Ammo Resupply

[sigop22]

I was wondering if BFC could possibly rethink the way they do resupply for soldiers in the game. Presently to resupply a whole section you have to place them in the vehicle and use the acquire command. This, in my opinion, is really cumbersome and slows down the game, and makes resupply during an action a terrible hassle. With limited spots in a vehicle and little time to push on an objective, resupply is almost not worth the effort.

What if you could get trucks or even vehicles to drop boxes on the ground? In my experience someone throws you a bandolier or a box of ammo and you start loading your mags on the ground. The trucks drops it off, and moves on.

This way you could do a rolling resupply. Have the box dropped in the direction of your advance, and as squads pass by they can acquire ammo and gear on the move instead of having to pull them individually in and out of trucks. I don't play WEGO, so the time wasted in RT is not that terrible. But I imagine in WEGO that's almost four turns just to resupply a couple squads out of the same truck.

[JonS]

just send a scout team back to grab some ammo, not the whole section

[Ranger33]

just send a scout team back to grab some ammo, not the whole section

Its still a pain to have to have load them in the vehicle to get ammo, especially if you are trying resupply several squads. Just put a timer on it like pausing or deploying.

Making it where you could click a resupply command, then click the vehicle/squad you want to get ammo from would be a revolution. It would also let you put stuff back into the vehicle when you misclick.

[Sailor Malan2]

You think 2 minutes to pick up ammo from storage and be ready to use it is excessive? I think it is too fast. How many men can you get round an ammo box? how long does it take to remove rounds from the box, and put them in pouches? And this is assuming that the rounds are already clipped up, or in Mags. Or that you troops can do that on the run. I think the current system is a reasonable abstraction for combat resupply. You could do it faster when not in action, but by definition CM is 'in action'. Most vehicles you are resupplying off will only have a driver. Who is meant to unload the ammo?

Not a fan of Rambo activity,,,

[JonS]

You think 2 minutes to pick up ammo from storage and be ready to use it is excessive? I think it is too fast. How many men can you get round an ammo box? how long does it take to remove rounds from the box, and put them in pouches? And this is assuming that the rounds are already clipped up, or in Mags. Or that you troops can do that on the run. I think the current system is a reasonable abstraction for combat resupply. You could do it faster when not in action, but by definition CM is 'in action'. Most vehicles you are resupplying off will only have a driver. Who is meant to unload the ammo?

Not a fan of Rambo activity,,,

Where's that "Like" button?

[MikeyD]

BFC has (in my opinion) a mortal fear of anything that might be interpeted as 'health crystals', to use an old FPS term. If something in the game is cumbersome and takes time it could very well have been designed to be cumbersome and take time. Like green officers trying to call in a rocket artillery strike. Incidentally, some posters are calling for the game to be more cumbersome - to bring back CMx1-style command delays. That's unlikely to happen.

Oh, and depending on the circumstances resupply could be instantanious. Park your mech infantry HT close to its squad and as they run low on ammo they'll automatically start 'borrowing' out of the vehicle and keep firing. But if the vehicle drives away there goes their spare ammo.

[sigop22]

How is that Rambo activity? I'm not saying they're throwing belts of MG around their shoulders and running off. But why should they get in the vehicle? Why can't the driver move his butt and throw the ammo off himself? Drivers are capable of doing other things than driving, and I doubt getting out of their truck to drop the tail gate is a task too far beyond their abilities. Just a simple 'drop' command and then get the truck out of my way.

If the guys are mech infantry and jumping out of their HT's, then why didn't they prepare their ammo before getting into battle so it's more excessible? This is done today, and I imagine back then as well.

By that definition that it wouldn't be prepared, than it's even just as gamey or Rambo that they have to get into the truck and then grab the ammo. If the ammo isn't prepared, then they should sit there for at least ten minutes, or ten turns to slowly and intricately load every bullet into the clips or MG belts.

I'd think it'd rather be much smoother to have a RS point where the ammo and stores is dropped, so the truck can get out of the way of my other stuff and my guys can just go back and get what they need and run off. This game sometimes has the annoying ability to gather up a lot of rear ech clutter after several rounds (trucks and HT's that aren't being used). If I could make an area to drop the ammo off and move them off to a less obtrusive place that would smooth it up a bit. That way I'm not wasting time running trucks back and forth (obtrusive if there's limited routes) to my squads or sending guys running off to get to the truck (dangerous to the troops).

[Erwin]

If you don't want Rambo activity, why have Real Time mode at all? RT makes getting ammo a matter of a couple seconds. And if that is ok, why is it not ok for WEGO players?

[sburke]

If you don't want Rambo activity, why have Real Time mode at all? RT makes getting ammo a matter of a couple seconds. And if that is ok, why is it not ok for WEGO players?

Good point but as someone who does play WEGO exclusively, this would be way way down on the priority list for me. What I would like is some ability to pick a jeep for example and designate whatever ammo I want to have in it. Be nice to have the capability to do an ammo resupply of mortar or AT rounds for example in a long scenario. There are likely some ways to do this to some extent using existing tools, but the ones I have seen so far are a little convoluted.

[John1966]

Incidentally, some posters are calling for the game to be more cumbersome - to bring back CMx1-style command delays.

I liked the CMx1 command delays.

(To a point. Obviously. Giving a T34 several waypoints to follow a road that produced a 73 minute delay was not the biggest selling point of command delays. But I like CMx1-style command delays in theory, at least)

[Macisle]

Running short on ammo and having to send teams to get more can create very juicy little mini-dramas within a battle. Some of my favorite battles have involved low-ammo situations. The one that stands out the most was in Hornets Nest--sweating attrition and low ammo reserves across my line while trying to hold until the reinforcements arrived.

[SlowMotion]

For these low-ammo situations it would be very useful if units could share ammo with a UI command, not only once the other unit runs out of ammo. Then it's often too late.

[noxnoctum]

You think 2 minutes to pick up ammo from storage and be ready to use it is excessive? I think it is too fast. How many men can you get round an ammo box? how long does it take to remove rounds from the box, and put them in pouches? And this is assuming that the rounds are already clipped up, or in Mags. Or that you troops can do that on the run. I think the current system is a reasonable abstraction for combat resupply. You could do it faster when not in action, but by definition CM is 'in action'. Most vehicles you are resupplying off will only have a driver. Who is meant to unload the ammo?

Not a fan of Rambo activity,,,

+1 to this. Definitely agree.

It works in wego well I think, even if it's an unintended abstraction. RT I never play so no comment on that.

[renaldo1]

My twopenneth on this issue:

I play only WEGO and I am completely happy with the current re-supply method from point of view of general principle and the time it takes. In fact I even positively like it and would like to play some scenarios where needing to re-supply becomes an important factor and becomes a challenge in itself (location of supply trucks, enemy overwatch of route to get to them etc.).

I would, however, suggest 2 changes that would seem to be reasonable from a “reality” point of view (of course coding time might be a problem):

1) I sent a scout team from a squad to a truck to collect mortar ammo and take it to the mortar team. There was no mortar ammo bearer team in this scenario to use. I didn’t want to send the mortar team themselves since they were busy firing. I didn’t want to drive the truck near the mortar team because it was too easy a target. I think my choice was reasonable for real world? Of course, what I discovered was that even in the same action spot as the mortar team they couldn’t share the ammo. So I lost all the rounds collected since I couldn’t even put them back in the truck. Surely it should be possible to collect ammo in this way for “other” teams?

2) When a truck is on fire I can understand that no-one will collect ammo from it. Of course, sometimes a truck carrying ammo even explodes and all ammo is destroyed. But for a truck only knocked out by small arms fire why shouldn’t I be able to enter it and collect ammo from it? Maybe a small amount of ammo might be damaged by whatever damaged the truck. But realistically a knocked out truck will have most of its ammo cargo intact in the back and just as easy to acquire as an “active” truck.

[Vinnart]

I think that resupply could be streamlined to improve game play. My thoughts are that the order should be available if right next to a vehicle. Much how the radios in vehicles are working in abstraction visually. An automatic pause for the action could take place.

I see a move like this: Infantry quick next to a truck with ammo, waypoint, then quick there. When the waypoint next to the truck is selected the AQUIRE command is available, and the player selects what he wants. When the infantry gets to the waypoint where the AQUIRE command was issued there is an automatic delay for the action. In this way Acquire can be added to a waypoint command chain. This would be SO much better rather than to have to reselect that unit to move it out of the vehicle.

I would also like to see the order expanded to be available to acquire during medic aid to give the player more control over what weapons and ammo they want to pick up. I have brought troops over to give aid wanting to pick up the weapon and they did not. If it is close in fighting I want to pick up a Tommy gun, or I want a crew to pick up a rifle. If no ammo sling it on the back and run it back to get the ammo. In this case the ACQUIRE command would be available next to a casualty.

As far as ammo boxes I wouldn’t mind that either with the acquire command being available if next to the box. In this way purchasing extra types of ammo could be added as an option for QB games. I’d buy an extra box of mortar ammo if the price is right. Then the mortar ammo team would actually have some ammo to go get. The problem is that there is no way for a truck to drop the box unless a new command created.

Lastly, I would prefer to have more control over acquiring ammo from other units. Example 1st platoon mortar destroyed yet the ammo carriers are good to go. 2nd platoon, or whomever mortar is out. Don’t tell me in reality that that ammo bearer would not share the ammo with others outside the platoon especially if the regimental commander (the player) orders it.

[JonS]

That doesn't sound much like 'streamlining'. It sounds more like creating a whole new game - Combat Resupply : Battle of the Q-Store

[Vanir Ausf B]

... professionals talk logistics

[JonS]

you must be wizard fun at the pub ...

[Vinnart]

That doesn't sound much like 'streamlining'. It sounds more like creating a whole new game - Combat Resupply : Battle of the Q-Store

Good one Jons, but when you think of it we already purchase. What is the difference if you buy a mortar that comes with 40 rounds, or a box of 40 round ammo that cost the same points. Actually that wouldn't be a good buy since it doesn't come with the men. It would have to be a bit cheaper. In thinking about moving boxes in trucks I think a better way to handle such a thing if ever implented, and mind you there are many other things that I think I would prefer to see. I could see them treated as objects to be placed such as mines, foxholes ect... in that they must be placed in the stup area and can't be moved. Ideally it would be in the rear in a safe place as in reality. Think of John Bassilone from "The Pacific" running back to a supply area for more ammo.

The more orders available that can be attached to waypoint chains the more efficient the player can command the units.

[JonS]

The more orders available that can be attached to waypoint chains the more efficient the player can command the units.

I don't see that as an unmitigated good.

[JonS]

Good one Jons, but when you think of it we already purchase. What is the difference if you buy a mortar that comes with 40 rounds, or a box of 40 round ammo that cost the same points.

The difference is that one of those things already exisists, while the other doesn't. Coming up with great ideas to improve what's already a great game is trivial. Implementing those ideas isn't.

That's what I was talking about in terms of creating a whole new game.