Rewind for real-time gameplay

[LukeFF]

Is this something that is in the works at all for Real Time? I really miss being able to rewind the gameplay to see some sort of action happen again. Even if it was limited to 15-30 seconds, I still think it'd be a feature worth having.

[Fizou]

IIRC it has been stated that this is, if not impossible, very far off. I started playing CMx2 in realtime but have moved over to wego as the action replay is just to good to miss out on.

[Placebo]

agree with you Fizou, i would do better in real-time as i could react instantly to changes but enjoy/need the replays to much to see what is going on at various points of the battlefield.

[agusto]

I actually do much better WeGo. During large engagements there is just way too much happening at the same time to pay attention to every single (important) detail. What does the trick when playing WeGo is planning ahead - ideally you dont have to react swiftly (within the next 5 seconds after something happened or so) because you arranged your forces in a way that they will do fine for some time without your input. The TacAI is is quite good, trust its abilities and let it work for you, not against you.

[Placebo]

I actually do much better WeGo. During large engagements there is just way too much happening at the same time to pay attention to every single (important) detail. What does the trick when playing WeGo is planning ahead - ideally you dont have to react swiftly (within the next 5 seconds after something happened or so) because you arranged your forces in a way that they will do fine for some time without your input. The TacAI is is quite good, trust its abilities and let it work for you, not against you.

Generally yes, but there is always that mortar barrage that starts after 2 seconds that your troops are heading straight towards, that is the only time I really wish for real-time.

[Odin]

It'd be interesting to know what proportion players prefer wego over real time. It's been sometime since I've played realtime. But if you could rewind I think I'd have to give it a go again.

[Childress]

Wrong thread. oops.

[Dadekster]

It'd be interesting to know what proportion players prefer wego over real time. It's been sometime since I've played realtime. But if you could rewind I think I'd have to give it a go again.

I play WeGo as I love the replay function and watching all the unplanned things unfold over the course of 60 seconds. If I want a game that more reflects what actual commanders had to deal with than Real Time is what you want as you can't be everywhere at once just like a real commander. I sometimes wish that the WeGo portion was longer like up to 2 minutes to take more control away from the player to be honest. As it is now it is just to easy to micro-manage a battlefield. Not that I am good or anything...I still amaze myself at some of the dumb things I do in the game on a regular basis

[sburke]

I play WeGo as I love the replay function and watching all the unplanned things unfold over the course of 60 seconds. If I want a game that more reflects what actual commanders had to deal with than Real Time is what you want as you can't be everywhere at once just like a real commander. I sometimes wish that the WeGo portion was longer like up to 2 minutes to take more control away from the player to be honest. As it is now it is just to easy to micro-manage a battlefield. Not that I am good or anything...I still amaze myself at some of the dumb things I do in the game on a regular basis

lol the ongoing debate RT versus wego - which is more realistic...

I am still on the wego side precisely for the example above from @placebo - when that mortar round drops all the RT guy has to do is pause and reissue orders. The Wego guy has to just wince and bear it. As to the dumb moves, I am gonna do those in either mode. There is no cure. What's the expression? You can't fix stupid.

[LJFHutch]

I like the idea of WEGO but I find it's easier for me [in company or so] engagements to play in RT because I have a better feel for the flow of battle. Aside from potentially suicidal AI as Placebo said I am a bit impatient at times (especially the slow parts of battles) and can't stand sitting there planning orders and then waiting for a whole minute where nothing happens.

Speaking of which, would it be possible to have slow-motion and fast forward buttons for RT? Sometimes it takes forever for something to happen.

[tdogg]

I love to have a rewind for real time, but sounds like a major programming feat. I was thinking a shorter wego turn times or even better user defined wego turn times in 5 second increments up to 2 min. increments. Might be a way to have the best of both worlds.

[Apocal]

How would this work with RT MP?

[Battlefront.com]

Unfortunately RT rewind is not going to happen any time soon, though due to the desirability to have it I'm not going to say "never". Even if Charles tells me "never" I'll keep checking as we go along.

Adjusting WeGo turn time isn't something we're interested in monkeying around with. It also doesn't do anything for RT so no relief that way either.

Steve

[Hamilcar]

The only time I tried real-time with CM was with the Afghanistan theater. It was intense and fun, and I actual did OK on some of the smaller engagements, but I went back to wego. I would consider real-time again only if there was a way to hand over some broad tactical decisions to the AI on the platoon or company level, which could then send radio signals up the chain, cluing me in on the battle and asking for direction (somewhat the way Graviteam's series does this by lighting up the map when under attack, retreating, or a commander dies, and allowing you to go straight to the point of contact). But like everybody else, I still enjoy a good "movie" by rewinding and checking out the POV around the battlefield.

[LukeFF]

Unfortunately RT rewind is not going to happen any time soon, though due to the desirability to have it I'm not going to say "never". Even if Charles tells me "never" I'll keep checking as we go along.

Thanks, Steve. It's disappointing to hear this feature won't be coming any time soon, but in the meanwhile I am very content to play the game in turn-based mode.

[bobo]

Unfortunately RT rewind is not going to happen any time soon, though due to the desirability to have it I'm not going to say "never". Even if Charles tells me "never" I'll keep checking as we go along.

Adjusting WeGo turn time isn't something we're interested in monkeying around with. It also doesn't do anything for RT so no relief that way either.

Steve

So. You are saying there's a chance?

This would be awesome on so many levels. Even a 10 second buffer would be enough.

When we get this in 2020 I am going to pay the $10 upgrade fee for it.

Bobo

[Squallion]

lol the ongoing debate RT versus wego - which is more realistic...

I am still on the wego side precisely for the example above from @placebo - when that mortar round drops all the RT guy has to do is pause and reissue orders. The Wego guy has to just wince and bear it. As to the dumb moves, I am gonna do those in either mode. There is no cure. What's the expression? You can't fix stupid.

That's exactly why it's unrealistic. If I'm the master sergeant(or whatever it is that oversees an entire squad) and I see arty coming down right where my squad is heading, I will IMMEDIATELY yell at them to fall back. There's no way I'm going to wait 58 seconds before I say something.

WE-GO is a great representation of there being no human reactivity.

[Erwin]

Look, players can play any way they want and no one is suggesting that one mode or another is removed. But, I can't resist responding to a discussion about "realism".

What is realistic about seeing something happen, immediately pausing real life, and issuing commands to every single unit on the map instantly? The most modern hi-tech military doesn't have that capability.

If you play RT and NEVER pause, then I would concede the point as by definition you are restricted in how many orders you can issue per second. If you play RT and never pause then my hat is off to you. I tried it... I can't respond fast enuff. But, I would think that that does tend to limit one to smaller scale scenarios.

But, if you PAUSE in RT that makes things way easier and imo unrealistic than WEGO where you have to live with the consequences of your dumb decisions - at least for a minute.

(Then again, I am also one the folks who miss the orders delay system of CM1 as that at least made it possible to simulate the greater incompetence of Greens and Conscripts vs Vets and Cracks.)

What is still TBD with the CM2 system is a better AI that can simulate what troops actually do when arty strikes or when the first guy in your platoon blows himself up in a minefield.

[YankeeDog]

That's exactly why it's unrealistic. If I'm the master sergeant(or whatever it is that oversees an entire squad) and I see arty coming down right where my squad is heading, I will IMMEDIATELY yell at them to fall back. There's no way I'm going to wait 58 seconds before I say something.

WE-GO is a great representation of there being no human reactivity.

Not necessarily.

You, as the player, have a god-like view of the battlefield that a WWII combat leader could only dream of. Even modern combat officers with tools like radio comms with every squad, overhead drones and Blue Force Tracker don't come close to the kind of overall situational awareness as CM player has. Yuo, the player, see that shell strike at a squad's intended destination and can make a decent evaluation of whether it's a harbinger of a coming artillery concentration in that area or not, and if you conclude it is an impending concentration, you can make a very good evaluation as to what a safe direction would be to send your units.

IRL, a squad Sgt. would a much more limited overall perspective. He's "in the fishbowl", and only really has awareness of what's going on in his immediate vicinity. For all he knows, that artillery round he sees falling on his squad's assigned destination is a spotting round that's a bit off target, and the actual concentration is going to fall where he his right now. In this case, staying still could get his whole squad killed, and charging forward could be the "correct" action.

For this reason and many others, while squad leaders are NCOs trained to exert *some* discretion and modify or countermand orders based unfolding events, in general they're expected to follow through with orders as issued precisely because they do not usually have a good perspective on the overall plan. The last thing a Company or Battalion Co needs is every single NCO in his force second guessing and modifying their orders.

So while it may be true that units in WEGO sometimes seem to charge blindly forward like automatons until the end of the one minute turn, it's also true that in RT a player can use his god-like perspective makes decisions about the moment-to-moment actions of a squad or team with FAR more situational awareness than an NCO would EVER have.

IMHO, the most "realistic" way to play CM would probably be something like to play RT, with very small scenarios (say, reinforced platoon-sized at the largest), but NEVER allow yourself to pause, and only allow yourself to use viewpoints locked to a unit at camera levels 1 & 2. Still not exactly completely "realistic" combat simulator, but playing this way does give you some appreciation of how difficult it is to maintain overall situation awareness in high-intensity combat.

It's also not a very fun way to play (at least for me).

[Buzz]

Steve, “Unfortunately RT rewind is not going to happen any time soon, though due to the desirability to have it I'm not going to say "never". Even if Charles tells me "never" I'll keep checking as we go along. Adjusting WeGo turn time isn't something we're interested in monkeying around with. It also doesn't do anything for RT so no relief that way either.”

Rewind for real-time game play with the added feature of slow-motion and fast forward buttons would be outstanding. The time buffer in seconds should be at least 10 seconds but more is better.

Would this rewind for real-time also allow the player to change unit orders as well?

RT vs WeGo

YankeeDog’s full post is spot on IMO but I will only quote this portion, “IMHO, the most "realistic" way to play CM would probably be something like to play RT, with very small scenarios (say, reinforced platoon-sized at the largest), but NEVER allow yourself to pause, and only allow yourself to use viewpoints locked to a unit at camera levels 1 & 2. Still not exactly completely "realistic" combat simulator, but playing this way does give you some appreciation of how difficult it is to maintain overall situation awareness in high-intensity combat.”

YankeeDog is correct.

RT, very small scenarios, no pauses, unit at camera levels 1 & 2 is exciting and challenging. If you have not tried playing an appropriate unit size /mix and map size, CM scenario in this RT manner, you should. It is a refreshing CM perspective. Things happen fast and furious.

I appreciate the challenge to maintain overall situational awareness in high-intensity combat. My CM titles (CMSF_BN_FI_RT) are all played vs AI in RT. When I play with zero pauses my game results are sometimes OK, sometimes disasters. I do not mind restarting a scenario to try it again. It is a challenge for me to keep up with all the action but it is fun.

When the numbers of units and map size increases the complexity can get overwhelming. At this point I defer to frequent save files. This allows me to play through as best I can and if / when I fail, I fire up a save file and give it another try from that point.

If I really, really want to “win”, I will resort to RT with unlimited pauses… aka god-like micro manage mode

YankeeDog, “… in RT a player can use his god-like perspective makes decisions about the moment-to-moment actions of a squad or team with FAR more situational awareness than an NCO would EVER have.”

I do not often do this. It is so much micro managing that it ceases to be as fluid and fun … unless I really, really want to “win” in a particular scenario…. then RT with unlimited pauses works.

I almost never play WeGo. 99% of all my CM gaming is RT vs AI

CM titles have improved greatly in many areas over the years. The WeGo 60” war movie is fun to watch, very entertaining and educational. It is cool to sit back and watch all the mini scenarios happening in a 60” WeGo battlefield. I would probably hit replay many, many times for the entertainment value alone.

There is something about the fluidity of RT, no pauses, camera levels 1 & 2 that makes the games feel more alive, more entertaining and challening to me.

Rewind for real-time with slow-motion and fast forward and the ability to rewind and change unit orders .. not going to happen any time soon but is on my CM wish list

[Frankster65]

I also play WEGO for two reasons. One the playback. So much drama to see from so many angles, I just couldn't play without it. Second, I like the fact that I must wait 1 minute to issue new orders. It kind of brings an uncontrollability to the battlefield, a chaos of war so to speak where I cannot do anything but hope I made the correct call and let the chips fall where they may.

[Childress]

RT absolutely more realistic than turned based. In the latter you get 60 seconds of action followed by an unlimited stage of planning and calculation. The most optimal setup might be multi-multiplayer real time with restricted views. But you'd likely require organizational skills, a dedicated server and a larger, World of Tanks-sized, player base.

[Buzz]

"The most optimal setup might be multi-multiplayer real time with restricted views."

Would be awesome but if RT rewind is a long way off.... multi-multiplayer real time is a very long way off.

[sburke]

RT absolutely more realistic than turned based. In the latter you get 60 seconds of action followed by an unlimited stage of planning and calculation. The most optimal setup might be multi-multiplayer real time with restricted views. But you'd likely require organizational skills, a dedicated server and a larger, World of Tanks-sized, player base.

In RT you can also pause for an unlimited time to stop and form a plan. The only true benefit of one form of play over the other again is wego leads to less chance of spilling your beer due to frantic clicking. In the interests of preventing beer waste- play wego.

[Childress]

I was thinking of pause-free RT. True, it doesn't sound like tons of fun. But if you want realism... There are no rewinds in life.

Did I really type 'most optimal'? Jeez...