Newbie Questions

[Father Ted]

This game really is addictive! Glad I found it, thanks to the guys on the 'Rise of Flight' and IL2 forums.

You'll have seen me on those, too! Keep on asking the questions - not everything is in the manual, and some things are explained better by the guys who post here as well.

I recently played through three-quarters of a scenario which was plagued with weird LOS issues. At some point I hit the "wrong" hot-key and trees sprung up all over the place. I'd assumed that the default setting was full tree coverage and that the map was just devoid of trees.

So now "pre-flight checks" include cycling through Alt-T until I'm sure I've seen the full coverage

[Mafu]

New player here as well, thought I might as well just post my questions in this thread.

I just checked out the demo for CMBN and I like a lot of the features in this game compared to other wargames that I've played, but I'm scratching my head over some gameplay issues I've been having...

One thing that keeps bothering me is the apparent lack of an effective "Hold fire until fired upon" command for infantry. I see the "Hide" command which (from what I understand) orders your men to hold fire, but forces them to go prone as well. There are some situations were I would like to have them hold fire while in crouched or standing positions, e.g. when I want a forward observer or scout unit to look through a hedgerow to spot enemies without giving away their position. I tried ordering the "Hide" command but that keeps them in prone, unable to see over the hedge. Whenever their not in Hide mode they open fire on whatever targets they may happen to see, alerting unwanted enemy attention. Are there any workarounds for this problem? Is there another form of "Hold Fire Until Fired Upon" command that I am just not seeing?

That's the only major question I can think of for now (probably more to come). I will continue to read through the manual and continue playing through the demo to work out some other kinks.

-Thanks

[Lanzfeld]

Welcome Mafu. Use a "Covered Arc".

[WindyCityZeke]

Just some more questions and some weird things I've seen over the past three days and last two scenarios I've played.

First, the one thing that I've seen a few times now (well three to be exact) is MG and MTR teams running away instead of deploying their weapons. They haven't been shot at and are in good shape and good morale, they just run for the hills for no apparent reason. Also, 3 MTR crews ran back across a stream when I changed their waypoints so I went back to the previous save game file to see if leaving the original wp would be ok, and it was.

It has been very frustrating getting the MG's in good position since they either run away or pick a field of view that isn't good. I was using the covered arc command but I find that using the face command with the deploy command works better.

Question: If you see flashes coming out of bocage are those where the bullets are hitting or are those shots being fired back?

Been getting much better with the time scale and not rushing in. Made a great assault on a building today. Moved two squads through some trees to get right next to some bocage to fire into two buildings close. First had a two MGs deploy and bring both buildings under fire to draw some attention. With both the infantry and MG's smacking the buildings the German infantry had enough and ran out the back. Only thing is I had ran two scout teams behind the building through some bocage on a scout mission and they ended up in perfect position to wipe out the German infantry as they ran for it. KIAed about 8 guys not counting the 4 or 5 Dead ones in the building. Glorious!

[akd]

First, the one thing that I've seen a few times now (well three to be exact) is MG and MTR teams running away instead of deploying their weapons. They haven't been shot at and are in good shape and good morale, they just run for the hills for no apparent reason. Also, 3 MTR crews ran back across a stream when I changed their waypoints so I went back to the previous save game file to see if leaving the original wp would be ok, and it was.

It has been very frustrating getting the MG's in good position since they either run away or pick a field of view that isn't good.

This is a known bug. Should be fixed in next version.

[Michael Emrys]

First, the one thing that I've seen a few times now (well three to be exact) is MG and MTR teams running away instead of deploying their weapons. They haven't been shot at and are in good shape and good morale, they just run for the hills for no apparent reason.

Known and as you note a truly annoying bug. BFC is working on it and we hope a fix will be released before too long. One workaround may be this: be sure to give the deployment order at the end of a movement order. It would seem that this bug only manifests if the team has already reached its position and the deployment order is given on a following turn.

Question: If you see flashes coming out of bocage are those where the bullets are hitting or are those shots being fired back?

Almost certain to be muzzle flashes. SFAIK, non-HE does not flash when it hits something. For instance, a burst of MG fire will raise little puffs of dirt where the bullets strike the ground, but that's all.

Been getting much better with the time scale and not rushing in. Made a great assault on a building today. Moved two squads through some trees to get right next to some bocage to fire into two buildings close. First had a two MGs deploy and bring both buildings under fire to draw some attention. With both the infantry and MG's smacking the buildings the German infantry had enough and ran out the back. Only thing is I had ran two scout teams behind the building through some bocage on a scout mission and they ended up in perfect position to wipe out the German infantry as they ran for it. KIAed about 8 guys not counting the 4 or 5 Dead ones in the building. Glorious!

Sounds like you are not only getting the hang of it, but are well on the way to a truly grand addiction.

Michael

[WindyCityZeke]

Thanks for the answers guys, glad it's a....well glad it's not just me. I'll keep that work around in mind.

I should be able to get this down pretty quick, not much different then ASL, just a lot more detail and longer time scale. Tactics are mostly the same.

Oh yea, just one more thing I had in mind as I keep thinking it may not happen but it seems to always happen when I request it. If you give a 'Pop Smoke' Command will those guys always throw it out there? Only time I can remember not getting it was from a unit that was rather unstable.

[womble]

Welcome Mafu. Use a "Covered Arc".

To expand a little:

Covered Arc means "Don't shoot at anything outside this area." How strictly your troops follow the order depends on their motivation and how near to them any potential threat gets. So for observers you set a circular (hold the shift key down) covered arc of 2m so they are least likely to engage irrelevant targets. You could give them a 30m arc, but most of the time, you should have cleared their position with ordinary infantry first so they won't need that "self defense" distance.

The Hide order doesn't actually say "hold your fire", so much as prioritise staying out of sight. If the soldier is out of any potential sight of the enemy, he probably can't see the enemy so won't shoot at them. Hidden troops do spend a small proportion of their time "Spotting", but it's much less, so their situational awareness is greatly reduced. You need to be able to manually intervene to get them up and firing, if you want to use Hide to perfect an ambush. If you think the enemy will get close enough to see the Hidden troops in the next minute, best get them un-Hidden and start the music.

[John Kettler]

Mafu,

Welcome aboard!

Considering the, to me, enormous complexity of the game, following CMx1 since 2000, I'm amazed you had but one question. Clearly, you're destined for great things with such rapid grokking of the game.

WindyCityZeke,

Hang around a bit, and you'll find tracer hurtling toward, around and into your men. I have some truly scary shots of metal hornets buzzing all around GIs' heads.

womble,

Given the high priority FO teams have as targets, we need both artillery observation periscopes and a "Use periscope" command. Shan't hold my breath, but it would sure help--at least for cases in which such apparatus would've been available. Based on pics and footage I've seen, the U.S. didn't seem to be equipped this way generally, but the Germans not only had it for their artillery but also in their AFVs and fairly widely proliferated.

Regards,

John Kettler

[Mafu]

To expand a little:

Covered Arc means "Don't shoot at anything outside this area." How strictly your troops follow the order depends on their motivation and how near to them any potential threat gets. So for observers you set a circular (hold the shift key down) covered arc of 2m so they are least likely to engage irrelevant targets. You could give them a 30m arc, but most of the time, you should have cleared their position with ordinary infantry first so they won't need that "self defense" distance.

The Hide order doesn't actually say "hold your fire", so much as prioritise staying out of sight. If the soldier is out of any potential sight of the enemy, he probably can't see the enemy so won't shoot at them. Hidden troops do spend a small proportion of their time "Spotting", but it's much less, so their situational awareness is greatly reduced. You need to be able to manually intervene to get them up and firing, if you want to use Hide to perfect an ambush. If you think the enemy will get close enough to see the Hidden troops in the next minute, best get them un-Hidden and start the music.

Gotcha,

Just started messing around with the Target Arc command. Funny that I never thought to use this before and it's a HUGE mechanic of the game...

Thanks for all the responses.

Battlefront, prepare to receive $55

[Doug Williams]

The biggest hurdles for me as a new player were learning not to try to do things too quickly and getting the hang of offboard artillery (i.e. timing it correctly). I still have to remind myself to slow down, and I still flub up the artillery strikes fairly often.

[z1812]

The biggest hurdles for me as a new player were learning not to try to do things too quickly and getting the hang of offboard artillery (i.e. timing it correctly). I still have to remind myself to slow down, and I still flub up the artillery strikes fairly often.

Patience is truly required with this game. My enjoyment of CM really increased when I realized that slow but sure often wins the day.

[agusto]

Almost certain to be muzzle flashes. SFAIK, non-HE does not flash when it hits something. For instance, a burst of MG fire will raise little puffs of dirt where the bullets strike the ground, but that's all.

Michael

I am pretty sure that small arms fire in CMBN hitting trees or bocage can produce a small flash when the bullets are not deflected but stopped. However it will also produce said puffs of dirt when it hits the ground.

[WindyCityZeke]

Finished up my last scenario and Started up a large scenario today, crossroads something or other. Learning a lot of lessons over the past few days from both scenarios:

When you see an artillery round drop even if it's a long way from you guys, look and see who been sitting where their at for a while and run like hell. I had two MG teams nailing an upper story of a building for about 6 min, then a round landed way behind them, I ignored it, big mistake. Next minute 4 quick rounds hammered my MG teams and killed everyone cept a few guys from the ammo team. Good thing though I did the same to a few of their MG teams later on. Live and learn. hehe

I had a squad of infantry near a tank, but I didn't think they were that close, and when the tank got hit from a hidden AT Gun, the infantry took damage as well, wounded a few guys and changed their status. I'll have to keep my distance from those guys. Damn AT Gun must have got off 5 rounds in a minute. Had the location of the AT Gun down and tried to get the tank to shoot at it but he never got a round out. The 4th round from the AT Gun killed it.

One thing I wish we had was a view mod where you could click on a units Icon and choose to have the camera view go to ground level automatically with the right toggle on. Would save a whole bunch of time. Maybe there's a way to do that already, I just haven't figured it out. Could work for other views as well.

Also wish the game would have reminders on in the upper right or left corners that woods, smoke, or other things have been turned off.

Having a blast.

[Doug Williams]

You will learn to love and hate on board mortars. :-)

[Pete Wenman]

One thing I wish we had was a view mod where you could click on a units Icon and choose to have the camera view go to ground level automatically with the right toggle on. Would save a whole bunch of time. Maybe there's a way to do that already, I just haven't figured it out. Could work for other views as well

Not sure if you are aware, but click on the icon, hit 1 and then the tab key and that will do what I think you are asking for.

If it's the Crossroads at Monthardrou you are playing I hope you enjoy it. The ATG is only the start !

P

[sfhand]

...

One thing I wish we had was a view mod where you could click on a units Icon and choose to have the camera view go to ground level automatically with the right toggle on. Would save a whole bunch of time. Maybe there's a way to do that already, I just haven't figured it out. Could work for other views as well.

...

Having a blast.

The way I do this is the <tab> key (which is a 'unit lock' toggle). <left-click> on an icon, <tab>, using scroll wheel on mouse <scroll> to ground level, <right-click and hold> to adjust angle of view with mouse. Not the same as a one click solution, but I don't want every click on an icon to take away the overall view of the battlefield.

[WindyCityZeke]

Ah yes, that view system works just fine, saves a lot of time!!

What I'm going to work on today is a VAC file for this game, I use VAC all the time in Flight Sims and it is a great little program. If you don't know what VAC (Voice Activated Commands) is I would highly recommend it. Once I have the file done I'll share it with the rest of you if you're interested. First I'm going to check to see if anyone else has one finished.

Also, it would be great to have a way to review the entire battle. I think it's possible if you can link a series of save game files without having to load the map all the time. If once in the game you can load a save game file for that map that is loaded it would save a lot of time. Just thinking out loud.

[SlowMotion]

It would be cool if one could view the whole battle also so that ALL units of both sides would be visible. Maybe the unspotted would be shown half transparent or something, but it would be very interesting to see what was happening during the first turns when units had not been spotted yet.

[mjkerner]

Ah yes, that view system works just fine, saves a lot of time!!

What I'm going to work on today is a VAC file for this game, I use VAC all the time in Flight Sims and it is a great little program. If you don't know what VAC (Voice Activated Commands) is I would highly recommend it. Once I have the file done I'll share it with the rest of you if you're interested. First I'm going to check to see if anyone else has one finished.

Also, it would be great to have a way to review the entire battle. I think it's possible if you can link a series of save game files without having to load the map all the time. If once in the game you can load a save game file for that map that is loaded it would save a lot of time. Just thinking out loud.

That would be great WindyCityZeke! I used VAC for the 9 years I played IL2 (modded to the max) practically nonstop. Only quit that to play CMBN/CW/CMFI. A great utility.

Say, did you know they nick-named a large city in the Midwest after you?

[Quintus Sertorius]

Good thread, guys. I've picked up some nice tips from reading it.

Some of the most useful things I've learned that haven't been mentioned yet are splitting teams and acquiring ammo from vehicles. Both invaluable.

Splitting teams makes a tremendous difference in buildings, since 10 guys have trouble firing through 3 windows at the same time. The 6-7 who can't see are just extra targets for the enemy.

Now my question: I've been trying to figure out the best way to configure ambushes. Hiding until targets get really close works to a point, but perhaps cover arcs could enhance this? Will a cover arc override a hide command?

[WindyCityZeke]

Been seeing some weird Lines of Sight and long range shots while playing Crossroads at Monthardrou. Even after losing a tank I replay it over and over, then get down in the weeds and try and see for myself how that unit had a LOS to the target. I'm not seeing it. Had an AT Gun shoot through smoke, trees, between two houses at a moving target and BOOM! he nailed the tank. Only leaves me saying YGBSM! Heck I laid the smoke out there for just that reason.

Doesn't matter for this one though, my guys are firmly entrenched in the village and the upper objective. Even sent a platoon to deal with that nasty AT Gun, he is now Dead. Just received my last group of reinforcements. Have no idea what they are going to do, but I have a plan to take out a tricky German tank, should be fun.

Question: Can you capture enemy weapons or regain your own weapons from other units?

[Macisle]

...Damn AT Gun must have got off 5 rounds in a minute. Had the location of the AT Gun down and tried to get the tank to shoot at it but he never got a round out. The 4th round from the AT Gun killed it.

Experiencing realistic numbers of shots from guns in CM is one of those things that makes it hard to go back to ASL for me. While vehicles can cover a realistic amount of ground in ASL, the abstracted nature of ordnance (game assumes an unknown number of shots adding up to either hitting or not) means that most guns are only going to get one literal "shot" per theoretical minute.

After experiencing non-abstracted movement and fire in CM, it seems like ASL is distorted in its relationship between movement and gun output. For example, Take a Tiger and put it 20 hexes out and run a platoon of Shermans at it. The Tiger will likely only take out two or three (and perhaps none with bad rolls!) before being flanked by the Shermans.

Now, take a Tiger in CM and put it 800 meters out and run the same number of Shermans at it. How many shots does the Tiger get? How many Shermans does it kill?

This, FOW and artillery (WAY weak in ASL) are some of the biggest advantages CM has over ASL IMO.

[Macisle]

Question: Can you capture enemy weapons or regain your own weapons from other units?

No. No captured weapon use by either side.

You can regain some weapons and ammo (mainly LMGs and AT assets, but sometimes SMGs) from your own fallen soldiers through buddy aid, though.

[agusto]

You can regain some weapons and ammo (mainly LMGs and AT assets, but sometimes SMGs) from your own fallen soldiers through buddy aid, though.

Wich is something you should definately do. If a german squad, for example, looses one of his mg42s, his firepower is effectivley cut at least by 1/3 if it has some SMGs or StGs, otherwise it would be cut in half.

However loosing your automatic weapons is most of a problem for the brits, as their standard squads only have 2 as i recall (1 bren & 1 sten) and losing these 2 weapons would pretty much cripple your squads combat effectiveness as they would not be able to neither lay down surpressive fire nor to engage the enemy at close range effectively. Talking about AT weapons, it is out of question IMHO that these should be regained if possible.