Bearstronaut Posted June 3, 2023 Share Posted June 3, 2023 5 hours ago, Kinophile said: Interesting how we've often pointed to the ZSU NCOs as superior to Russian. They might be, but not by much when compared to proper Western non-coms. A lot of the competent pre-war western trained NCOs are likely dead, wounded, or psychologically burnt out at this point. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanir Ausf B Posted June 3, 2023 Share Posted June 3, 2023 17 minutes ago, dan/california said: Many of his complaints seem valid, although a great many of them seem to have many historical parallels when a country/army tries to do to much with nit enough in a screaming hurry. Of course not doing things in a screaming hurry involves losing the war. That is a good take on it. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battlefront.com Posted June 3, 2023 Share Posted June 3, 2023 3 hours ago, Bearstronaut said: A lot of the competent pre-war western trained NCOs are likely dead, wounded, or psychologically burnt out at this point. Absolutely. The new brigades have been constructed from small cadres in several months. NATO standard NCOs would be in school longer than that on top of their previous time in uniform. So there are some limitations for sure. However, everything is relative. I would bet more money on a Ukrainian NCO with shortened training than on the equivalent in Russian uniform, mostly because the latter is likely to have NO training at all. Not even how to handle a rifle in some cases. We also have to keep in mind that this isn't a new thing, yet Ukraine consistently beats Russia on the battlefield. And even if Ukraine's soldiering standards are under stress, they are under far less than the Russians'. The importance, therefore, is Ukraine managing to keep a qualitative edge over the Russians, not an abstract standard established by peacetime armies in the West. The unfortunate downside of this is that Ukraine is most likely suffering more losses (men and equipment) than it would have if it could maintain NATO standard levels of training. Especially command related aspects. This is absolutely suboptimal and does, for sure, run the risk of causing some sort of strategic level impact on future Ukrainian options. Steve 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisl Posted June 3, 2023 Share Posted June 3, 2023 2 hours ago, sburke said: Ukrainian drone operator dodges Russian TOR-2M missile, then catches up to it — incredible video (yahoo.com) But the video is a lie! There's just a still. I did find the video over on reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/interestingas****/comments/13zicbr/a_ukrainian_drone_operator_dodges_a_russian_tor2m/ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan/california Posted June 3, 2023 Share Posted June 3, 2023 Quote https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2023/05/30/world/asia/russia-oil-ships-sanctions.html?name=styln-russia-ukraine®ion=TOP_BANNER&block=storyline_menu_recirc&action=click&pgtype=Article&variant=undefined But the tanker’s path was highly unusual. Over the course of a day, its signals showed erratic behavior as the ship rapidly changed position. Spoofing badly is whole lot more obvious than just turning the bleeping AIS system off. I think it looks a lot more like you are committing an active violation, too. I suspect some of this is intentionally not noticed because we want enough Russian oil on the market to keep the overall price bearable. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harmon Rabb Posted June 3, 2023 Share Posted June 3, 2023 (edited) Olaf Scholz, explaining to some idiots how it is. Edited June 3, 2023 by Harmon Rabb 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonS Posted June 3, 2023 Share Posted June 3, 2023 (edited) 7 hours ago, Kinophile said: Interesting how we've often pointed to the ZSU NCOs as superior to Russian. They might be, but not by much when compared to proper Western non-coms. This is like that old joke about escaping a bear: Ukraine doesn't have to be faster than the bear (NATO in this case), you just have to be faster than the other runner (Russia, in this case). I.e., Ukraine is fighting Russia, not NATO, in this war. Edited June 3, 2023 by JonS 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sojourner Posted June 3, 2023 Share Posted June 3, 2023 So why doesn't the bear just eat the slower runner? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beleg85 Posted June 3, 2023 Share Posted June 3, 2023 Somebody is using incendiary ammo in Shebekino. Russians firing up "Protokol 1812"? https://twitter.com/markito0171/status/1665120386286071810 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seminole Posted June 3, 2023 Share Posted June 3, 2023 14 minutes ago, Sojourner said: So why doesn't the bear just eat the slower runner? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battlefront.com Posted June 3, 2023 Share Posted June 3, 2023 18 minutes ago, Sojourner said: So why doesn't the bear just eat the slower runner? That would be Prig Steve 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sburke Posted June 3, 2023 Share Posted June 3, 2023 19 minutes ago, Sojourner said: So why doesn't the bear just eat the slower runner? they kind of are, via proxy. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battlefront.com Posted June 3, 2023 Share Posted June 3, 2023 6 minutes ago, Beleg85 said: Somebody is using incendiary ammo in Shebekino. Russians firing up "Protokol 1812"? https://twitter.com/markito0171/status/1665120386286071810 I find it funny that Russia not only couldn't take Kyiv in 3 days, but can't seem to take one of its own towns any quicker. Steve 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battlefront.com Posted June 3, 2023 Share Posted June 3, 2023 2 hours ago, chrisl said: But the video is a lie! There's just a still. I did find the video over on reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/interestingas****/comments/13zicbr/a_ukrainian_drone_operator_dodges_a_russian_tor2m/ Is it even possible for a TOR-2 missile to hit something that small? The operator didn't maneuver very much to avoid being hit. And even if it can, is it a good idea to spend many tens of thousands of Dollars to shoot down a drone costing a fraction of that? Even the Russians don't seem to think so: https://tass.com/defense/1207339 Steve 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kraft Posted June 3, 2023 Share Posted June 3, 2023 (edited) Head of the melitopol "we are together with russia" group Sergei Didovidyuk had an explosive day Source https://t.me/truexanewsua/74164 Edited June 3, 2023 by Kraft 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akd Posted June 3, 2023 Share Posted June 3, 2023 14 minutes ago, Battlefront.com said: Is it even possible for a TOR-2 missile to hit something that small? The operator didn't maneuver very much to avoid being hit. And even if it can, is it a good idea to spend many tens of thousands of Dollars to shoot down a drone costing a fraction of that? Even the Russians don't seem to think so: https://tass.com/defense/1207339 Steve Well, the drone was there to kill the TOR-2, so I guess there is a pretty good argument that a single missile is worth less than the entire system. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan/california Posted June 3, 2023 Share Posted June 3, 2023 3 minutes ago, akd said: Well, the drone was there to kill the TOR-2, so I guess there is a pretty good argument that a single missile is worth less than the entire system. That really is the lesson of this war, it isn't the cost of the drone, it is the cost of the thing the drone is about to introduce to some sort of PGM. Please note that loitering munitions are just a cheap and handy form of PGM. And if you don't have a cheap and effective way to shoot down loitering munitions I would not show up for the next war. Heck, the Armenians wish they hadn't shown up for the last one. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battlefront.com Posted June 3, 2023 Share Posted June 3, 2023 1. Some more from Belgorod: Supposedly intercepted radio traffic of Russians calling down artillery fire on their own people: https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineWarRoom/comments/13z87dr/russian_freedom_legion_we_intercepted_the/ Possible evidence of the strikes: https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineWarRoom/comments/13z8lvo/legion_freedom_of_russia_reports_that_the_russian/ https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineWarRoom/comments/13zc708/belgorod_region_ruzzia_they_thought_that_the_war/ 2. It's been a while since we've seen a report of a successful partisan action against Ukrainian traitors in the occupied areas: 3. Some satellite BDA of the recent Storm Shaddow strike on Berdyansk port facilities: 4. A CNN look at Ukraine's drone program, including some discussion of what might have hit Moscow: https://edition.cnn.com/2023/06/03/europe/ukraine-secretive-drone-program-russia-war-intl 5. Russia's next wave of replacement tanks? Def Mon joked that they might not have radiators (this is becoming a new inside joke about the condition of the stored tanks): 6. Details of a failed Russian attack against Spirne, north of Soledar and south of the Donets River: Steve 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battlefront.com Posted June 3, 2023 Share Posted June 3, 2023 8 minutes ago, akd said: Well, the drone was there to kill the TOR-2, so I guess there is a pretty good argument that a single missile is worth less than the entire system. Sure, but that still doesn't answer the question if the TOR-2 can even hit the drone. The video doesn't seem to indicate it had success, so I'm wondering what the real world success rate might be? Steve 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisl Posted June 3, 2023 Share Posted June 3, 2023 24 minutes ago, Battlefront.com said: Is it even possible for a TOR-2 missile to hit something that small? The operator didn't maneuver very much to avoid being hit. And even if it can, is it a good idea to spend many tens of thousands of Dollars to shoot down a drone costing a fraction of that? Even the Russians don't seem to think so: https://tass.com/defense/1207339 Steve Possible? Sure. But it probably takes a lot of luck. The radar signature of the drone will be really small, so that's not going to be that effective for a hit. The TOR system also can use optical tracking/guiding, but unless you can keep the drone in the crosshairs it's probably going to be hard to get a direct hit. Even if the missile has proximity triggers, they're probably not sensitive enough that a drone will set them off as the missile approaches. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan/california Posted June 4, 2023 Share Posted June 4, 2023 46 minutes ago, Battlefront.com said: 3. Some satellite BDA of the recent Storm Shaddow strike on Berdyansk port facilities: Watching the Russians attempt to supply cut off sections of the land bridge by sea is going to be good wholesome fun, complete with beach side barbecues. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan/california Posted June 4, 2023 Share Posted June 4, 2023 It is almost like he sold his soul in the worst bargain ever, and is being haunted now, before and even worse later. Oh wait, he DID do that... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris talpas Posted June 4, 2023 Share Posted June 4, 2023 Interview with Zelensky on the counter offensive. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danfrodo Posted June 4, 2023 Share Posted June 4, 2023 (edited) 28 minutes ago, dan/california said: It is almost like he sold his soul in the worst bargain ever, and is being haunted now, before and even worse later. Oh wait, he DID do that... I saw this and was thinking there might come a time when a new regime in Moscow starts handing over war criminals in order to reduce sanctions. Now that would be hilarious! Girkin in the dock at The Hague. Why not? He's a nobody, really. Free meat handed out to placate the west. And a Melitopol traitor is blown up. Another life-affirming assassination. And another day where UKR talks and talks about imminent attacks...... and we wait. I am still hoping for some raids across the Dnieper, but that is so very dangerous if not done extremely well. Edited June 4, 2023 by danfrodo 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harmon Rabb Posted June 4, 2023 Share Posted June 4, 2023 Just like this photo for some reason. Probably because this system helped save so many innocent lives. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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