]

57 minutes ago, landser said:

If and when there is a new generation of Combat Mission games, LOS should be able to be checked with a single key. Select any unit and hit or hold a key to either shade the terrain that the unit can see, or maybe shade that which cannot be seen. Not sure which is better. This should already be a thing.

100% agree!

In the Second Front tactical wargame by Microprose, the LOS tool (activated with a key) allows to dark shade the terrain that cannot be seen by the selected unit. If no unit is selected then it is the terrain that cannot be seen by all units that is dark shaded.

Edited May 5, 2023 by Simicro

[Sublime]

On 5/5/2023 at 10:47 AM, Simicro said:

100% agree!

In the Second Front tactical wargame by Microprose, the LOS tool (activated with a key) allows to dark shade the terrain that cannot be seen by the selected unit. If no unit is selected then it is the terrain that cannot be seen by all units that is dark shaded.

I think its the same with those wargames now like WARNO

 

I actually REALLY dig that method more

[chuckdyke]

We already have it with the move tool. If you can see the white dot from view-1 you could have an LOS. This game is unique because the TacAI has the last say. Cause of discussions by frustrated players. 

[chuckdyke]

Move Line Broken no LOS

Eyeball from View-1 to check your LOS