Gustav Line QB AAR Axis

[Seedorf81]

Man, these AAR's are like goin' to the movies.

Beautiful screenshots, honest and wellwritten explanations of intentions and motives, doubts and fears, frustrations and (self)mockery.

Random luck, blatent stupidity and cunning skills are all contributing to the nailbiting tension that the average viewer endures while watching these monumental battles.

I'm in awe with the game, and as much with the creators of these AAR's.

Thank you, thank you, thank you.

[Rokko]

Have you changed time of year or something? In the first screenshots the bushes were all yellow and red.

[GreenAsJade]

Like I said, the sun came out

GaJ

[jhmorneau]

Are you really ordering your Panzer IV to go "fast" through rough montainous terrain ? I hope you've got an experienced mechanic in case you lose a track... or two

[GreenAsJade]

I guess that's the blatant stupidity that Seedorf was referring to eh? (sigh)

I guess that's what you get when you bring a flatlander commander into the mountains!

[GreenAsJade]

I just had an even worse thought. Maybe that's _not_ the stupidity that Seedorf was referring to. In which case.... OMG, what _else_ am I doing!?

Anyhow, I did suggest to the TC's that they probably don't need to rush quite as much... afterall, there's still an hour and a half to go....

Fortunately, as you can see, Christoff took only one wall's worth of track damage so far, so no harm done by the initial over-enthusiasm!

Not much else to report: 5 & 8 Co are rushing off down the first hill to their destiny:

and 6Co are moving up the valley uneventfully...

GaJ

[A Canadian Cat]

Wow check out those movement orders in the air. I know they are para troopers but they can fly?

I have never seen that. I guess I usually have reason to set way points at various points on route. Very cool effect.

[Chops]

Fortunately, as you can see, Christoff took only one wall's worth of track damage so far, so no harm done by the initial over-enthusiasm!

GaJ

Always a good idea to use the Slow Command when going over walls or other obstacles and Move Command while off-road for vehicles.

[GreenAsJade]

LOL, I've never done that. My tanks always go quick or fast (except rarely when hunting).

Out of curiosity, if I went slow over the wall, would I take no track damage? That'd make it worth slowing down On the other hand, if you _still_ take a hit of damage on the track going slow over the wall, then I'm not sure I would bother slowing down.

Looks like this AAR is going to be a major learning experience

GaJ

[Chops]

I operate my vehicles in CM as I would in real life as mentioned above, and I have had good success in minimizing track damage, bogging, etc... in game.

[umlaut]

Out of curiosity, if I went slow over the wall, would I take no track damage?

It is my understanding of the game - and my experience while playing - that using slow when moving over walls (and other such obstacles) will reduce the risk of track damage considerably.

[GreenAsJade]

Well, you guys have really hexed me now

I have played about 40 CMx2 games H2H and never lost a track, rushing tanks all over the place.

I bet the next thing that happens is I throw a track, in front of the whole of you lot!!! Doh! :eek:

GaJ

[Seedorf81]

SLOW does it for me when going over fences/bocage-gaps/walls, but maybe I'll try FAST next time..

[Sublime]

Well, you guys have really hexed me now

I have played about 40 CMx2 games H2H and never lost a track, rushing tanks all over the place.

I bet the next thing that happens is I throw a track, in front of the whole of you lot!!! Doh! :eek:

GaJ

pssh n00b

I've thrown tracks on regular grass in game before lol

[GreenAsJade]

I'll tell ya's what. I'll have Braun drive Slow over the next wall, and we'll see what happens!

GaJ

[Michael Emrys]

Well, you guys have really hexed me now

Yeah, you're done for. Might as well surrender now and save yourself the trouble.

Seriously, I have never driven any vehicle over an intact wall; never suspected it was possible, so that's one up on me. I have gone over lots of all kinds of fences using slow (because that seemed to me the way you'd do it in real life and just a good idea generally) and never sustained any track damage at all. As for driving over rugged terrain, I never go faster than Move, and if it is especially rugged, laterally sloped, or narrow, I use Slow. And always with lots of markers to make sure they stay on the best path.

Michael

[A Canadian Cat]

I'll tell ya's what. I'll have Braun drive Slow over the next wall, and we'll see what happens!

Slow is not a guarantee of not damage from driving over a wall, we just think it reduces the chance. Come to think of it I have never tested just assumed that it helped. I have to admit my AFVs move fast pretty much everywhere except if I want them to hunt or they are going over a wall or fence. Even rough terrain I just send 'em fast.

The only other thing I do, is if a series of movement orders ends with any of my men in front of the AFV and I have given the tank an area target command at the end I make sure there is a short strech of slow before the target command. I have had several instances of blue on blue casualties because the tank commander orders the gunner to fire before the driver comes to a complete halt: tank's nose dips just as the gunner pulls the trigger, round goes into the ground right next to my squad.

[Chops]

Operating vehicles off-road at Fast is gaminess of the highest order, unless the vehicle is under extreme duress.

[A Canadian Cat]

Operating vehicles off-road at Fast is gaminess of the highest order, unless the vehicle is under extreme duress.

Well in my defense I thought Fast was "go as fast as possible". Three tanks starting next to each other, one on the road, one in a field and one in a forest, given fast orders 200m forward will not travel that 200m in the same time. I see my tanks slow down when the enter rough area and then speed up again on open ground. I do not think there is any gaminess to be had here.

[General Lee Irked]

Operating vehicles off-road at Fast is gaminess of the highest order, unless the vehicle is under extreme duress.

I beg to differ. When I drive my vehicles off road it's pedal to the metal baby!

Oh you mean in-game...

GaJ you gamey bastage! Lol

[JyriErik]

I always go slow over obstacles with my vehicles. When I started plaing I went fast & my armour kept throwing tracks all the time, going slow I've been able to sometimes go over multiple walls, hedges, fences, without any damage at all to the tracks. One thing I have noticed is that the heavier the tank, the less damage it seems to take when demolishing obstacles.

Jyri

[ForwardObserver]

For some reason, I can't see the pictures, GaJ. Testing their URL, the browser says the server isn't reachable

[c3k]

Low stone walls are crossable by full-sized tracked vehicles. They'll rubble that section of the low wall. Little tanks, like the Stuart, cannot cross them.

Tanks take a step-loss in track damage. From full green to light green. That level does not change despite successive wall breachings. (The little stuff all broke and bent on the first crush, after that it doesn't matter anymore.)

Of course, that's all AIUI.

[GreenAsJade]

Operating vehicles off-road at Fast is gaminess of the highest order

Whoa, I better run, the Gaminess Police are in town!!

Usually "Gamey" is reserved for sins like The Turn Zero Oppo-Setup-Zone Artillery Strike, The Jeep Recon To Trigger Covered Arcs or even Map Edge Hugging.

I've never heard it applied to Driving Tanks Too Fast Off Road.

Well, one thing we all know is that gaminess is in the eye of the beholder.

In fact, this is so well established, that over at WeBoB theres's a whole scale of gaminess, figured out over the years: Dr Von Cool's Degree Of Gaminess.

Fascinatingly "Driving Tanks Too Fast Off Road" doesn't appear there. I wonder how a gamey tactic "the highest order" was overlooked all this time?

GaJ

[GreenAsJade]

OK, now that we've dealt with How To Get Your Tank From Here To There Safely And Ethically, and DvC's DOG, I've had a little time on the plane (I'm travelling on business this week) to reflect on The Plan (I didn't have the next turn to work on before I had to leave!).

To recap: my thinking is that the Main Thing is that the VLs in is ME are too hard to take and defend. There's just no cover, they are wide open from everywhere, especially the two on my side of the map. The other thing is that the duration is so long that there aren't going to be many men standing at the end, at least on one or other side. So I need a plan to find him and wipe him out, that's all that matters

I recall the advice of some gun who wiped me out one "Use HE for killing, use men for taking territory." The HE that I've chosen is mostly 81mm artillery.

The two PzIVHs are more about fending off his armour than anything else.

What I'm hoping to be able to do is to have Bil defending one of the areas lined up with TRPs, then hope that I can deliver enough damage with 81mm mortars to have the balance in my favour.

This can be a dicey business, because its easy to waste a bunch of mortar fire without doing much more than suppress and inconvenience. If it's going to work, I'll need soft targets cramped up under the fall.

From his side of the board, I was very attracted to the P523 ridge. It looks like an awesome place to set up a defense. The trouble with it, though, is that I can't think how I would achieve anything else on the map while defending it. So I'm more inclined to think that a great place for Bil to own would be the saddle with the ruins. He can get a big force up there, up the valley on that side of the map, and he can strike out from there in many ways.

Interestingly, the most attractive way of trying to attack that spot is from Bil's side.

So, this is what I'm thinking:

- Try to enage him with the Main Force (5&8Cos)

while he's on a TRPed location.

- Push up the right flank, aiming to break right around

behind his line. If he's setup on P523, then he'll

get shelled. If not, then in theory he's over

behind MonteP. We'll have to traverse through

his whole setup zone and around behind to fight

him there - again hopefully while he's being shelled.

- Use 6Co to scope out whether this is in fact where

he is, and if he is, then engage lightly to hopefully

keep him there till the cavalry can arrive.

I've got a bit of a problem that I can't see into the main/central valley at all. I'm going to need to send someone from 6Co to try to poke their head over the ridge and make sure there aren't bad things happening there to catch me by surprise.

And of course, the big short term problem: can I really pull it off, getting through to the back? ...

(As you can tell, I'm back on line now, waiting for the next flight at Changi airport. No turn yet: either Bil's having a great weekend, or he's already flustered by my outstanding tactics and unable to decide what to do next )

GaJ