Dan7 Posted February 2, 2014 Share Posted February 2, 2014 Hi, I think the engine CMSF or CMSF2 is quite suitable for a version of the Vietnam War. I know the question was asked already and it would be difficult to manage the portions of dense jungle. This is in my opinion not really a problem because there is not necessarily that of the jungle in Vietnam : - Delta du Mekong rice fields with unobstructed - Urban combats (a bit like Full Metal Jacket) - large open spaces kinds airstrip - etc ... When the units and vehicles, the system of units and existing vehicles is quite suitable. For helicopters, he may be it would be huge, but this is something else ... It's just a proposal, saving course, all of the many details of such a mod/Addon. What do you think? Sorry for my english Thks. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongLeftFlank Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 Vietnam regularly comes up on peoples' wish lists. As someone who has tried (now abandoned) an effort to adapt CMBN to the Indochina War (1945-1954), I say you are correct that most of the needed tactical and terrain features can be represented, at least in texture modded form. And the company level actions that were standard in both Vietnam Wars are quite well suited to the scale here, although infantry concealment and entrenchment protection remained badly undermodeled IMHO, at least when I last played in mid 2013... your VC 'body counts' would be ridiculous. But the designers have said repeatedly they have no interest in gaming this conflict. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erwin Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 While Vietnam sounds interesting, one of the issues is that the Vietcong/Minh and VPA generally avoided the sort of confrontation that makes a tactical game like CM fun. The only way the US defeated those forces was when the they surrounded and trapped and then it was a turkey shoot with arty and CAS. Maybe Hue would be interesting, but what else? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lurrp Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 I don't know a ton about Vietnam, but it seems like the small-scale firefights CM represents so well would be the most common. I bet Vietnam wouldn't be terribly hard to make (not that I know anything about making video games). The VC could use a mix of Eastern-bloc weapons modeled in CMSF/Afghanistan (AK-47, RPG-7, etc.) and WWII-era kit modeled in Red Thunder (PPSh, Mosin-Nagant, DP, MP-40, etc.) NVA would most likely be pretty similar to Afghan-era Russians or Syrian regular Army. Maybe use CMSF insurgents as a base for VC? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sburke Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 While Vietnam sounds interesting, one of the issues is that the Vietcong/Minh and VPA generally avoided the sort of confrontation that makes a tactical game like CM fun. The only way the US defeated those forces was when the they surrounded and trapped and then it was a turkey shoot with arty and CAS. Maybe Hue would be interesting, but what else? actually doing a lot of reading lately and there is definitely enough material. Honestly a lot of the scenarios created for CMSF aren't much different only they tend to be more urban. Most of it occurring within a scale and area that CM does best in. Hard to imagine in a war that lasted that long there wouldn't be. Whether there is enough of an audience is a financial decision on BF's part. If they were able to get production costs into a reasonable figure (changes in how things are done) that could alter things and I believe they were pleasantly surprised with CMFI. As it is they have a lot to do in the ww2 and modern stuff before I think they would give this serious consideration. I hope the answer at that point is yes. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lurrp Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 I think the biggest obstacles to be hurdled prior to CMVN would be: -Environmental Fire: As in if you set something on fire, the fire spreads realistically. -Helicopters: Being able to deploy troops during the battle via helicopter just screams Vietnam to me. Also seems necessary. Also, booby traps would be awesome. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Combatintman Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 I'm not sure where I sit on this to be honest. I would love to see VN done but am unconvinced that it could be executed well. My main area of interest is the 1st Australian Task Force in Phuoc Tuy. Over the time that the Australians fought in VN there were relatively few major actions, the stand out ones I suppose being: Long Tan In essence a rifle company bumped by a VC/NVA force fighting a desperate defence in a rubber plantation until relieved by the QRF. Binh Ba A small infantry/armour attack against VC defenders in a small village. Tet (this is relatively speaking thought - Phuoc Tuy was a sideshow in the Tet scheme of things) Tet for 1 ATF involved company sized street fights in the two main towns in the province. Battles for various firebases with Balmoral and Coral being pretty notable. The firebase battles are essentially company sized defensive actions against VC attackers. The remainder of the time was a heap of jungle bashing with fleeting contacts and casualties in the sub-fifty range. Now of course the US experience and tactics were different and there is more scope there but there is still a lot of grind here. Selective actions to prove a point I know but they are well known: The aircav action featuring Hal Moore's 1/7 Cav in the La Drang valley for instance is in essence an exercise in holding a perimeter. Hue is an urban slugfest. Khe Sanh is pretty much the same as the La Drang valley only with fortifications and more offensive support on both sides. Hamburger Hill is a knife fight up a hill. Now everybody has their preferences but I personally am not a fan of street fighting, advancing on narrow frontages and stumbling around in wooded/forested areas. The NATO module mission Will o' the Wisps for instance (a small hide and seek scenario in a wooded area) gave me no pleasure or challenge at all. I may have been lucky (and that is a rarity) but all I did was set all of the Canadians hunt orders to the other side of the map and ten minutes later I was the master of all I surveyed. I think all too often, those that clamour for CMVN are seduced by airmobile assaults, some bloody great looking jets and thrashing up and down the Mekong Delta in some pretty cool boats. However my observations regarding VN battles and possible gameplay are the reason that I remain unconvinced about CMVN. All of the above notwithstanding there is scope for some great campaigns out there but to be realistic you would need a lot of 'dud' missions involving hours of jungle bashing to find the enemy - those with limited gaming time are unlikely to invest their time in such a campaign though. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erwin Posted February 8, 2014 Share Posted February 8, 2014 With an operational/strategic aspect, (deciding where to put political and/or economic assets in addition to military) a Vietnam game would be more appealing. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sequoia Posted February 8, 2014 Share Posted February 8, 2014 I would think Viet Nam would be interesting but the list of subjects BFC have said they are doing, would do, or are more likely to do the Viet Nam include: Normandy Battlepacks Italy Battlepacks East Front '44-45 Modern Ukraine Massive upgrade of CMSF Bulge and Westfront '45 Eastfront '43 Eastfront '42 Eastfront' '41 North Africa France '40 And even WWII Pacific and Korea because of the carry over from other games. So in other words I'm afraid I wouldn't count on it ever happening. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LUCASWILLEN05 Posted February 8, 2014 Share Posted February 8, 2014 Plenty of battles along the DMZ such as Con Thien and Dong Ha. And the Easter Offensive As others have said though there is plenty of more interesting WW2 and Modern subject matter that needs to be done. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schwerpunktgrenadier Posted February 8, 2014 Share Posted February 8, 2014 Long Tan In essence a rifle company bumped by a VC/NVA force fighting a desperate defence in a rubber plantation until relieved by the QRF. Long Tan is the one that stands out for me as being suitable for CM. Hue would also work. This is an excellent documentary on Long Tan: If you haven't seen it, it's well worth your time...and you will see much of the tactical level mechanics of war that we all know and recognise from CM. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan7 Posted February 8, 2014 Author Share Posted February 8, 2014 To correct, I certainly do not see CM NAM with massive bombing etc. .. not at all! (air support and artillery limited as in CMSF, nothing more) It is true that not only must patrol missions in the "jungle" in hidden advancing, it would be boring and not very fast interresting. Anyways it was just an idea and especially there has long I expect a "good" game tactics / strategy on Vietnam, but in the meantime I am not tired at all CMSF Syria ... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sburke Posted February 8, 2014 Share Posted February 8, 2014 funny thing is most war accounts I have read, the average grunt really isn't shooting at a specific target either. The issue of how much visibility we have in CM has been brought up before and it has been commented that if we had the same visual perspective of your average grunt it would be an exceedingly boring game. Having watched a few videos of fighting in Afghanistan cited right here in the CMSF forum it seems like this is more a general problem in war. To say that the entire Vietnam war is a not very good subject for CM seems to make Vietnam totally unique from any other war ever and I seriously doubt that is the case, especially from the eyes of the grunt at the sharp end. Also Vietnam has some very varied terrain. It is far from being all triple canopy jungle. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schwerpunktgrenadier Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 Enjoyed this animation describing the Battle of Long Tan: 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Combatintman Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 I've met one of the vets from the battle - I was his driver for a day a long time ago. It wasn't until I read a book about the battle which mentioned him years later and I thought ... 'what an opportunity I missed'. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fizou Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 Enjoyed this animation describing the Battle of Long Tan That would make for a good CMx2 scenario / mini campaign. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crinius Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 Could someone recommend books on VN? I`d like to read something with a touch of Jungle Tactics or what it was like fighting in the jungle. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Combatintman Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 Original Australian War Diaries are here for free: http://www.awm.gov.au/view/collection/records/awm95/ Admittedly they are a dry read but they do have all of the detail of the operations that were conducted by 1 ATF in VN. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erwin Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 If we could do interesting scenarios based on Guy Sajer's "The Forgotten Soldier" and have Nazi SS stormtroopers in Vietnam, I think we may have something... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt Joch Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 Could someone recommend books on VN? I`d like to read something with a touch of Jungle Tactics or what it was like fighting in the jungle. The best book on Vietnam is "Dispatches" by Michael Herr. Read that first before you read anything else. I started re-reading it again for the umpteenth time. It is easily in the top 10 of my favorite books on any subject, a great work of english literature. http://www.amazon.ca/Dispatches-Michael-Herr/dp/0307270807/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1392125052&sr=1-1&keywords=dispatches+herr After that, it is really a question of what you are looking for, a good book for a general overview is Neil Sheehan's "A Bright Shining Lie: John Paul Vann and America in Vietnam" which, despite the title is actually objective and about the war. http://www.amazon.ca/Bright-Shining-Lie-America-Vietnam/dp/0679724141 Caputo's "A Rumor of War" is also good, although it did not have as much of an impact on me as the first two I listed. http://www.amazon.ca/Rumor-War-Philip-Caputo/dp/080504695X/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1392124881&sr=1-1&keywords=caputo+rumor+of+war If you are interested in the Air War, I can highly recommend " Clashes: Air combat over North Vietnam, 1965-72" by Marshal Michel. http://www.amazon.ca/Clashes-Combat-North-Vietnam-1965-1972/dp/1591145198/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1392125531&sr=1-1&keywords=clashes+michel ...and in case anyone is wondering, CM:Vietnam would be my dream game. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schwerpunktgrenadier Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 That would make for a good CMx2 scenario / mini campaign. It's perfect for CMx2. I`d like to read something with a touch of Jungle Tactics or what it was like fighting in the jungle. F. Spencer Chapman - The Jungle is Neutral. Not VN but good starting point with Chinese Communists. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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