Axis Battle Report - The Gamey SOB Challenge

[Doug Williams]

So Bil is going on vacay until the 15th. In the meantime, Squire Sburke is going to skool me on some BFC forum YT embedding skilz.

[Holien]

I wonder how the elevation difference impacts the angle of the shell hitting the Sherman. Perhaps that explains the lack of penetration?

Yes makes a big difference and the Sherman is not as weak as many people believe. So being hull down higher up will help a lot.

[General Jack Ripper]

Use shorter waypoints to keep your men from bunching up. I usually plot a waypoint every 3 AS or so. It keeps your guys from moving in a huge single file line.

[womble]

Use shorter waypoints to keep your men from bunching up. I usually plot a waypoint every 3 AS or so. It keeps your guys from moving in a huge single file line.

And split your squads if you're bothered about them bunching up.

[Doug Williams]

Yea, I plan to split my squads next turn. Also, like SLIM pointed out, I'm going to have to start micromanaging their movement now that we are in contact.

[c3k]

Egads! Platoon, mob: Forward! 

 

I don't want to turn this into a "this is what I'd do" thread, so I'll refrain from any further infantry commentary.

 

 

If you're concerned about a Panther immob, why not let it get immob'ed where it can fire all game and have an effect?

[Bud Backer]

Use shorter waypoints to keep your men from bunching up. I usually plot a waypoint every 3 AS or so. It keeps your guys from moving in a huge single file line.

But won't that slow down overall movement as they pause at each waypoint?

[Doug Williams]

@c3k Pretty much a mass exodus into cover from where the game had my troops all jumbled up together in my tiny starting zone, and possibly in the LoS of the Sherms that Bil had parked up on the high ground of his starting zone (as I suspected he would). I'll get them spread out and into more effective positions in the coming turns. I'm not really concerned about a Panther immobilization. I'm more worried about a lucky gun hit disabling the main gun. I'm actually pretty happy with their positions right now, though I may move the right one forward a bit more. I invite you to load up the map as a QB, pick a tank and mouse around the map with the Move command so you can get a better idea of how much of the terrain is impassible to vehicles.  :-)

 

@Bud-B Good point. The more waypoints, the the more you slow movement down.

 

This map is actually quite small for the amount of troops we started with. I'm a little suprised that Bil chose this one of the three I asked him to look at. IIRC, the other two were larger, but still mountainous. This is going to be a slugfest, not a game of maneuver, which will probably work in my favor.

[A Canadian Cat]

If I understand the game mechanics properly, any time an armor unit moves during a WEGO turn, it suffers an accuracy penalty for the entire turn.

 

Just so no one gets the wrong idea... That is not the case.  Vehicles on the move suffer a reduction in accuracy but nothing lasts a whole turn, it is based on what the vehicle is actually doing at the time it aims and fires. 

 

You might remembering the bug from long ago where any vehicle with a movement order suffered from a reduction in accuracy.  So if you had tank with a move order and it was on permanent pause it would fire with less accuracy than the same tank with no movement order at all.  That is not longer the case and the issue has been fixed.

[Doug Williams]

You might remembering the bug from long ago where any vehicle with a movement order suffered from a reduction in accuracy.  So if you had tank with a move order and it was on permanent pause it would fire with less accuracy than the same tank with no movement order at all.  That is not longer the case and the issue has been fixed.

 

That's good to know, and yes, that probably is what I was remembering. Thanks.

[Doug Williams]

I'm beginning to believe that I may be placing too much faith in the Panther's frontal armor VS the Sherman 75s, especially given their height advantage......

 

(Yes, I've been doing some experimenting VS the AI.)

[Holien]

Yep... Be worried, but could not say that in my previous comment, glad you have done some checking as angles very very important for the Panther!!!

[Holien]

You have two weeks to really get to grips with the map and the forces, from your comments I would guess you will be using it wisely?

[Doug Williams]

You have two weeks to really get to grips with the map and the forces, from your comments I would guess you will be using it wisely?

 

Yes.......yes I will.

[Doug Williams]

I just redid my file #7. Changed a few things based on my experiments against the AI. Asked Bil if he minded beforehand, and his answer was ambiguous, so I took that as a "go ahead". :-) Is this cheating? Bil can still use my old file #7 when he gets back from vacation ("holiday", for you Europeans), if he wants (assuming he saved it).

 

I'm getting the feeling that I am expected to lose, and lose badly, in this match. That may well turn out to be the case, but I assure you men that I have won many PBEM games, so don't count me out just yet. Bil may be a force of nature, but the RNG bows to no man, and even a broken watch is right, twice a day.

[sburke]

Well Bil definitely has a track record, but unbeatable?  No and this map looks like it is going to end up a short range slugfest.  I'd hesitate to make any predictions at this point other than this is going to be/is fun to watch.    More beer please, yes a pitcher, thank you.

[Holien]

If it was me and I had not processed the turn I would be OK with using the updated one.

I think the title of the thread is spot on, especially as you are going over map closely outside this game. NP from my POV as it is a game....

I rarely play QB's as the limited gaming time I get is invested into scenarios usually playing double blind, so your level of "research" would be wrong. But for QB's it seems fine IMO.

[Doug Williams]

I probably play 50/50 scenarios/QBs when I play PBEMs. Usually whichever my opponent wants. I always tell my opponent if I have played a scenario before, because that does give an advantage.

 

I can't really recreate my game VS bill by playing the AI on the same map because (1) I don't know Bil's force pick, and (2) I'm sure Bil's tactics are 1000x better than those of the AI.

[General Jack Ripper]

But won't that slow down overall movement as they pause at each waypoint?

 

If your squads are split into teams, then short waypoints won't slow you down too much. Troops don't actually "pause" at each waypoint so much as just "wait for everyone to arrive" before moving on. Small teams don't have to wait as long because instead of waiting for 13 guys to get in position, you only have to wait for 4 or 5.

You'll lose maybe 5 seconds every minute, which is relatively insignificant. If you need to move fast, plot a series of short [Quick] moves with a 5 second pause at each waypoint. Your troops will move fast, but not become too fatigued. It also works to reduce fatigue while using [Hunt], using 3 AS length waypoints with 10 second pauses will ensure you can cross vast distances using [Hunt] without your men getting exhausted.

It is slower than running straight to your destination, but it's a heck of a lot safer when contact is imminent.

[Holien]

It also works to reduce fatigue while using [Hunt], using 3 AS length waypoints with 10 second pauses will ensure you can cross vast distances using [Hunt] without your men getting exhausted.

It is slower than running straight to your destination, but it's a heck of a lot safer when contact is imminent.

You learn something new everyday, I just wish I could keep it remembered....

Useful tip as I rarely use hunt due to troops getting fatigued.

[c3k]

Each waypoint creates a game-mandated pause until all the teams are present, then the inchworm goes to the next one. Fewer waypoints mean fewer delays. Fewer sub-elements mean shorter delays. So, for the shortest possible delay use one team, one waypoint. This means the most heavily laden guy may be some distance behind. (Yes, every item is allocated to specific individual and weight carries a penalty.) (A three-team squad waits for all 3 teams to arrive/congregate at each waypoint. That can be frustrating...)

 

I tend to split my squads and use Quick as my default move order. All subject to variability as conditions warrant.

 

 

Panther: it is a MEDIUM tank, not some sort of uber monster. They are tough, especially if they have a height advantage and frontal aspect towards the enemy. Otherwise, like other tanks, they can be destroyed by the right weapon. Sub-system damage can render them irrelevant to the fight.

[Bud Backer]

You learn something new everyday, I just wish I could keep it remembered....

Useful tip as I rarely use hunt due to troops getting fatigued.

Lol same here! Great stuff comes out of these threads!

[Doug Williams]

Panther: it is a MEDIUM tank, not some sort of uber monster. They are tough, especially if they have a height advantage and frontal aspect towards the enemy. Otherwise, like other tanks, they can be destroyed by the right weapon. Sub-system damage can render them irrelevant to the fight.

 

I have found their frontal armor to be exceedingly resistant to the US 75mm, but I may have never used them against Sherms that had a big height advantage prior to this game.

 

@SLIM thanks for the movement tips.

[MOS:96B2P]

Each waypoint creates a game-mandated pause until all the teams are present, then the inchworm goes to the next one. Fewer waypoints mean fewer delays. Fewer sub-elements mean shorter delays. So, for the shortest possible delay use one team, one waypoint. This means the most heavily laden guy may be some distance behind. (Yes, every item is allocated to specific individual and weight carries a penalty.) (A three-team squad waits for all 3 teams to arrive/congregate at each waypoint. That can be frustrating...)

 

I tend to split my squads and use Quick as my default move order. All subject to variability as conditions warrant.  <snip>

 

This is the best most understandable explanation of infantry and waypoints I think I have seen.  Wish I would have know / understood this when I first started playing.  If this was added to the game manual verbatim, under the Move Commands section, it would be a good thing.

[A Canadian Cat]

There ya go Ken for manual writer

This is the reason why after a while your platoon HQ can end up leading the way after a series of way points: HQ is usually a small team and therefore they take less time to get ready to go again.