88mm gun please be transportable and (semi-deployed)

[Skwabie]

Maybe I am misunderstanding you, but as far as I can tell you're suggesting that the German troops (including of course the vaunted SS!) modeled more weakly than they should be because there are no Nazis (ie, "the nation behind it") to tell Battlefront how it should be....really??

right and everybody hates Nazis... they jump at even the slightest hint of it. see, tis my point exactly! we all love a video game where their sorry behinds can be kicked no. With enough ppl feeling the same way, does it become a market demand?..

[Fizou]

either it is my english or yours....i really do not understand what you are trying to tell me.

Id wager its yours. He is not saying your a troll though. Volksgrenadier on the other hand..

Implying that all German weaponsystems where superior and are undermodeled.

[76mm]

right and everybody hates Nazis... they jump at even the slightest hint of it. see, tis my point exactly! we all love a video game where their sorry behinds can be kicked no. With enough ppl feeling the same way, does it become a market demand?..

Actually, no, not everyone wants a game where Nazis can be kicked. Some want a game where they are invincible...some (most on this forum?) want a game where the strengths and weaknesses of both sides are reflected as accurately as possible.

While I'm sure we can argue about whether this weapon system (or entire army!) is under-modeled or over-modeled, I don't think it is correct or fair to suggest that Battlefront tweaks the modelling to sell more games. In fact, I think it is kind of ridiculous to suggest this...

[Skwabie]

Some want it to be fair and square for sure, especially many on this forum who are long time veterans of the game. But I'm sure there're many out there who just wanna have some fun and if the game give them an advantage they will be happy. Different ppl different minds and thoughts and all that. Personally I believe everyone has a 'side' no matter how noble they believe/claim/want to be... but that's just me. The weapon system modelling's hard evidence although very very trivia is there if one digs for it.

[womble]

either it is my english or yours....i really do not understand what you are trying to tell me.

It's yours.

Volksgrenadier is putting false allegations in his posts. Either he is ignorant (excusable, to a point) or has an agenda and is doing it knowingly. I think it's a little from column A and a little from column B. At the very least he is guilty of assuming that any wrong originates from a deliberate attempt by BFC to make German arms more puny than they ought to be, when, if there are inaccuracies, they're in source data (or the legitimate differences in interpretation thereof) or stem from game engine limitations. And he skirts the edge of ban-territory upon occasion.

[Kauz]

It's yours.

Volksgrenadier is putting false allegations in his posts. Either he is ignorant (excusable, to a point) or has an agenda and is doing it knowingly. I think it's a little from column A and a little from column B. At the very least he is guilty of assuming that any wrong originates from a deliberate attempt by BFC to make German arms more puny than they ought to be, when, if there are inaccuracies, they're in source data (or the legitimate differences in interpretation thereof) or stem from game engine limitations. And he skirts the edge of ban-territory upon occasion.

May be it is my english...and now i believe i understand what you want to tell me ....even your last sentences is hard to understand ...(google translator did not help either)

Doesn´t matter!

I do not think VG said anything wrong in this thread....

nevertheless i do not know if he talking about cmbb or cmrt.

In case of the MG34/42 modelling is a problem of all BF games in my opinion.

When i played CMAK i was wondering about the high firepower of BAR and bren guns in relation to Mg34/42....while the german weapons are able to provide between 310-450 accurate rounds per minute (statisically with reload time, barrel change, depending on light or heavy mount and type of gun)

the BAR only provides 80 rpm ....but in CMAK the BAR had 24 and the Mg34 something about 36 firepower...

i found it quite obvious that the german machine guns were quite undermodelled and always hoped that the developer would be allowing the modders to change the firepower values.

It never happened.

....the sloped armor thing of the sdkfz halftracks that VG mentioned i do not support ....the armor was just thin and the sloping only helps against rifle/MG rounds....If he is saying that the sdkfz are not able to protect itself against these rounds i would understand his opinion...if he says that the sdkfz sloped armor should help against Anti tank rounds then i do not support his writing.

VG seems to have the opinion that the devs do not really care about argumentations ...it seems not important if someone is writing here or not.

There is no dialog.

And i can understand this feeling.

In my case (2 threads are outwhere) i would appreciate that the devs or the BF propaganda brigade would react and tell me something like the following (only examples/suggestions!!!):

"Hello Kauz, we understand your arguments A), and C) in the 88mm thread. And there is nothing to say against it. But sorry to say we are going to set priorities in another way. Actually we are trying to build up some new camouflage textures for the Panther and trying to build a new add-on which covers the months october and half of november 1944. May be we will establish a moveable and semi deployed 88mm gun, but later....i guess you have to wait about 15-20 months before we can work on that thing. Sure we are going to tell you in a FAQ what priorities we are going to work on first before. "

Or in case of MG34/42:

"Hello Mr. X, we are aware of the firepower problems. But we think some of the gamers would be dissapointed in the game if they would have to suffer too much as russians while fighting german (heavy) machine guns.

Especially in case of the western scenarios/games we could also not afford to loose to many customers in the anglo americans area in case we would establish the more realistic firepower values of bren/bar/mg34/42.

Sure it is still possible to win/ suppress the german machine gunners....but it would take more attentions or ressources and with our company strategy going on real time and better grafics we try to aquire new customers who are may be more like casual gamers....theses wouldn´t play allies again....even if they would have the bigger numbres in men in material like in real life. Additionaly it would be complex and long to give so many orders ...an additional point that people would not want to play allies. So we are more in balancing issues."

or in case of Modding:

"Hello Mr.X, we understand your interest in changing the values of units.

But we would have the feeling people do not appreciate our work if we allow them to do changes in the data tables. Despite this we think we already did it right....and there is no need for a changes. Believe us, we did a lot of research work and did interpretate these informations in a right and fair way.

So please just focus on making textures and sounds for units. "

[Skwabie]

88 still good on this topic. 4 guns in the trenches. Range is ~1500m.

The 4 IS-2 bounce numerous shots but succumb in the end. 88 lost a few crews but still functional. The majority of IS-2s rounds missed.

I think the guns' small profile is key. Had it been 4 Tigers the result will not be like this I'm 100% certain.

[LUCASWILLEN05]

May be it is my english...and now i believe i understand what you want to tell me ....even your last sentences is hard to understand ...(google translator did not help either)

Doesn´t matter!

I do not think VG said anything wrong in this thread....

nevertheless i do not know if he talking about cmbb or cmrt.

In case of the MG34/42 modelling is a problem of all BF games in my opinion.

When i played CMAK i was wondering about the high firepower of BAR and bren guns in relation to Mg34/42....while the german weapons are able to provide between 310-450 accurate rounds per minute (statisically with reload time, barrel change, depending on light or heavy mount and type of gun)

the BAR only provides 80 rpm ....but in CMAK the BAR had 24 and the Mg34 something about 36 firepower...

i found it quite obvious that the german machine guns were quite undermodelled and always hoped that the developer would be allowing the modders to change the firepower values.

It never happened.

....the sloped armor thing of the sdkfz halftracks that VG mentioned i do not support ....the armor was just thin and the sloping only helps against rifle/MG rounds....If he is saying that the sdkfz are not able to protect itself against these rounds i would understand his opinion...if he says that the sdkfz sloped armor should help against Anti tank rounds then i do not support his writing.

VG seems to have the opinion that the devs do not really care about argumentations ...it seems not important if someone is writing here or not.

There is no dialog.

And i can understand this feeling.

In my case (2 threads are outwhere) i would appreciate that the devs or the BF propaganda brigade would react and tell me something like the following (only examples/suggestions!!!):

"Hello Kauz, we understand your arguments A), and C) in the 88mm thread. And there is nothing to say against it. But sorry to say we are going to set priorities in another way. Actually we are trying to build up some new camouflage textures for the Panther and trying to build a new add-on which covers the months october and half of november 1944. May be we will establish a moveable and semi deployed 88mm gun, but later....i guess you have to wait about 15-20 months before we can work on that thing. Sure we are going to tell you in a FAQ what priorities we are going to work on first before. "

Or in case of MG34/42:

"Hello Mr. X, we are aware of the firepower problems. But we think some of the gamers would be dissapointed in the game if they would have to suffer too much as russians while fighting german (heavy) machine guns.

Especially in case of the western scenarios/games we could also not afford to loose to many customers in the anglo americans area in case we would establish the more realistic firepower values of bren/bar/mg34/42.

Sure it is still possible to win/ suppress the german machine gunners....but it would take more attentions or ressources and with our company strategy going on real time and better grafics we try to aquire new customers who are may be more like casual gamers....theses wouldn´t play allies again....even if they would have the bigger numbres in men in material like in real life. Additionaly it would be complex and long to give so many orders ...an additional point that people would not want to play allies. So we are more in balancing issues."

or in case of Modding:

"Hello Mr.X, we understand your interest in changing the values of units.

But we would have the feeling people do not appreciate our work if we allow them to do changes in the data tables. Despite this we think we already did it right....and there is no need for a changes. Believe us, we did a lot of research work and did interpretate these informations in a right and fair way.

So please just focus on making textures and sounds for units. "

Besdes weapons will rarely perform on the battlefield at the same high level as on the test range. If weapons effectiveness in game has been downgraded from ideal performance that sounds like a good simulation decision to me. If it feels more or less right and we are getting believable casualty rates when applying realistic battlefield tactics it does not seem lie a massively important issue to me

[PhilM]

May be it is my english...and now i believe i understand what you want to tell me ....even your last sentences is hard to understand ...(google translator did not help either)

Doesn´t matter!

I do not think VG said anything wrong in this thread....

nevertheless i do not know if he talking about cmbb or cmrt.

In case of the MG34/42 modelling is a problem of all BF games in my opinion.

When i played CMAK i was wondering about the high firepower of BAR and bren guns in relation to Mg34/42....while the german weapons are able to provide between 310-450 accurate rounds per minute (statisically with reload time, barrel change, depending on light or heavy mount and type of gun)

the BAR only provides 80 rpm ....but in CMAK the BAR had 24 and the Mg34 something about 36 firepower...

i found it quite obvious that the german machine guns were quite undermodelled and always hoped that the developer would be allowing the modders to change the firepower values.

It never happened.

....the sloped armor thing of the sdkfz halftracks that VG mentioned i do not support ....the armor was just thin and the sloping only helps against rifle/MG rounds....If he is saying that the sdkfz are not able to protect itself against these rounds i would understand his opinion...if he says that the sdkfz sloped armor should help against Anti tank rounds then i do not support his writing.

VG seems to have the opinion that the devs do not really care about argumentations ...it seems not important if someone is writing here or not.

There is no dialog.

And i can understand this feeling.

In my case (2 threads are outwhere) i would appreciate that the devs or the BF propaganda brigade would react and tell me something like the following (only examples/suggestions!!!):

"Hello Kauz, we understand your arguments A), and C) in the 88mm thread. And there is nothing to say against it. But sorry to say we are going to set priorities in another way. Actually we are trying to build up some new camouflage textures for the Panther and trying to build a new add-on which covers the months october and half of november 1944. May be we will establish a moveable and semi deployed 88mm gun, but later....i guess you have to wait about 15-20 months before we can work on that thing. Sure we are going to tell you in a FAQ what priorities we are going to work on first before. "

Or in case of MG34/42:

"Hello Mr. X, we are aware of the firepower problems. But we think some of the gamers would be dissapointed in the game if they would have to suffer too much as russians while fighting german (heavy) machine guns.

Especially in case of the western scenarios/games we could also not afford to loose to many customers in the anglo americans area in case we would establish the more realistic firepower values of bren/bar/mg34/42.

Sure it is still possible to win/ suppress the german machine gunners....but it would take more attentions or ressources and with our company strategy going on real time and better grafics we try to aquire new customers who are may be more like casual gamers....theses wouldn´t play allies again....even if they would have the bigger numbres in men in material like in real life. Additionaly it would be complex and long to give so many orders ...an additional point that people would not want to play allies. So we are more in balancing issues."

or in case of Modding:

"Hello Mr.X, we understand your interest in changing the values of units.

But we would have the feeling people do not appreciate our work if we allow them to do changes in the data tables. Despite this we think we already did it right....and there is no need for a changes. Believe us, we did a lot of research work and did interpretate these informations in a right and fair way.

So please just focus on making textures and sounds for units. "

Probably against my better judgement, I'll bite ...

My bold bits of your post above: this is what you think BF should apologise for over the way the games models these aspects? In a word ... rubbish!

Does that work with Google translate?

Site a deployed MG42 correctly, and *any* squad of *any* nation it catches in its sights will be mincemeat in a very short time, and at a range at which their personal weapons are of limited use ...

Cannot bother going on, really ...

[Blazing 88's]

...B. It is well known that the 88mm was able to fire and fight without establishing the cruciform mount. Just being still on wheels. The developer could establish this mode as "semi-deployed" (similar to heavy machine guns).

Some footage of this you can watch for example in following link at video-minutes 0:52;1:02;1:03;1:10;1:11;1:35:

]

Great footage. Awesome gun.

Actually, no, not everyone wants a game where Nazis can be kicked. Some want a game where they are invincible...some (most on this forum?) want a game where the strengths and weaknesses of both sides are reflected as accurately as possible...

Which is why what Kauz has pointed out and shown in the video clip should be modeled in CM. That gun was a Combat Mission changer.

While I'm sure we can argue about whether this weapon system (or entire army!) is under-modeled or over-modeled, I don't think it is correct or fair to suggest that Battlefront tweaks the modelling to sell more games. In fact, I think it is kind of ridiculous to suggest this...

Nah no need for that, just start CMx2 game theaters late in the war like they did.

I myself have no interest in purchasing a battle for Berlin module before say an earlier time period (Barbarossa or at least Kursk). I will probably pass purchasing any late war modules (1945). 1944 is as late in the War that I like to go when doing any WWII battles, especially since I prefer to play only the German side.

Just my two cents.

[zmoney]

I too would like mobile 88's. But I have not witnessed the under modeled German units that some seem to be whining about. Maybe you guys just place your units in unfavorable situations. Like taking on an smg squad at 15 meters with rifle men. After your German rifle men got wiped out you would probably claim how un-relistic it was because even though your troops only had rifles they were German after all.

Believe it or not the allies to include the Russians had military equipment that could kill their enemies. The sense I get from you guys is the Germans should have won because they had magical weapons and only lost because the supply of ferry dust ran out.

I do think the game accurately reflects the equiptment of the time accurately I regularly best t34-85 with PzIV. At a rate of roughly 5/2. So again maybe it is how you fellows are using the equipment.

[Skwabie]

Probably against my better judgement, I'll bite ...

My bold bits of your post above: this is what you think BF should apologise for over the way the games models these aspects? In a word ... rubbish!

actually that part of Kauz' post has some sarcasm in there. But.. just my interpret.

It does merit some truth tho. However usually this kinda point might be too subtle to literally type it out on the forum i reckon:|

[sburke]

actually that part of Kauz' post has some sarcasm in there. But.. just my interpret.

It does merit some truth tho. However usually this kinda point might be too subtle to literally type it out on the forum i reckon:|

Possibly. I think what players found and BF agreed with is that in general MGs were under modeled. That probably affected the German MGs disproportionately. That was adjusted and right now a German MG is a tough nut to take on IF as Philm said, you position them properly. I think that is a key item here. CM will generally display the strengths and weaknesses of a unit if employed properly. How many of us actually do that is a whole other question. There has been reams of information in this forum written about tactical deployment of different weapons systems but I think few of us (myself included) have really mastered understanding or employing those lessons.

As to the 88s, I think BF has a different position as to their TACTICAL redeployment. It is one thing to say they are employed as a fire brigade to head off Russian tank attacks, it's quite another to say they were shifted around a tactical battlefield during a 1-2 hour time frame in a "whack-a-mole" manner. Positioning an 88 takes a bit more than saying- "hey that looks like a good spot over there, it even has a little shade from the sun and not so many flies to bother me while I am eating". Yes I can see on the video that the gun is still on the wheels, but I can also see the side stabilizers deployed and adjusted to keep the gun from pitching over when it fired. I also do not see any indication at all in the video of it being moved and deployed or how long it would take them to set up like that. Last and probably most important to BF is yes they could do that but under what conditions - remember a player will always use a feature if available even if the reality is it was infrequently used or discouraged. It is what we do. As someone else noted, we'd need the prime mover in the game. Does anyone think the German army ran those prime movers around in range of Russian guns? The prime mover itself was probably worth more to the Germans than a couple of those guns. As I understand it the German army was chronically short of motorized vehicles in general and movers in particular - it is no coincidence that the Horse drawn artillery unit is so typical of the German army all the way into 1945. Lose that and those 88s aren't going anywhere. You now have an immobile, highly visible unit that is not dug in...mortar anyone?

I think if CM was at a larger scale then perhaps you'd see BF reconsider. Hell they may even reconsider based on this thread, but I doubt it. I do find it amusing though that it is almost always the complaint German weapons systems are under modeled. We almost never hear anyone say, hey the T34/Sherman/Churchill/Firefly is under modeled. Remember the shock players had with CMFI seeing the Sherman as the King of the battlefield?

[sburke]

VG seems to have the opinion that the devs do not really care about argumentations ...it seems not important if someone is writing here or not.

There is no dialog.

And i can understand this feeling.

In my case (2 threads are outwhere) i would appreciate that the devs or the BF propaganda brigade would react and tell me something like the following (only examples/suggestions!!!):

Kauz, there is nothing personal in the general lack of direct replies. Simply put there is a limitation on time. Steve can either focus on the game or the forum. Some times he does reply to specific items, but it is pretty rare. Doesn't mean he doesn't see it, some of these same issues are discussed on the beta side. In fact that is a big reason why folks agree to be beta testers. We have higher odds of getting specific answers, though even then it is not always anything more than "not right now".

VG has an axe to grind. While he may be able to cite specific items as issues as noted by others there is a lot more on the agenda. Don't get distracted by the trivia into thinking he has the same concerns or intent as yourself.

As to MGs as noted above there was a general discussion as to MG effectiveness for suppression etc. That has been increased across the board and my experience has been German MGs are deadly. That was done after an incredible amount of testing as BF does not make changes lightly. They struggle to be as close as they can to actual effect and determining actual effect has to be more than just what we perceive to be a weapons capabilities. BF is not going to change them to appeal to some mythical commercial demand nor will they do so for some mythical capability based on war time propaganda. The German army in particular has created a lot of hype about capabilities in WW2 for a lot of different reasons, much of which doesn't hold up well to scientific verification. On the other hand some of their weapons systems do. Figuring out truth from hype is something BF takes very seriously.

The game is far from perfect as even Steve and Charles would note. Within the limitations of what they are working with however it is pretty darn good and they are always open to anything that is not accurate. The requirements however to get them to change behavior are pretty rigorous and a video or two or stories from one individual will not cut it. If you feel strongly that there is something in the game that needs changing be prepared to roll up your sleeves and work. Believe me the beta testers are held to the same standard and I am continually amazed at the amount of testing time these guys put in to verify different aspects of the game.

[MikeyD]

88s were largely employed to fired down the length of a valley at opposing armor or something similar. CM maps, even the large ones, usually have fields of fire so restricted that the guns are in danger of small arms fire once spotted. That's not exactly a flaw of the game. CM is infantry-heavy despite all the armor, maps where infantry can't close to within rifle range are extremely vexing to play. People create 'test maps' where AT guns face off against tanks from 2000m+ but they don't create many gameplay maps like that

[76mm]

I'd be all for being able to deploy 88s in game, but I don't think it would end well most of the time. Even if the gun can be deployed in two minutes or whatever, I think that on most maps, they'd never get a chance to deploy because the prime mover would be blown away before the gun was able to deploy. As mentioned, most maps are less than two km across, and if you're trying to deploy an 88 while the enemy was within 2 km, I think you're screwed.

For this to really work, you would need to create special maps/scenarios to allow the 88s to set up and then let the enemy come to them--maps 4-5 kilometers wide. From my experience with normal AT guns in CMRT, trying to move them and set them up during a battle usually does not end well, and I don't think 88s would be any different...

[sburke]

I'd be all for being able to deploy 88s in game, but I don't think it would end well most of the time. Even if the gun can be deployed in two minutes or whatever, I think that on most maps, they'd never get a chance to deploy because the prime mover would be blown away before the gun was able to deploy. As mentioned, most maps are less than two km across, and if you're trying to deploy an 88 while the enemy was within 2 km, I think you're screwed.

For this to really work, you would need to create special maps/scenarios to allow the 88s to set up and then let the enemy come to them--maps 4-5 kilometers wide. From my experience with normal AT guns in CMRT, trying to move them and set them up during a battle usually does not end well, and I don't think 88s would be any different...

the upside of one the 3.0 changes is now you can create a map 2x6. The potential has changed to be able utilize the function. It is possible based on that it could be revisited.

[akd]

Exactly.

What makes it so ridiculous is that Combat Mission is advertised with modeling of the optics! But that the precise optics of the soviet tank only goes up to 800 m does not matter at all...

What the hell are you talking about?

But it can't be said there was no system, behind it: the German MG42 has the same power as any other HMG,

No, it produces a significantly greater volume of fire, and it is usable in the light role.

the Panther is brittle like a china plate,

Prove it wrong.

a Stuka dive bomber has not a better accuracy than any ordinary flyover bomber

All aircraft are ridiculously accurate. There is no valid argument to make the Stuka extra-ridculously accurate, plus I see no evidence that it is any more vulnerable than other aircraft in the game, yet it should be.

and the angled plates of the Sdkfz's are penetrable as if they were vertically angled.

no they aren't

artificially balancing the models...

There is zero artificial balancing between models in CM. If something is wrong, you must prove it wrong with scientific testing and documentation. It will probably be changed if you can, although it may not happen instantly.

[wadepm]

Nashorn? :confused:

If you like mobile 88s try the Nashorn. As soon as they allow us to purchase them in a QB...

[snarre]

its seems like that many player ho are mayby new in this game, start to play this like COH or MOW and then they forgot stradegy and good planing . example 88 if i have thous on field . im newer gona place them to get front shot . ewery time side shot or ambus place . then about thous panthers and armor strength , there is long talking all ready about thous and german tanks are not under modelled

[Blazing 88's]

its seems like that many player ho are mayby new in this game, start to play this like COH or MOW and then they forgot stradegy and good planing..

I can whole heartily say this is not me.

...example 88 if i have thous on field . im newer gona place them to get front shot . ewery time side shot or ambus place . then about thous panthers and armor strength , there is long talking all ready about thous and german tanks are not under modelled

For me anyways, I would like for it to be an option, I just want it modeled. Especially for when a North African Cmx2 game comes into play down the road, or even for a possible earlier time period Eastern Front module, or say France 1940 (wink wink nudge nudge).

The German player shouldn't have to be limited with this piece of equipment. If a player wants to use it like in the video clips, still limbered up to a degree, he should be allowed to have this option if it can be modeled. If not so be it. It is not a game killer that is for sure.

[snarre]

88 work beter on earlier years and yah 88 should be movable like it was in cbm:bb but we had to remeber , maps are not sou big yet and we dont have operations sou its not sou big thing to get 88 to movable. Model this thing is not hard but its take time lots of.

[Blazing 88's]

88 work beter on earlier years and yah 88 should be movable like it was in cbm:bb but we had to remeber , maps are not sou big yet and we dont have operations sou its not sou big thing to get 88 to movable. Model this thing is not hard but its take time lots of.

VVVV

the upside of one the 3.0 changes is now you can create a map 2x6. The potential has changed to be able utilize the function. It is possible based on that it could be revisited.

................

[Kauz]

In CM:BB the 88mm build up time was something about 8-10 minutes if i remember right and not 2,5 minute.....and it was not retransportable (3,5min in real life) and it was not capable to firing quite instantly in the mentioned semi-deployed mode still being on wheels.

I hoped all that would be corrected in CMRT.....but it happened the opposite...it got worse.

transportable Antitank-guns and semi-deployed modes are already in the game even sdkfz transport vehicle....i do not think it should be a big "modelleing" issue to give the 88mm their flexiblity.

Someone may say it is not a gamekiller....sure...may be....but what else could be a "real" game killer? I won´t buy the 88mm in its actual condition.....to unflexible and to vulnerable (because of the bad protection/trench system and the high spotting ability and firstshot accuracy of tanks, even on high distances and deep entrenched 88mm)

The germans used the 88mm gun in all roles especially as Anti-tank weapons in roles of fire brigades (if i have it correct in mind there were about 20 000...10 000 as AA in homeland and 10 000 at the fronts) the 88mm was quite often the best way to undermine the russian tank spams not only at beginning of the war (and they had about 150 000 in the war in total ).

[womble]

Maybe there will be Prime Movers in a later product. They'll probably have a Rarity cost that means you'll only be able to use them in QBs if you turn Rarity off. They'd be available for scenario designers though.

The firing of an 88 from its wheels is one of those things that's going to fall between the stools of the architectural choices made "back at the beginning". There's no "half limbered" status, and limbered guns can't fire. Incorporating the real life restrictions on the fire (only close to the wheels' axis) is another obstacle. By Bagration, there are enough Russian tubes pointing back the other way that fiddling around with a "half-limbered" 88 is going to be a dicey proposition (you're pretty much talking only doing it when the enemy are in sight, as a desperation measure, or why wouldn't you be putting the thing down on its feet?) at best. It's a big enough moose that it's never going to remain concealed.