QB soviet artillery prices

[Reanimator]

Are they supposed to be 14 points for a battery?

[AttorneyAtWar]

Oh dear, that doesn't sound right haha!

[Reanimator]

I will say it makes QB VERY fun.

[jep]

I will say it makes QB VERY fun.

Interesting, but I am little bit worried; people were allready complaining about US rockets! I like cheap artillery but what about game balance? I would like to know how Battlefront decides the price list. In general I like what I see. Much more balanced quick battles.

[Battlefront.com]

Remember that Soviet artillery is far more restrictive than you're used to. The new one mission per spotter feature removes a huge amount of flexibility, as does having fewer units that can spot.

As for the specific point value, I don't have a comment about that. Yet. We'll see how it works out

Steve

[MikeyD]

The new one mission per spotter feature

Oh yeh. That's definitely going to come as something of a surprise to some people

[Vanir Ausf B]

Oh, my. I had always assumed the US rocket artillery prices in CMBN were typos. Guess not.

The Soviet 82mm BM-8-48 battery comes with 384 rounds and costs 29 points. That means you could have nearly 4000 rockets in 10 batteries for the price of a T-34/85 tank. Add in an FO for 107 pts and 5 TRPs for 150 and you have a guaranteed victory for about the cost of a company of infantry.

This will definitely require a new entry in my QB house rules.

[purpheart23]

Guys don't forget at this point in the war the Soviets had tons (thousands of pieces) of rocket and tube artillery to bring down on the Germans. I just got done with a qb played as the germans and i believe their price for a heavy battery of howitzers was in the 1000 point range. Very very lopsided but hey, war is hell.

[Vanir Ausf B]

Guys don't forget at this point in the war the Soviets had tons (thousands of pieces) of rocket and tube artillery to bring down on the Germans.

You're talking rarity, which is a completely different value.

[purpheart23]

actually i had rarity turned off. If you look at the price for four 122mm tubes it's 1097 points. I can only assume it's the type of tube that makes it cost so much as the 150mm's are roughly 600 purchase points.

[Vanir Ausf B]

No, it's the ammunition load. The 122mm comes with 280 rounds, the 150mm only has 120 rounds.

[purpheart23]

No, it's the ammunition load. The 122mm comes with 280 rounds, the 150mm only has 120 rounds.

Well there we have it. Either way we cut it though the Germans definitely have less access to the big guns as it should be.

[Apocal]

Does it change with date? I can't quite tell...

[gunnersman]

Cheap artillery and one use per scenario sounds like the makings of some really big artillery barrages at the beginning of a scenario.

[Freyberg]

Certainly interesting. If you changed the house rule disallowing bombardment of Attacker's set-up zone - requiring the attacker to immediately move off, it might balance up any Soviet artillery advantage - if there is one.

[Michael Emrys]

Cheap artillery and one use per scenario sounds like the makings of some really big artillery barrages at the beginning of a scenario.

Which is how the Soviets played it, at least on major offensives.

Michael

[jep]

Remember that Soviet artillery is far more restrictive than you're used to. The new one mission per spotter feature removes a huge amount of flexibility, as does having fewer units that can spot.

As for the specific point value, I don't have a comment about that. Yet. We'll see how it works out

Steve

That is what a single spotter, rocket artillery (300 mm and 82 mm rockets) and infanrty company can do:

. Only broken tanks & soldiers exist after the Rocket Barrage. Lets see what human opponent can do against my mighty barrage.

Should the one mission per spotter rule also limit preplanned barrages?

[Der Alte Fritz]

The fighting Infantry Division: Collection of tactical examples of the Great Patriotic War

Military Theory

27-я гвардейская дивизия усиливалась

24-й минометной бригадой,

1200-м легким самоходно-артиллерийский полком

1154-й легкий артиллерийский полк

двумя батареями 351-го тяжелого самоходно-артиллерийского полка

372-й истребительно-противотанковый артиллерийский полк

три батареи 67-го истребительно-противотанкового

из состава корпусной артиллерийской группы -

1154-й легкий артиллерийский полк

из состава армейской артиллерийской группы —

32-й отдельный артиллерийский дивизион особой мощности,

1-й и 3-й дивизионы 43-й пушечной артиллерийской бригады

два дивизиона 184-й тяжелой гаубичной бригады большой мощности.

27th Guards Division supported by following units:

24th mortar brigade, (14 Breakthrough Artillery Division)

1200th Light self-propelled artillery regiment (SU76)

1154th Light artillery regiment

two batteries of 351th Heavy Self-Propelled Artillery Regiment (ISU 152)

372th antitank artillery regiment

three batteries of the 67th anti-tank artillery regiment

from the Corps artillery group -

1154th Light artillery regiment

from the Army Artillery Group -

32nd separate battalion of special power

1st and 3rd battalions of the 43rd cannon artillery brigade (probably 43rd Guards Gun Artillery Regt from Army)

two battalions of the 184th high power heavy howitzer Brigade. (29 Breakthrough Artillery Division)

The 27th GRD was part of 29th Guards Rifle Corps and 8th Guards Army and its assault role gave it direct fire support from 2 SAU Regts, artillery supplied from the second echelon Rifle Division and from Corps and Army Artillery Groups. It had 3 Regiments with 130 manual and 60 heavy machine guns, fifty four 82-mm and eighteen 120-mm mortars, eighteen 45-mm guns, twelve 76-mm cannon artillery regiment, thirty six 76-mm guns divisional artillery and twelve 122-mm howitzers. Companies were 80-85 men strong.

[Der Alte Fritz]

"The Commander of the 29th Guards Rifle Corps, Major General AD Shemyonoks gave the ground commander of the 27th Guards Division following a combat mission's divisions to be ready to break through the German defenses on a 500 m south Genrykuv-west of the center, Moniohi (the width of the breakthrough 1750 meters), with the immediate objective to reach the line, soft sand hills north-west of Will-Lukowski (depth of the attack 6 km). In the subsequent division was to break through the enemy's second line of defense on a 500 m west Zelenets (excl.) Vulchina and developing the offensive in the direction of the forest south-east of Bervtse Shlyahetske, Vytsisluvka, by the end of the first day of the main forces to leave the area of forest southeast Bervtse Shlyahetske and advance units to capture Zawada Nova nameless height of 500 m to the south of this point (the depth of the attack of the day 15 km).

When you consider that division advanced in the area 1,750 meters wide, centered in its lane capabilities let you create the following tactical density of 1 km front: 5 infantry battalions, 108 light and heavy machine guns, 144, 82 - and 120-mm mortars and 133 guns (76 mm and above) and 17 self-propelled artillery. Given attached and supporting tools division had a significant advantage over the enemy, allowing her, with proper organization of the offensive, successfully complete the task.

Artillery commander of the division were as follows:

1. the destruction of manpower and fire weapons at the forefront and in the short depth of the defense,

2. suppression of artillery and mortars in areas south of Lipa, Mala whole, the May Dombrowa;

3. prohibition approach of enemy reserves by Lipska Will, a May Dombrowa , m Glovachuv,

4. suppression of enemy strong points in Lipa, Klementynuv, Mala whole, the May Dombrowa

5. interdiction and counter enemy infantry and tanks on the part of these settlements.

In terms of the use of artillery developed provides two variants of the artillery barrage.*

1) According to*the first embodiment of the artillery preparation was planned for a period of 25 minutes.*This reduced the time artillery preparation was planned to provide advanced attack battalions to capture the first position of the enemy.*In the case of successful actions forward battalions, advancing them to the depth of the enemy defense was to be accompanied by an ordinary shaft until the turn of Lipa, the doors.*Lipa.*Putting into action the main forces regiment of the first echelon is to bring all the artillery fire division.

2) In the case of the failure of the attack forward battalions artillery preparation was to be held on the second version for 80 minutes (including held a 25-minute artillery preparation).*

Infantry attack in this case, it was planned to accompany the double barrage to the highway Lipsk Buda - Glovachuv m (at a depth of 2.5 km) and in the future - a serial concentration of fire over the sites of resistance.

With the approach of parts of the division in the second position of the enemy in the plan provides a 20-minute fire attack all the artillery division at that position and a volley of rocket artillery from the artillery of the body strong points Klementynuv the Mining and May.

On the first day of the battle for the divisional artillery was established the following expenditure of ammunition in combat sets (Table 11). Table 11 See Spreadsheet Vistula Oder Artillery"

[Der Alte Fritz]

Table 10 is copied directly from the article

Table 11 has been 'rotated' so that it matches table 10

I have added some calculations about the number of shells fire and the weight of shells at the bottom.

As you can see this GRD was planning to fire over 1,000 tonnes of artillery ammunition, the vast bulk of it as part of the preliminary bombardment.

[Der Alte Fritz]

As far as Rockets are concerned, 27 GRD would get 15 x M30/31 ground launchers and 24 x BM13 truck launchers (per km of 8 Guards Army assault front of 7km) and the 27 GRD attacked on a 1.7km front. They would get ONE launch of 12 rockets per launcher.

But this weight of fire was spread across the whole DEPTH of the German first position which was 3km deep. Rockets were used to target specific strong points or reinforcement points or headquarters often in the second or third lines.

Into this 1km wide x 3km deep area 5 BATTALIONS of Soviet Infantry would assault.

So a COMPANY might expect 1 x M30 launcher and 1-2 x BM13 strike somewhere along its 3km route.

[Der Alte Fritz]

The kind of German defensive lines this kind of fire was directed at would consist of an outpost line behind which would be the HKL of three continuous lines of trenches 200m apart all wired into strongpoints.

Behind this was the 1500m of the HKF which contained individual strongpoints and short stretches of trench, AT guns, Infantry Guns, etc.

At around 2500km behind the HKL forward edge was the BARBARA position or B-STELLUNG (named after the patron saint of artillerymen) a single trench with strong points behind which was a 2km deep zone of artillery gun positions, AT guns and armoured support.

2-4km behind this zone was a Second Defence belt - same as the first (only with less well developed engineering) and then behind this was a Third Defence Belt usually of the HKL only.

[Der Alte Fritz]

Soviet artillery was a precision weapon given the depth and extent of these kinds of defences and that each gun only had 2-5 combat loads to fire off during the whole of the preparation, support of the penetration and exploitation of the depths.

Soviet scout squads often identified as much as 80% of German positions before offensives and fire would be targeted on headquarters, strongpoints and heavily defended locations leaving a creeping barrage of 76mm and 82mm/120mm mortars to deal with the average infantry defence position.

[Mord]

Der Alte Fritz...check your PM, buddy.

Mord.