Childress Posted March 16, 2013 Share Posted March 16, 2013 Tanks take a step-loss in track damage. From full green to light green. That level does not change despite successive wall breachings. (The little stuff all broke and bent on the first crush, after that it doesn't matter anymore.) With each successive degradation on the track bar they get slower. At least on Fast and Move. Doesn't seem to effect turning, however. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sburke Posted March 16, 2013 Share Posted March 16, 2013 Any plan I have ever come up with that relies on my opponent doing something to strengthen my hand invariably fails. And usually ends with my arty dropping on my own men. I think I must be a distant..or maybe not so distant relative of Wiley E Coyote. Beep Beep! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Childress Posted March 16, 2013 Share Posted March 16, 2013 Did an interesting test. An Elite PZIV crew and a Green crew performed area fire for several turns. They both started with 42 HE shells. At the end the Elite tank had 11 shells left, the Green 22. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broadsword56 Posted March 16, 2013 Share Posted March 16, 2013 The recon and move to contact phases are my favorite aspects of CM. But one thing I almost never see players mention in the DARs and AARs is patrols. I'm no tactical guru, but whenever I read a historical account or watch a vintage training film on YouTube, I'm frequently struck by how systematically a unit was expected to have patrols out -- contact patrols to make sure there's LOS on the neighboring friendly unit, scouting patrols ahead, fighting patrols designed to provoke an enemy reaction, etc. "Always try to engage the enemy initially with the smallest possible force," the saying goes. I wonder if patrolling is an overlooked art among CM players, especially if the scenarios they play are often very short, the maps small, or the forces already or nearly in contact? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c3k Posted March 16, 2013 Share Posted March 16, 2013 With each successive degradation on the track bar they get slower. At least on Fast and Move. Doesn't seem to effect turning, however. Yes, successive damage drops all the speed values. However, once you hit a fence/wall, the damage usually doesn't continue to accrue. (Usually.) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c3k Posted March 16, 2013 Share Posted March 16, 2013 Did an interesting test. An Elite PZIV crew and a Green crew performed area fire for several turns. They both started with 42 HE shells. At the end the Elite tank had 11 shells left, the Green 22. Yes, Elite crews have a faster reload time. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vark Posted March 16, 2013 Share Posted March 16, 2013 I thought one of the benefits of being proficient was better ammo discipline, not profligacy. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted March 16, 2013 Share Posted March 16, 2013 I thought one of the benefits of being proficient was better ammo discipline, not profligacy. I reckon that if somebody is shooting back, a little profligacy is not a bad thing. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Childress Posted March 16, 2013 Share Posted March 16, 2013 I thought one of the benefits of being proficient was better ammo discipline, not profligacy. Even if I tell 'em to? You wonder if the order had been Target Briefly. Maybe two shells versus one? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyD Posted March 16, 2013 Share Posted March 16, 2013 Dudes, forget about the battle. The important thing is PzIV H has a new camou scheme! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c3k Posted March 16, 2013 Share Posted March 16, 2013 Arrgghhh!!! How did the new paint get past this crowd! Counting shells but not LOOKING at the pretty tank?? (Okay, the dented tank, now that GaJ has driven it into a wall.) More moves! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heinrich505 Posted March 17, 2013 Share Posted March 17, 2013 GAJ, I can tell this is gonna be good already. Cudos to the two of you for putting this together. I didn't mention the paint scheme because I figured everybody already noticed it. And, only Fallshirmjagers would accept a "quick" command up that freaking mountain side. Did I imagine them yelling "Hut Hut Hut" as they blithly sprinted up 50 degree hills? I'm tired out just looking at that grade up. Looking forward to lots of action. The map looks great. Heinrich505 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenAsJade Posted March 17, 2013 Author Share Posted March 17, 2013 Contact! Interesting! The first sound contact I have is way off in the back left corner: something tank-ish. I guess I can't read too much into it yet, but it certainly borders on good news: maybe Bil is interested in that half of the map, and those attractive valleys of his. That might give me the space I'm hoping for round the back right. I can but hope, at this stage. Having typed the big explanation a bit earlier of my plan, I was forced to confront the question "why try to set up behind MonteG?". I can't find an answer, other than it looks cozy. Really, if I'm going round the back, then I should go with full strength. As a result, I've tweaked 6/8Co orders, preparing for the full force to go around. ... with just the Batallion HQ and a shrek going over to look round the back of MonteGoc 6Co are splitting up for the scouting phase of the mission: the short straws have been drawn, and the unlucky beggars who have to look over the top into that nasty valley behind MonteP have their orders. And ... Christoff managed fine, bashing through the second wall. Look, there's not even a dent. He didn't cop a second hit on the damage meter... fingers crossed the first little hit was just some grit in the tracks. GaJ 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenAsJade Posted March 17, 2013 Author Share Posted March 17, 2013 ... the wait for next turn is a little nerve wracking, by the way. If Bil has decided he likes the look of the right hand side of the map as much as I do, then he could conceivably be rushing headlong into my own headlong rush. If he was really audacious and did it with recon-armour, it'd be a big mess for me. I'm not sure how far up the slope my guys will get in the next minute, so I also tweaked back their end-points so they are short of cresting the first rise, just in case nasty things are over there... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenAsJade Posted March 17, 2013 Author Share Posted March 17, 2013 Not much to report as a result ... Bil did not come rushing madly at me through the right hand gap, so that's something Now 5Co scouts have been chosen and given their marching orders... 6Co scouts on the other side are a bit tired, but jogging on up the hill. Probably 2 more turns before they get to the top. GaJ 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenAsJade Posted March 17, 2013 Author Share Posted March 17, 2013 Next turn ... oooh - more contact: ... the 6Co scout is doing his job already. And velllly intellesting: ... it looks like Gen Bil did fancy that ridge as a place to set up camp. That sure doesn't have the look of a Sherm that's going anywhere. Oh boy, I wish I bough 105mm or bigger now: look how nicely it's sitting on the TRP Ah well, I won't waste shells trying to damage it with 81mm ... must stay disciplined and use those on soldiers, if I can find some. Meanwhile, I really hope he's spotting my scout, and starting to think that the left hand side is where I'm moving. Actually, the rest of the gang are slowly making their way up the right hand side. For those interested in How To Move Your Tank Safely (If Not Ethically): you]'ll be interested to know that Braum took the wall on "Slow" and still copped the track damage hit. I have deja-vu about this: I must have tried that in the past, and concluded that you might as well go "Quick" over walls. Interestingly, I had the impression that Christoff maybe slowed as he came to the wall the previous turn, on Quick. I'm sure someone else fascinated by these things could check that out. Meanwhile, it's just slog along carefully on the right: GaJ 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c3k Posted March 17, 2013 Share Posted March 17, 2013 As me Pappy would alwys say, "If they didn't want you to do a Gamey Edge Creep, they shouldn't've put the edge right there!" Ayup. Seriously, I see nothing prohibiting any player from using every available meter. I'm not one to hold map-edge use as "gamey". I wonder what Bil will think when, or even IF, he sees your scouts. (Don't you wonder whether your first spotting round of 81mm might just go through his Sherman's hatch?) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sublime Posted March 17, 2013 Share Posted March 17, 2013 Keep in mind that quick up hills really does tire them a lot faster than downhill. I've checked the game does model it... Also if you let your scouts just sit for a turn sometimes they spot a lot more. But adjust the arc so they're pointed more in the enemies direction. I feel your pain on the 105, that sherman's nice and juicy. Did you forget transportation or just decide not to? (Trucks/Hannomags?) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Canadian Cat Posted March 17, 2013 Share Posted March 17, 2013 (Don't you wonder whether your first spotting round of 81mm might just go through his Sherman's hatch?) It would be shooting via a TRP so there would not *be* any spotting rounds. I wonder if the hatches are modeled to that level of detail. I say go for it and find out. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisND Posted March 17, 2013 Share Posted March 17, 2013 It would be shooting via a TRP so there would not *be* any spotting rounds. I wonder if the hatches are modeled to that level of detail. Oh they definitely are. I once dropped a 60mm mortar round right down a vehicles open hatch and caused a nice big explosion. That was a treat. :cool: 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sublime Posted March 17, 2013 Share Posted March 17, 2013 Yeah it definitely can happen. small arms can even richochet in there, though I never get lucky and get kills that way. However Schultz once killed half of a buttoned up M8 Greyhound crew of mine with 3 MP40 wielding scouts blazing away at close range. The bullets just kept bouncing into that turret ring I guess. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenAsJade Posted March 18, 2013 Author Share Posted March 18, 2013 I deliberately didn't bring transport. I figured that in a 1.5 hours QB with indefensible VLs, there's no particular rush to get the whole force anywhere. The usual QB rush is driven by the need to convert even odds (meeting head on) into superior ones (being the defender with the same force strength as the attacker). The opportunity did not appear to exist for me on this map. I know that soldiers tire quicker up hill, but for the scouts in particular, there appears to be little point in them arriving at their lookout locations all fresh. They will either be sitting doing nothing watching there, or getting shot at, and hopefully skuking away. The rest of 6Co took a bit of a breather last turn, and is either "ready" or "tiring" at this moment. 5/8Co is has tired units, but once again, they need to be in the right position, then they can relax if it's not an immediate fight. And if it is an immediate fight, then I needed that initial burst of rushing to be there... that's been my thinking. The 6Co scouts will stop and do some decent spotting when they have a view into somewhere meaningful The main objectives to spot into are the valleys behind MonteP. I agree it's dubious whether they should have a covered arc, especially since (on the left) I'm not really intending to hide my presence. That arc is just really left over from setup paranoia: give all units arcs to prevent accidents. The juicy sherm seems unfortunately too much of a long-shot to waste my precious 81mm assets on, for now. GaJ 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vinnart Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 I deliberately didn't bring transport. I figured that in a 1.5 hours QB with indefensible VLs, there's no particular rush to get the whole force anywhere. GaJ To each his own, but I would have bought some transport for a map like this. I think you would find they give a logistical edge if you have to shift troops quickly + ammo.Too late now. Good luck with the flank attack GAJ! By the way going slow or fast over a wall makes no difference in minimizing chances of track damage. The reason is that no matter the speed the unit automatically goes slow when in contact with the wall, or object. I made a test map awhile back, and did some extensive testing. One can go though around 6 walls to go from no track damage to yellow, and about 12 wood/wire fences/hedges. Once it goes dark green it usually takes a number of breeches to go yellow. Wheeled vehicles do very poorly with hedges so avoid breeching them with jeeps/ armored cars. Each track damage does dimish speed, but the difference between light and dark green is not great. Yelllow cuts speed in half. I set up a race on the test map I made. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenAsJade Posted March 18, 2013 Author Share Posted March 18, 2013 Thanks for the wall info Vinart. It's interesting how different the experience a person _thinks_ they have in general playing is from the reality when you test it out eh? This comes up all the time. I can't think what I would have liked to sacrifice out of my force in order to bring wheels for the men. Too late now anyhow. And... his tank opened fire on my scouts. That's interesting: now he knows I know he know's that I'm here and I know he knows I know he's there And as if proof were needed, it proves what a disaster area that plateau is against fire from his impregnable-castle-ridge. Imagine trying to take that Sherm out any other way than going where I'm going, around the back. Unfortunately I goofed with the shape of the top of the hill - I thought my scouts were coming up just in the lee of the flat-peak of the hill, able to hide from the P523 ridge, but I "missed". Darn. Poor buggers... now they have to run for it: Still slow and steady on the right flank: No-one over there is much looking forwards to the next step: actually doing it, but ... no-one has a better plan... GaJ 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenAsJade Posted March 18, 2013 Author Share Posted March 18, 2013 To each his own, but I would have bought some transport for a map like this .... + ammo.Too late now. _This_ part of it was a blunder I think I will pay for dearly if things go at all well initially. I definitely should have at least brought ammo supplies. Of course, if I get myself wiped out in my first drive, then it will be academic! GaJ. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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