wagtunes Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 I just did an artillery/aircraft test to see how it worked in comparison to CMBB. In order to test this, I really loaded up on both, looking more at casualty percentages caused by each as opposed to ground forces. Now I know you can't actually get stats for artillery and aircraft but by subtracting the casualties caused by ground troops from the total casualty count, you can get a combined total for both artillery and aircraft. Well, the total casualty figure was 115 killed and 116 wounded or 231 total. Total casualties caused by ground troops...231. Artillery and aircraft didn't account for even 1 casualty. Possible reasons. 1) Artillery and aircraft never made it to the battle area. 2) Incredibly unlucky. Now I saw a lot of what looked like ground flashes like lightning. I'm going to assume that was the artillery and/or aircraft. I didn't see any actual "explosions" like you did in CMBB so I really can't say for sure what I was seeing. I'm going to run another test in a wide open area with almost no way for ground troops to cause any casualties at all and see what happens. In the meantime, if anybody can tell me something about how artillery and aircraft work that's different from CMBB that might explain what I just witnessed, I'd greatly appreciate it because what I threw at the enemy should have accounted for something. I mean I'm talking total overkill. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ASL Veteran Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 It's hard to understand what you are asking because there aren't enough details in your description about what you are doing exactly. It should be obvious what artillery is doing if you are running the artillery yourself. Are you just assigning artillery to one side or another and waiting to see what the AI does with it or something? If you are doing stuff in the editor you can always place a bunch of enemy soldiers out in some open ground, assign yourself a forward observer, give the forward observer twenty batteries of 105mm howitzers and have at it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wagtunes Posted June 12, 2015 Author Share Posted June 12, 2015 It's hard to understand what you are asking because there aren't enough details in your description about what you are doing exactly. It should be obvious what artillery is doing if you are running the artillery yourself. Are you just assigning artillery to one side or another and waiting to see what the AI does with it or something? If you are doing stuff in the editor you can always place a bunch of enemy soldiers out in some open ground, assign yourself a forward observer, give the forward observer twenty batteries of 105mm howitzers and have at it. Thanks. I'm discovering that artillery and aircraft are much more complex in CMBN than in CMBB and most likely it is user error. I will walk through all the steps, make sure I didn't miss anything and THEN...if I'm still having problems I'll come back with more specifics so that we can get down to the bottom of what's actually happening. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baneman Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 Well, as ASL Vet said, we're not sure exactly what your test entails - are you fighting a complete battle then looking at your stats ? In my experience, an artillery bombardment against the AI will always generate casualties because the AI tends not to try to extricate men from underneath, whereas a human player will try to do that ( pre-emptively if possible ). Even so, often troops have to lie there and take the artillery stonk for several turns at least. So as long as you're targeting your artillery and calling in airstrikes where you know there are enemy, there's a very good chance of causing casualties. ( I assume in all this that you're talking about off-board artillery which you have called in via FO team or other HQ spotter. ) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wagtunes Posted June 12, 2015 Author Share Posted June 12, 2015 Well, as ASL Vet said, we're not sure exactly what your test entails - are you fighting a complete battle then looking at your stats ? In my experience, an artillery bombardment against the AI will always generate casualties because the AI tends not to try to extricate men from underneath, whereas a human player will try to do that ( pre-emptively if possible ). Even so, often troops have to lie there and take the artillery stonk for several turns at least. So as long as you're targeting your artillery and calling in airstrikes where you know there are enemy, there's a very good chance of causing casualties. ( I assume in all this that you're talking about off-board artillery which you have called in via FO team or other HQ spotter. ) Yes, off board. Like I said, works a little different from CMBB so me thinks that maybe there is some user error involved here. It is not out of the realm of possibility. Of course, as it says in the manual, it is always possible that the artillery and aircraft just didn't make it to the battlefront. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baneman Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 (edited) Well, assuming you have the artillery available to call in ( ie. artillery call button is not greyed-out ) and you then called in a strike ( with an FO or HQ unit ) and it went through the usual spotting rounds, then full fire-for-effect cycle - you'd see it land ( great honking big 'splosions ! ), you wouldn't be "unsure". You can also see the amount of ammo expended by an artillery strike when you click on each artillery "unit", so you can be sure that it's being fired. Edited June 12, 2015 by Baneman 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletpoint Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 You do know you have to actually call in the artillery and aircraft during the battle, right? If you don't, it won't do anything. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wagtunes Posted June 12, 2015 Author Share Posted June 12, 2015 You do know you have to actually call in the artillery and aircraft during the battle, right? If you don't, it won't do anything. Ah, and therein lies the big difference between CMBN and CMBB. With aircraft, no need to "call in". It just happened automatically if you set the planes up in your scenario editor. Like I said, big differences between the two games and I basically need to just forget CMBB ever existed and pretend I'm playing this game for the first time, otherwise I'm going to end up assuming things that aren't "true" and ultimately confuse the hell out of me. Oh the joys of being a newbie again. LOL. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sublime Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 arty and aircraft can cause extreme casualties in all the titles. often more than small arms. sorry bud i think its you 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wagtunes Posted June 12, 2015 Author Share Posted June 12, 2015 arty and aircraft can cause extreme casualties in all the titles. often more than small arms. sorry bud i think its you I have absolutely no doubt that it is. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bud Backer Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 The first game I played with IanL he gave me a good pounding with his artillery - it was if not decisive then significant in its impact on the outcome of the game. I struggle with artillery and am still learning to be effective with it, but when I played against others who used it well, it was near-devastating. Give yourself some time and practice. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wagtunes Posted June 12, 2015 Author Share Posted June 12, 2015 The first game I played with IanL he gave me a good pounding with his artillery - it was if not decisive then significant in its impact on the outcome of the game. I struggle with artillery and am still learning to be effective with it, but when I played against others who used it well, it was near-devastating. Give yourself some time and practice. Which is exactly what I intend to do. Thanks. Back to the drawing board. LOL. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mord Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 (edited) and I basically need to just forget CMBB ever existed and pretend I'm playing this game for the first time, otherwise I'm going to end up assuming things that aren't "true" and ultimately confuse the hell out of me. Yep. You've just had an epiphany. That was the advice we gave a lot of guys coming to CMBN (in 2011) and X2 after they skipped 4 years of CMSF, it applies even more so now. There are similarities between CMX1 and BN but it's best to forget what you knew and approach this version like you've never seen Combat Mission before. It takes some getting used to because your natural inclination is to draw from your past experiences. I think the biggest thing you'll have to wrap your head around is that where CMBB was basically on a macro level, CMX2 is at a micro level...much, much more fidelity in almost all areas therefore there will be big changes to lots of game mechanics. Eventually, all of this will be second nature. But hey, learning all the cool new features and mechanics is half the fun. Mord. Edited June 12, 2015 by Mord 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warts 'n' all Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 I have to agree with Mord. After years of treating CMx1 as a stroll in the park, I was amazed at how difficult I found CMBN. But, as much as I hate losing, I find myself loving the fact that I struggle with this game. It means that I learn something new every time I play it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Canadian Cat Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 Artillery and aircraft didn't account for even 1 casualty. Possible reasons. 1) Artillery and aircraft never made it to the battle area. 2) Incredibly unlucky. You forgot option 3) they only caused friendly fire casualties. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Canadian Cat Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 I struggle with artillery and am still learning to be effective with it, but when I played against others who used it well, it was near-devastating. Give yourself some time and practice. I like artillery Yeah the keys are to make sure you know where the other guy is, make sure you FO / HQ has good visibility, find the FO / HQ that can offer you the shortest call time and find a way to hold the other guys there while you are waiting for the good stuff. The first part is relatively easy - scouting. You can find the enemy even when you don't want to. The second part can be tricky - keeping your FO safe and close enough to see well. Several things help: give the FO a short circular cover arc so they don't go trying to shoot any thing they see, keep them behind an infantry screen (the enemy will want to shoot the guys shooting at them) and remember the FO does *not* need to have LOS to the area while you are waiting for the battery to get prepared. I often move the FO up to make the call and then pull back to sold cover for a while and then move back for the spotting rounds. That third part is the trickiest. You need a way to keep the enemy in the artillery kill zone. Sometimes it is not too bad because they are defending and so you can keep them there by not pushing to hard but attackers need to be slowed down with MGs and rifle squads. Or you can try to time their advance and call the artillery a little ahead of where they currently are. Target Reference Points (TRPs) also help when you are on the defence since you can set them up where you are pretty sure the attackers will be coming and they make the time between calling and rounds falling much shorter. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wagtunes Posted June 12, 2015 Author Share Posted June 12, 2015 Yep. You've just had an epiphany. That was the advice we gave a lot of guys coming to CMBN (in 2011) and X2 after they skipped 4 years of CMSF, it applies even more so now. There are similarities between CMX1 and BN but it's best to forget what you knew and approach this version like you've never seen Combat Mission before. It takes some getting used to because your natural inclination is to draw from your past experiences. I think the biggest thing you'll have to wrap your head around is that where CMBB was basically on a macro level, CMX2 is at a micro level...much, much more fidelity in almost all areas therefore there will be big changes to lots of game mechanics. Eventually, all of this will be second nature. But hey, learning all the cool new features and mechanics is half the fun. Mord. Yes, I am finding the micro management of this game to be staggering. In that respect, it has little in common with CMBB. But let me tell you, THIS is fun. Kill the icons and this is as realistic as it gets. No, I never play with icons turned on. Makes it look too much like a game IMO. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agusto Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 arty and aircraft can cause extreme casualties in all the titles. often more than small arms. sorry bud i think its you Yeah artillery is extremely deadly in CMBN, particularily the on map mortars in direct fire mode. You should really try out the on-map mortars, wagtunes. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wagtunes Posted June 12, 2015 Author Share Posted June 12, 2015 Yeah artillery is extremely deadly in CMBN, particularily the on map mortars in direct fire mode. You should really try out the on-map mortars, wagtunes. Yeah, gonna go through everything again. It will probably take me a while (a LONG while) but I'll eventually get the hang of all this. FWIW, this game totally blows away all previous versions. Great job Battlefront! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mord Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 Yes, I am finding the micro management of this game to be staggering. In that respect, it has little in common with CMBB. But let me tell you, THIS is fun. Kill the icons and this is as realistic as it gets. No, I never play with icons turned on. Makes it look too much like a game IMO. Yeah, I have stuff on when I am giving orders and need to get my bearings, but once I view the turn I want all the "game" assists off to keep the immersion factor high. Here, Rambler made this at my request a few years back. It's really cool when guys get hit. I use it in all my CM games. http://www.battlefront.com/index.php?option=com_remository&Itemid=314&func=fileinfo&id=1248 FWIW, this game totally blows away all previous versions. Great job Battlefront! It's nice watching a diehard CMX1er jump in with optimism and an open mind. You wouldn't believe some of the pessimism and nastiness that when on here back when the new engine was announced. AND you are right, it sure does. Mord. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wagtunes Posted June 12, 2015 Author Share Posted June 12, 2015 Yeah, I have stuff on when I am giving orders and need to get my bearings, but once I view the turn I want all the "game" assists off to keep the immersion factor high. Here, Rambler made this at my request a few years back. It's really cool when guys get hit. I use it in all my CM games. http://www.battlefront.com/index.php?option=com_remository&Itemid=314&func=fileinfo&id=1248 It's nice watching a diehard CMX1er jump in with optimism and an open mind. You wouldn't believe some of the pessimism and nastiness that when on here back when the new engine was announced. AND you are right, it sure does. Mord. See, I don't get that. The old game, while it was still good, was graphically, well how can I put this nicely? Substandard. These graphics are amazing. The gunfire, explosions, everything is so much better. It's the way I always envisioned this game. Once I get all the logistics down, I have no doubt that you won't be able to pry me away from CMBN. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pak40 Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 Ah, and therein lies the big difference between CMBN and CMBB. With aircraft, no need to "call in". It just happened automatically if you set the planes up in your scenario editor. Like I said, big differences between the two games and I basically need to just forget CMBB ever existed and pretend I'm playing this game for the first time, otherwise I'm going to end up assuming things that aren't "true" and ultimately confuse the hell out of me. Oh the joys of being a newbie again. LOL. Read the manual. For some reason a lot of new players don't even bother with the manual but it will answer 90% of your questions. Well, maybe 80%. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wagtunes Posted June 12, 2015 Author Share Posted June 12, 2015 Read the manual. For some reason a lot of new players don't even bother with the manual but it will answer 90% of your questions. Well, maybe 80%. I actually read the CMBB manual cover to cover twice. I guess I should probably do the same with CMBN. Gonna be some LONG nights by the lamplight. LOL. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Canadian Cat Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 CMBN ships with two manuals. One for the engine and one for the title. Just FYI in case you might have missed it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wagtunes Posted June 12, 2015 Author Share Posted June 12, 2015 CMBN ships with two manuals. One for the engine and one for the title. Just FYI in case you might have missed it. I only received one manual in the mail. However, I did get 2 with the download version. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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