Operation Market Garden announced!

[Oddball_E8]

Thinking about the new things that MG's bringing to the sandtable, it occurs to me that the new monster bridges hopefully mean that at least the way bridge elevation is handled will have had changes made. At the moment, troops can't go under bridges. If that's the case for those big suspension types, they'll be very effective long walls, or at least their approach ramps will be... But I'm hoping they've nailed that.

They can't?

I have driven tanks under bridges, i know that for a fact.

I have also had vehicles (mostly wheeled) drive under a bridge only to warp on top of it and get stuck.

I have never observed infantry behaviour around bridges tho...

[Markus86]

I really appreciated Battlefronts decision to offer a realtime game mode with Shock Force. To support their effort, I even bought the whole we-go combat mission games, although I don't like we-go game mode and I've never touched the games.

From there on I bought every base game and module. Some I liked more, some less. But each releases showed some progress.

This is the first time I'm not excited about a release of the combat mission games and it's the first time I won't buy it.

In my opinion a balanced mix of gameplay features / scenarios / units makes a good game or addon.

On these forums are threads with some amazing ideas and all we get this time are:

- some units which already exist partially in other modules and the new ones don't offer much gameplay wise

- some maps, which basically could be done by everone who already owns the game (except some special objects like the bridges and new buildings)

- some scenarios

For me (I understand that there are other opioions, but this is mine) this isn't worth 35$. I wouldn't pay more than 10-15$ for this content.

I really want to support you, but this time I can't. Sorry. I hope future releases do better. My saved next-combat-mission-title-money goes straight into Creative Assemblys Rome 2.

Please consider the community suggested features for future titles and I'll be happy to support you. As I stated before: offer a balanced mix and not only eye candy, then I'll happily spend my money. Each release should make the game more fun to play and offer more possibilities.

Added:

What I would have expected for 35$ example is:

- announced stuff

+ aa guns work against planes

+ improved urban combat

[agusto]

I wondered where we were going there for a moment !

I believe that those special adult toys actually DO provide as much long term entertainment as BFC games. I mean 1) you can use them over and over again (i doubt that material fatigue is a problem here) and 2) it never gets boring. There is even a multiplayer mode!

[Mr.X]

Great News! Will the MG Module only give us the September 1944 in Holland or will we be able tp play October 1944? And is this module thought to include the September/October/November battles along the German Border, like Aachen, Huertgen and Metz? Sorry, if the question is stupid but I couldn´t find information about that

By the way: During the playtesting for my GL-Campaign, there was again a problem with the old bridge-bug (armored cars of the KI were not able to be placed on bridges for example). I hope, this will change with the huge bridges in MG, otherwise it could become difficult to manage these ones for scenario-creating for example...

Regards

Frank

[Fūrinkazan]

Since CMBO, i don't see any other game that can compete with what BFC made.

When i buy modules and base game, i don't only buy a game, i consider it also as a support to developers.

I have spent 10 $ for CMBN upgrade in december and 35 $ in may for CMFI.

This means that i have spent something like 9$/month for the game, less if i consider that we are in august. I don't think it's excessive if i compare to other things like what you pay for TV, cell phone, cigarettes for those who smoke...

Each module brings improvements, vehicles, maps etc... and i consider it's a lot of work. But, i also see it as a way to encourage developers to improve the game, and i think that's what they did since the begining.

Everyone, including myself, would like to see new vehicles/troops, new features, improvements on the game engine etc.... and i can uderstand that some people may be frustrated, but there is one thing that i think is sure is that the game is getting better and better with every patch, module or upgrade. With the upgrade system, CMBN may have new features like fire and a lot of other things.

All this is a lot of work and i consider i'm not only buying a module, i support a team that made games i've been playing for years.

[PanzerMike]

Lets see here...

Honestly, i can't think of many things that would keep me entertained for as long as a new module would for the same price.

A visit to to the Airborne museum at Hartenstein in Oosterbeek is 8,50 EUR. It will keep you entertained for a few hours. So I can visit the museum four times for the price of countless hours of refighting the the battle for Arnhem with the CM module.

BFC, please take my money. Can we pre-order yet?

[Oddball_E8]

I really appreciated Battlefronts decision to offer a realtime game mode with Shock Force. To support their effort, I even bought the whole we-go combat mission games, although I don't like we-go game mode and I've never touched the games.

From there on I bought every base game and module. Some I liked more, some less. But each releases showed some progress.

This is the first time I'm not excited about a release of the combat mission games and it's the first time I won't buy it.

In my opinion a balanced mix of gameplay features / scenarios / units makes a good game or addon.

On these forums are threads with some amazing ideas and all we get this time are:

- some units which already exist partially in other modules and the new ones don't offer much gameplay wise

- some maps, which basically could be done by everone who already owns the game (except some special objects like the bridges and new buildings)

- some scenarios

For me (I understand that there are other opioions, but this is mine) this isn't worth 35$. I wouldn't pay more than 10-15$ for this content.

I really want to support you, but this time I can't. Sorry. I hope future releases do better. My saved next-combat-mission-title-money goes straight into Creative Assemblys Rome 2.

Please consider the community suggested features for future titles and I'll be happy to support you. As I stated before: offer a balanced mix and not only eye candy, then I'll happily spend my money. Each release should make the game more fun to play and offer more possibilities.

Added:

What I would have expected for 35$ example is:

- announced stuff

+ aa guns work against planes

+ improved urban combat

Well that is an interesting view.

It makes me think that you do not consider scenarios, campaigns, maps and terrain as something worth money.

The only things i see you putting value on is units that are completely new to the entire game series (no matter that you cannot use an M15 halftrack in normandy, even if you can in italy) and changes to the game engine.

As it has been pointed out repeatedly in this thread that there ARE changes to the game engine but they will not be announced as part of the module since they will be added to the base game via a patch later to be accessed by all who own any combination of the base game and modules.

So why did you buy the other modules then?

Apparantly only because of the units.

So it seems clear to me that you only value new (and i mean brand new) units.

In that case, i feel sorry for you as you will no doubt be dissapointed in alot of the modules (and games) coming out in the future since (NEWSFLASH!) the armies didnt switch out their entire vehicle line every 3 months.

They upgraded their vehicles, sure, but you don't seem to appreciate that ("- some units which already exist partially in other modules").

This means that the modules and base games coming out will have mostly either the same units as other moduels/games but with different textures and different organisation, or they wil have later and upgraded versions of the same base vehicle (fx. Panzer III M instead of Panzer III J) which also seem to matter little to you.

New terrain, new scenarios and new campaigns are of no importance to you, so I'm guessing your "support" for the game will boil down to buying one or two of the eastern front games (unless you dont like that front at all) and then maby the early western front game (invasion of france in 1940).

But other than that, I dont see you buying many base games or modules since these will undoubtedly include alot of "the same" vehicles and units.

But it was nice of you to "support" battlefront since we need more WeGo games out there to make game designers understand that real time is overrated.

EDIT: also, have fun with the completely unrealistic and historically incorrect Rome 2. Keep shelling out your cash to that company since they give you new units every time, no matter if they existed in real life or not.

[Oddball_E8]

Ok, so this is what I see as new in MG:

7 bridges.

Countless new buildings. (windmill included)

New features in the editor (ditchlocks?)

New terrain (footpaths)

14+ scenarios.

7 historically accurate, detailed and thoroughly researched maps.

2 Campaigns

22 COMPLETELY new vehicles and equipment. (11 if you are extremely conservative and only count new versions of tanks and vehicles with major changes and not the different versions of halftracks and such)

Fallschirmjäger in the normandy setting (surely you cannot count this out because they are in italy, when they played such a large part in some of the normandy battles)

Panzer Brigades (armed exclusively with Stg44's)

And other formations not seen before.

Surely that is worth just as much as the Commonwealth module or the Gustav Line module?

Anyone that says it is not either only considers brand spanking new units worth their money and considers new terrain, new scenarios, new campaigns and new versions of units completely worthless.

OR they want game engine upgrades,which is idiotic considering the outcry there was after BFC announced that they wanted us to pay for patch 2.0. For some reason people get upset if they have to pay a low sum of money for a patch that upgrades the game engine alot, but they are A-ok with paying 35$ for a module that changes the game engine slightly.

Luckily for us that is not how BFC operates, the upgrades included in the module will be included in a future patch to the base game and all its modules. So no need to pay for engine upgrades (and no need to include them in the features of a module).

[Markus86]

It makes me think that you do not consider scenarios, campaigns, maps and terrain as something worth money.

It is worth money. But a good game is more than scenarios, campaigns, maps and terrain.

And as I stated before this is my opinion. If you think the offered content is worth 35$ go for it. Pay 60$ if it means so much fun to you.

The only things i see you putting value on is units that are completely new to the entire game series ...

Allow me to quote myself here:

offer a balanced mix

I don't know why you assume, that I only care about units. I never wrote something like this. So basically your whole answer makes no sense.

As it has been pointed out repeatedly in this thread that there ARE changes to the game engine but they will not be announced as part of the module since they will be added to the base game via a patch later to be accessed by all who own any combination of the base game and modules.

I can't read any of this in the official press release "Announcing Combat Mission Battle for Normandy: "Market Garden" " from august the 16th.

So why did you buy the other modules then? Apparantly only because of the units.

Here we go again with the "he only wants new units" I won't comment on that again.

But it was nice of you to "support" battlefront since we need more WeGo games out there to make game designers understand that real time is overrated.

Yeah, market shares clearly show how unsuccessful real time games are.

also, have fun with the completely unrealistic and historically incorrect Rome 2. Keep shelling out your cash to that company since they give you new units every time, no matter if they existed in real life or not.

Thanks! I will enjoy it for sure. Now I will tell you a secret: There are other games than we-go historical realism simulation style games. You always get what you pay for.

And now enjoy this beautiful sunday and stop crying. I'm sorry if you didn't get the intention of my question for a more balanced addon strategy.

And you should seriously work on your aggressive style of writing. It reads really impolite.

Everybody himself can decide if a product is worth the money, it is offered for. And it must be allowed to state ones opinion on a public board. And it's not on you to judge it.

You are fine with the module? I can live with that. Buy it and have a great time with it.

[Waffen_PL]

The consistent dissenters Waclaw and Beelzebub are polish players.

... and BLSTK and that guy who likes cats both are from US as I remeber... hmm so it does mean something?

Second, since you mention me- about my consistent dissent. It was second time i have involved in quarrel here so it's not so consistent. And i don't feel it was me to start all that flame. In fact i have agreed that in some statement that I was WRONG but still people where quoting me and asking same question and provoking to continue that mess still you accusing me for that constant problems??

look at this now. Who is starting to have problems? Waclaw comment that list of new units that some guy quoted is not so completely new but he even said that he likes this module. Still some people here have problem with that. Few guys can't wait to see some game improvements (for what I think we are all waiting quite long time) more than new units and maps and write their expectations than some other guy came and say go away, back to your polish forum or somewhere cause we are tried of you. C'mon whats your problem with this? If you think that these complains are senseless don't reply instead of digging it more and then saying that you are tried of them...

[para]

we need more WeGo games out there to make game designers understand that real time is overrated.

.

Hey Oddball_E8

Don' drag us RT's into the argument. Markus 86 why don' you wait and see what the improvements there are to the game, before being negative? I am hoping for more too. If there are no tweaks fixes or improvements then kickoff.

[Mr.X]

I am forced to quote/repeat myself, because some guys here are fighting their own little war against each other, as it seems --- Will the MG Module only give us the September 1944 in Holland or will we be able tp play October 1944? And is this module thought to include the September/October/November battles along the German Border, like Aachen, Huertgen and Metz? Sorry, if the question is stupid but I couldn´t find information about that...

Regards

Frank

[Markus86]

Hey Oddball_E8

Don' drag us RT's into the argument. Markus 86 why don' you wait and see what the improvements to the game are before being negative? I am hoping for more too

This sounds reasonable and maybe it's even the best response in this whole discussion.

[para]

This sounds reasonable and maybe it's even the best response in this whole discussion.

If there are no improvements at all, i too will be very very disappointed. I will still buy it though because it is Market Garden and one of my favourite operations. I am sure i will succeed where Monty failed

[Oddball_E8]

... and BLSTK and that guy who likes cats both are from US as I remeber... hmm so it does mean something?

Second, since you mention me- about my consistent dissent. It was second time i have involved in quarrel here so it's not so consistent. And i don't feel it was me to start all that flame. In fact i have agreed that in some statement that I was WRONG but still people where quoting me and asking same question and provoking to continue that mess still you accusing me for that constant problems??

look at this now. Who is starting to have problems? Waclaw comment that list of new units that some guy quoted is not so completely new but he even said that he likes this module. Still some people here have problem with that. Few guys can't wait to see some game improvements (for what I think we are all waiting quite long time) more than new units and maps and write their expectations than some other guy came and say go away, back to your polish forum or somewhere cause we are tried of you. C'mon whats your problem with this? If you think that these complains are senseless don't reply instead of digging it more and then saying that you are tried of them...

iMolestCats is from New Zeeland.

Hey Oddball_E8

Don' drag us RT's into the argument. Markus 86 why don' you wait and see what the improvements to the game are before being negative? I am hoping for more too. If there are no tweaks fixes or improvements then kickoff.

I havent slept for a few days due to me moving tomorrow and my dog picking up on that stress and not letting me sleep at night.

So I'm sorry for the aggressive tone, but I still stand on my point that someone that does not think this module is worth 35$ but thinks the commonwealth and Gustav Line ones were, seems to only value new units and not scenarios and other features (or even a "good balance thereof" since apparantly 22 completely new vehicles is not enough to balance with the rest of the stuff.)

[womble]

I am forced to quote/repeat myself, because some guys here are fighting their own little war against each other, as it seems --- Will the MG Module only give us the September 1944 in Holland or will we be able tp play October 1944? And is this module thought to include the September/October/November battles along the German Border, like Aachen, Huertgen and Metz? Sorry, if the question is stupid but I couldn´t find information about that...

Regards

Frank

I can't find it now, but I'm pretty sure Steve said it's just September. Going past that date would involve adding "autumnal" things like leafless trees and such and probably even winter terrain/weather since finding a cutoff point that makes sense before the snows came would be tricky, with overlapping operations.

[para]

I havent slept for a few days due to me moving tomorrow and my dog picking up on that stress and not letting me sleep at night.

So I'm sorry for the aggressive tone, but I still stand on my point that someone that does not think this module is worth 35$ but thinks the commonwealth and Gustav Line ones were, seems to only value new units and not scenarios and other features (or even a "good balance thereof" since apparantly 22 completely new vehicles is not enough to balance with the rest of the stuff.)

I do not feel you are being aggressive, and i hear what you are saying. Now get some sleep soldier

[Oddball_E8]

I do not feel you are being aggressive, and i hear what you are saying. Now get some sleep soldier

I don't think my bosses would appreciate that since I am at work

But when i get home I will take naps when its my buddys turn on the H2H match we are playing

[Rokko]

I am forced to quote/repeat myself, because some guys here are fighting their own little war against each other, as it seems --- Will the MG Module only give us the September 1944 in Holland or will we be able tp play October 1944? And is this module thought to include the September/October/November battles along the German Border, like Aachen, Huertgen and Metz? Sorry, if the question is stupid but I couldn´t find information about that...

Regards

Frank

Nope the timeframe only gets extended to September 1944.

[para]

I don't think my bosses would appreciate that since I am at work

But when i get home I will take naps when its my buddys turn on the H2H match we are playing

lol i bet they wouldn't. I hope you are not an air traffic controller! We should have a pbem sometime.

Anyway, with a name like Oddball you should be digging how beautiful and righteous everything is.

[JoMac]

Interesting, So now CM:BN is June-Aug 44' ( three Months ), but CM:MG is only Sept 44' ( one month ), which means CM:Bulge will then have to be from Oct 44'-May 45' ( longest timeframe differences of the three modules ).

However, I thought that CM:MG might cover upto to WestWall making it Sept-Nov 44'...Maybe Not ? or is Battlefront going to add another Module in between...Making it: CM:BN, CM:MG, CM:Westwall, CM:Bulge ?

Joe

[Mr.X]

@ Womble and Rokko: Thanks for the information. So, the battle for the Reich must wait...will this perhaps be part of the Bulge-Module?

IMO, every module of CM is worth the money, it costs. I am lucky, that a company like Battlefront is able to survive with such a special product, so I am not interested, if they wanna have 10 or 30 Dollars for their developments...but I am interested in, how many CM-Licenses Battlefront could sell worldwide until today?

[Waffen_PL]

I will surprise you but as I remember Bulge will be separate game with it's own modules. I can't imagine that but ok, i will not judge something that doesn't exist ;P

[Spinoza]

''No Volksgrenadiers in the battles for the Rhine bridges so they aren't going to be present in Market Garden. Likewise, no snow (except on the Zeedijk ). However, VG units might be coming into a Pack for Normandy. Their big day of glory, along with snow, will be in the Bulge Family. That one will pick up where Normandy ends and go through to the end of the war.

Steve''

Aragorn , I lived 5 years in The Netherlands , and I knew for fact that , unlike you , majority of Dutch are very tolerant , in keeping with “live and let live” attitude.

Maybe its just a myth.

[Ithikial_AU]

Interesting, So now CM:BN is June-Aug 44' ( three Months ), but CM:MG is only Sept 44' ( one month ), which means CM:Bulge will then have to be from Oct 44'-May 45' ( longest timeframe differences of the three modules ).

However, I thought that CM:MG might cover upto to WestWall making it Sept-Nov 44'...Maybe Not ? or is Battlefront going to add another Module in between...Making it: CM:BN, CM:MG, CM:Westwall, CM:Bulge ?

Joe

I have no idea how BF is planning to tackle the Bulge & '45 Family of games, but from my reading of these forums and how BF did Italy I'm guessing it's going to be something like this...

- CM: Bulge (not a module but a new base game which I'm guessing will be US forces focused) -> Oct '44 - May 45'.

- CM: Commonwealth Forces Module

- Packs, upgrades and juicy stuff to follow.

Also it would be more accurate to say after MG is released that CMBN is June 44 - Sept 44'. Don't think geography think dates.

But who knows, I'm looking forward to whatever BF releases with the CMx2 engine. :cool: