weapon2010 Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 When the scout team breaks from the squad, should'nt they take the binoculars with them?maybe it could be an option in the future? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vinnart Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 They are usually pvt's, and die quick. The sqd. leader then would not have them, and they would have to be retrieved when the scout team goes down. Same reason you do not put a bazooka on point. Scouts are expendable bait one trades for recon info for the most part. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weapon2010 Posted July 6, 2012 Author Share Posted July 6, 2012 ok, point is different than scouting, its called a scout team. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vinnart Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 Yes, I agree point is technically different in reality, as the point man usually is not split off like the scout team is in the game. As far as the game goes I refer to the scout element as the point because they are my lead element usually functioning like the point man IE: The first guy to die so the rest are alerted. Don’t get me wrong sometimes (if they don’t get killed) the scout team actually scout recons. The best way I have found to do this is to give a slow order toward the last waypoint with a short (like 10m) cover arc. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongLeftFlank Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 I believe modern squad tactical doctrine -- at least in asymetrical environments where ambush from concealment terrain is the main threat -- says to put multiple guys in your scout element; it's more pairs of eyes looking around, plus ambushers will hold fire hoping to catch the main element in the killsack. In that case, the scouts are well positioned to counterattack, being already well into the enemy position. SEAL teams even put one of their SAWs up in the point element for this reason. The preferred outcome, of course, is to spot the ambush before anybody has entered the killsack... I don't know if these tactics were pioneered in WWII (e.g. jungle fighting or partisan warfare) or even earlier (Phillipine insurrection?), but it wouldn't surprise me. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YankeeDog Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 Yeah; "Scout" team in CMBN is really just a point element. An actual scouting patrol expected to have some degree of initiative would be larger, usually at least a 1/2 squad, and with at least a NCO in command. U.S. WWII doctrine was 2 or 3 man scout team element on point. If you read first-person accounts, you occasionally hear of a solo soldier being sent a little ahead of the rest of the squad to check something out, but AFAIK this was not the "by the book" way to do things. More or less, there was a buddy system so that if one guy got shot, there was at least one other guy nearby who to run back and tell what happened. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hister Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 Are there any statistics how many point men got hit on the allied side during ww2? It must have been terrible you were the one chosen for the task!? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YankeeDog Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 Are there any statistics how many point men got hit on the allied side during ww2? It must have been terrible you were the one chosen for the task!? I think that would be virtually impossible to find records for; point duty was generally a job that rotated within the squad and I've never seen an official casualty record that even attempted to keep track of this. Best you could do would be to read lots of small-unit AARs to get a sense of what the risk was like. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broadsword56 Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 Although you'd think point duty would be a crap job assigned to the low man on the totem pole, from what I've read about US units in Vietnam, only the experienced and battle tested grunts were trusted to walk point -- it was simply too important a job and the whole squad's life depended on it, so FNGs were kept well out of the way and isolated until they proved themselves. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stele Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 I always feel sorry for my scout teams. Usually someone ends up dead on that team. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
black_prince Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 While it is a risky task and I do lose members of the scout team on occassion I never feel as though I'm sending my scouts on a suicide mission. I think as long as you are moving them from cover to cover and using the correct combination of commands then your scout team has a decent chance of survival. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chas_in_mlb Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 Wasn't there a saying "A good scout is a dead scout"? My scouts often die but just as often they rack up kills. More than once I have sent them up, they take fire and give them the hide order. If I have enough volume of fire, the bad guys will often pull back, then the scouts rush the position and more than once I have caught bad guys taking a breather. One scout team I had took out an MG 42 team and a platoon leader. Needless to say those guys didn't have to scout any more that day. Some other squad went on point after that. I make them move fast over open terrain for short rushes- less than 40m, and alternate the rushes with the hide command. I make them hug the hedgerows wherever possible. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 I make them move fast over open terrain for short rushes- less than 40m, and alternate the rushes with the hide command. I make them hug the hedgerows wherever possible. If you have your troops hide, they'll make suboptimal scouts, since they'll either have their faces in the dirt (Hiding) or will be concentrating on not tripping over vegetation, fences and imaginary, unseen, dead turtles (move order: Fast). If you want to make sure (as far as is possible with independent-minded TacAI) that they don't engage targets of "opportunity" a short cover arc will keep their heads up and their guns down. Hiding in combat will help save their lives, as they'll be presenting the lowest possible profile to the incoming, and not kneeling up so often to peek. They'll be relying on "Old Colonel Borgy" (that's your good self, the player) to tell them when it's safe to come out. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
black_prince Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 What I often do is move a scout team fast over a short distance to the next hedgerow and set them to hide at their destination waypoint. If I didn't spot anything that I think would be an immediate threat to my scouts in their current location on the way in I will dispense with the hide order and give them a cover arc on the next turn. The disadvantage being that you have to wait another turn before you get a decent look at what's up ahead. I started doing this after an incident in which my scout team was fired upon by an enemy hq unit which was just outside the area covered by my arc making for a very uncomfortable turn during which one of them became a casualty. Had they been on hide they would have returned fire once fired upon. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broadsword56 Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 @Black Prince: Sound tactics there, but I'dd add that one should put the team on HUNT or SLOW for the last AS before they reach the hedgerw or terrain feature. Also, no one mentioned covering the point team. No reason one can't have the other teams set with LOS/LOF to where the point team is headed, so at least if he gets ambushed the other teams can return fire and give him a chance to retreat. There were lots of great tactics articles written for CM x 1 about the art of tactical movement, etc., which I think can still be found online (I really miss that and don't know why this forum tends more toward technical whining/complaining than actual discussion of gameplay or tactics, but this thread is a good one and a step in the right direction...) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 ...don't know why this forum tends more toward technical whining/complaining than actual discussion of gameplay or tactics... We need a tactics subforum! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artofwar Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 Hey take a look at that - Did you hear something ? Your imagining things again keep moving 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
black_prince Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 @Black Prince: Sound tactics there, but I'dd add that one should put the team on HUNT or SLOW for the last AS before they reach the hedgerw or terrain feature. I'll try that in future. I usually use slow when I'm sending a scout or sniper team over the crest of a hill in the hope that they won't be skylined. I agree that the forums at the moment (or at least up until recently) seem to have been utilised more for miscelaneous gripes than discussions of gameplay. While I do understand that constructive criticism can assist in improvements it is nice to be able to discuss tactics. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chas_in_mlb Posted July 8, 2012 Share Posted July 8, 2012 Hey take a look at that - Did you hear something ? Your imagining things again keep moving Best laugh I had so far this morning. Thanks for that. What I often do is move a scout team fast over a short distance to the next hedgerow and set them to hide at their destination waypoint. If I didn't spot anything that I think would be an immediate threat to my scouts in their current location on the way in I will dispense with the hide order and give them a cover arc on the next turn. The disadvantage being that you have to wait another turn before you get a decent look at what's up ahead. I started doing this after an incident in which my scout team was fired upon by an enemy hq unit which was just outside the area covered by my arc making for a very uncomfortable turn during which one of them became a casualty. Had they been on hide they would have returned fire once fired upon. I pretty much also do what you describe here- without the cover arc. I will try that. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artofwar Posted July 8, 2012 Share Posted July 8, 2012 Thanks I tried to get the scouts AND the Enemy on same screen but couldn't do it would have had to create a battle and then hope ... but yeah you got it lol Here is one where I complain about the weather and it we can turn it off http://www.battlefront.com/community/showthread.php?t=105107 Then I had this surender issue http://www.battlefront.com/community/showthread.php?t=105095 and then found out its possible to rescue a buddy and reactivate them http://www.battlefront.com/community/showthread.php?t=105097 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoolaman Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 Hey take a look at that - Did you hear something ? lol, nice one. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Childress Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 I'll try that in future. I usually use slow when I'm sending a scout or sniper team over the crest of a hill in the hope that they won't be skylined. A sniper? Try this guy. A cool uniform and he looks like that tennis player dude: 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyD Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 If you were REALLY to follow FOW rules a dead forward scout team would tell you nothing. They would have just wandered away and not come back. Unless you were close enough to hear the gunfire and the cries for 'mother' from the dying men. So just for realism sake you souldn't be walking your scout team to the far corner of the map to see what's over there. Like someone mentioned earlier I most often use them as point. If they survive a 40m dash across open ground to cover I'll immediately follow after them with the rest of the squad. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broadsword56 Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 And then of course, a really evil opponent would deliberately hold fire, let the scout team reach that cover, and then open up on the full squad as it follows after him... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjkerner Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 And then of course, a really evil opponent would deliberately hold fire, let the scout team reach that cover, and then open up on the full squad as it follows after him... That's been known to happen. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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