Macisle Posted April 9, 2014 Share Posted April 9, 2014 As ChrisND showed us in one of his twitchTV vids, defending infantry seems to be a bit smarter and tenacious in its holding of ground. I've had multiple situations now of thinking I've cleared tree lines, only to have defenders pop up and take down some of my guys. They seem to fall back and fight better, take cover and concealment better, and use reverse slopes and such better. At least that's how it feels--for both sides. After peppering with artillery and prep fire to where I wouldn't expect much left in BN, I've felt compelled in these cases to send tanks in close support to avoid heavy infantry attrition in clearing/mop-up. It feels very realistic. The defenders just don't seem to die as readily as they do in BN to date. 'Course, this is against the AI in QBs (I just can't help myself. Plus, I wanna' learn the gear before I tackle scenarios/campaigns), so I'm still racking up like 20 human to 90+AI casualites. However, I'm having to WORK to make that happen. Lovin' it! Thanks BF! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kieme(ITA) Posted April 9, 2014 Share Posted April 9, 2014 wrong post 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Childress Posted April 9, 2014 Share Posted April 9, 2014 An impression: infantry units seem to have more situational awareness on Hide. Unless the hiding troops are behind a wall the Blue Line extends farther out when in cover terrain than in previous releases. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macisle Posted April 9, 2014 Author Share Posted April 9, 2014 It seems like the AI player is better at micro-counterattacking as well. Several times, I've noticed that in situations where in BN, I'd expect the defending infantry teams' morale to be shattered, as soon as I let up the suppression and advance my units, I start seeing enemy teams moving back towards me to put fire on them. This has all been in woods/foliage areas so far. Cool stuff! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sburke Posted April 9, 2014 Share Posted April 9, 2014 BF uploaded Johnny Depp into the AI. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tank Hunter Posted April 9, 2014 Share Posted April 9, 2014 Nah, they added Chuck Norris.. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macisle Posted April 9, 2014 Author Share Posted April 9, 2014 Could just be Red Thunder fever an'aaw... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonC Posted April 9, 2014 Share Posted April 9, 2014 Well, I managed to lose 21 tank riders in a few minutes in my second outing, doing some remarkably stupid things (in a small tactics sense), so no I would not say this is my leading thought playing CMRT so far. The T-34/85, on the other hand, is a beast... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macisle Posted April 9, 2014 Author Share Posted April 9, 2014 JasonC, I'm not noticing anything different with regards to my guys attacking. --Just the AI when it's defending. Speaking of tank riders...yesterday, I thought I'd blown the crap out of the AI defenders (woods again) and yet, every time I tried to get some tank riders moved up, they would get shot up by survivors of the whack-a-mole-athon. Tank riders definitely need to be used carefully and well to be effective. Again, it could be my current enchantment with the new game giving me kaleidoscope eyes, but ChrisND did comment that he felt like the TacAI for defending teams was being a bit smarter during one of his twitch vids. Specifically, AI teams were holding fire and staying hidden until his units were in a goods spot to be ambushed. Also, they seemed to be falling back and finding new ambush positions. It feels like I'm noticing that kind of behavior. The kind of SP QBs I'm doing are a company plus some arty and a platoon of tanks vs the same (except 2-3 tanks), plus some ATGs. The maps have all been ones with a series of wood lines radiating out from the VL, providing lines of defense. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjkerner Posted April 9, 2014 Share Posted April 9, 2014 I believe Mark Ezra, QB mapmaker, said he used AI triggers in some (most?) (all?) of the maps, which would also explain better, more realistic behavior. Either way, things are just getting better! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlowMotion Posted April 9, 2014 Share Posted April 9, 2014 IMO schrecks seem to shoot differently than in CMBN. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slysniper Posted April 9, 2014 Share Posted April 9, 2014 Yes, they snap to attention and reply back in a better manor than in the older game. Also more polite around the woman 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted April 9, 2014 Share Posted April 9, 2014 I believe Mark Ezra, QB mapmaker, said he used AI triggers in some (most?) (all?) of the maps, which would also explain better, more realistic behavior. Either way, things are just getting better! I don't think those would explain the small-scale things people have been describing. They'll explain higher level "better reactions" but not things like popping up from hiding at just the right time other than the very first time in a given position. That could just be designers setting shorter cover arcs... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonC Posted April 9, 2014 Share Posted April 9, 2014 Macisle - fair enough. I find the riders are perfectly effective running around drawing fire and then eating dirt, while the T-34s annihilate everything that recklessly opened up to persecute said riders. If the defenders are going to be that lax in fire discipline, drawing fire is all a rider needs to do. The T-34s will take care of the rest. Handily. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lethaface Posted April 9, 2014 Share Posted April 9, 2014 Now that is a bit harsh of a tactic even for a soviet commander 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c2yeung Posted April 9, 2014 Share Posted April 9, 2014 As ChrisND showed us in one of his twitchTV vids, defending infantry seems to be a bit smarter and tenacious in its holding of ground. I've had multiple situations now of thinking I've cleared tree lines, only to have defenders pop up and take down some of my guys. They seem to fall back and fight better, take cover and concealment better, and use reverse slopes and such better. At least that's how it feels--for both sides. After peppering with artillery and prep fire to where I wouldn't expect much left in BN, I've felt compelled in these cases to send tanks in close support to avoid heavy infantry attrition in clearing/mop-up. It feels very realistic. The defenders just don't seem to die as readily as they do in BN to date. 'Course, this is against the AI in QBs (I just can't help myself. Plus, I wanna' learn the gear before I tackle scenarios/campaigns), so I'm still racking up like 20 human to 90+AI casualites. However, I'm having to WORK to make that happen. Lovin' it! Thanks BF! The same thing happened to me playing a campaign battle. The AI defense is tenacious, well camouflaged and cunning. My tank killed some of the defenders and the rest scattered and retreated deeper in the woods. I moved my guys forward to mop up that area (thinking AI must be shell-shocked or panic), got mowed down by their lethal SMG from unknown positions. Without actual counting, I would venture to say I probably lost 4 to 6 men to one of them fighting in the woods. Same picture with my armour, their AT guns destroyed 3 of my tanks before I could discover their location. If I continue this battle of attrition, there will be nothing left to fight with. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Childress Posted April 9, 2014 Share Posted April 9, 2014 Same picture with my armour, their AT guns destroyed 3 of my tanks before I could discover their location. AT guns appear to have become formidable. Now they can be jerked around with no redeploy penalty and the barrel traverse is quicker. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ridethe415 Posted April 10, 2014 Share Posted April 10, 2014 The AI defense is tenacious, well camouflaged and cunning. I am noticing something similar. Defensive fire teams set up forward, after taking a loss or two, will fall back about 20M, and then stay put. Thinking they have retreated, I walk into stubborn defenders. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BletchleyGeek Posted April 11, 2014 Share Posted April 11, 2014 AT guns appear to have become formidable. Now they can be jerked around with no redeploy penalty and the barrel traverse is quicker. Noticed that in Beutezug. The AT defenses there made me sweat (and bleed). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sburke Posted April 11, 2014 Share Posted April 11, 2014 Honestly I was a little skeptical of this thread as I have not heard the TAC AI had specifically been tweaked. However on 3 separate occasions now I have seen my infantry retreat from assaulting Russian SMG teams. On all 3 occasions they have left the building they were in and moved back into a building now out of LOF of the enemy. I was expecting them to just stop in the yard or somewhere outside and drop to the ground. Now you guys have me scratching my head and wondering. Could be just a fluke of the map and circumstance, but it certainly looks and feels really cool. Especially as they are leaving a trail of Russian casualties to mark their trail. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjkerner Posted April 11, 2014 Share Posted April 11, 2014 Honestly I was a little skeptical of this thread as I have not heard the TAC AI had specifically been tweaked. However on 3 separate occasions now I have seen my infantry retreat from assaulting Russian SMG teams. On all 3 occasions they have left the building they were in and moved back into a building now out of LOF of the enemy. I was expecting them to just stop in the yard or somewhere outside and drop to the ground. Now you guys have me scratching my head and wondering. Could be just a fluke of the map and circumstance, but it certainly looks and feels really cool. Especially as they are leaving a trail of Russian casualties to mark their trail. As I mentioned above, I thought it was mainly due to triggers. It might just be observation bias, but now that I've been watching things more closely, there really does seem to be more intelligent Tac AI moves by my own guys as well as the enemy's. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted April 11, 2014 Share Posted April 11, 2014 What quality of troops are we talking about here? I'm still in BN, and I've been seeing troops backing off, but still being there and willing to hand out punishment to their pursuars. Habitually I've played with Regular or lower quality troops, with a scattering of the occasional Veteran, a few High motivation and some +1 leaders sprinkled in, or even lower, in scenarios. But lately I've been using some rather better troops (Mostly Vets with about a third Crack, all with bumped leadership and morale), and I've found that they regularly seem to "invoke self preservation" and drop back from where they're getting pounded, without having gone "uncontrolled" (Shaken or Paniced), so are available to continue the defense, rather than heading for the base line. Could it just be that soft factors are set a bit higher for the pTruppen on the Ostfront? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted April 11, 2014 Share Posted April 11, 2014 Could it just be that soft factors are set a bit higher for the pTruppen on the Ostfront? Well that's true of the Guard units I've been playing with in the tutorial missions. I've been assuming that the tutorial was designed that way so as not to discourage new players. It will be interesting when I get to play with more "normal" Soviet units. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted April 11, 2014 Share Posted April 11, 2014 Improved Infantry Behaviour? I'd say defiantly YES! I just got CMRT and as I've always liked infantry battles I fired up a small meeting inf only QB. I didn't expect much, it being only a QB, but was pleasantly surprised when I had one hell of a battle! Instead of charging on regardless the enemy AI inf quickly got fire ascendency before making measured advances - I was lucky to get a draw! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankster65 Posted April 11, 2014 Share Posted April 11, 2014 Improved Infantry Behaviour? I'd say defiantly YES! I just got CMRT and as I've always liked infantry battles I fired up a small meeting inf only QB. I didn't expect much, it being only a QB, but was pleasantly surprised when I had one hell of a battle! Instead of charging on regardless the enemy AI inf quickly got fire ascendency before making measured advances - I was lucky to get a draw! I too have noticed this. My first game in CMRT was to set up an infantry vs. infantry battle in the QB generator. I as Russians and the AI as Germans. I was the attacker in this case. It was one of the best battles I've had. I swore many times there was a human on the other side challenging me for every piece of real-estate. Great fun! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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