Combat Mission Battle for Berlin or perhaps Stalingrad?

[InsanePerson42]

I am absolutely loving Battle for Normandy, and I am eagerly anticipating the Commonwealth forces expansion. And whether they continue to expand Battle for Normandy or decide to move on to another theatre or another war I have to say I am really craving some eastern front action on the Combat Mission x2 engine. I want to command soviet soldiers in high intensity urban warfare on the CMx2 engine.

The Battle of Berlin would be a good choice for a setting because you could depict interested formations such as the Volkssturm(and lets face it, who doesn't want to storm the Riechstag?). Stalingrad might work better though as the strength of the opposing sides is better balanced and victory is far from certain(by the time of Berlin the german army was broken and there was no hope of repelling the soviets) also it being a bigger battle there would be a wider range of missions to choose from.

I appreciate that Battlefront is a bit busy for this at the moment, but can't they licence the CM engine out to 1C-SoftClub and Snowball Studios like they did for CM Afghanistan?

[kipanderson]

Hi,

You can rest easy... there is an Eastern Front title coming. And more later.

Battlefront have been dealing with various bottlenecks in the CM production cycle. The most obvious one being taking on a second, fulltime programmer over the last year or so.

As players of CM we have not yet seen the fruits of this expansion but it is not myth. At some point the time gap between CM releases of new titles and modules will drop dramatically.

But can't they licence the CM engine out to 1C-SoftClub and Snowball Studios like they did for CM Afghanistan?

I hope they do not do this... . Let me add that CM Afghanistan is a great little title, stunningly atmospheric. But I trust no one other than Battlefront to directly produce any Eastern Front title. After a wait of twelve years there is no room for mistakes and omissions. This one matters .

There is lots of CM stuff to look forward to,

We are lucky to have CM....

All the best,

Kip.

[Denis1973]

I hope they do not do this... .

+1000 on it. As Russian player, I hope than this never happens. Because we already has the bad results with completely no support to Afghanistan-82 for russian market, no support for CMSF&modules for russian market :mad:. Thats enough for me. I'm trust only to Battlefront itself.

[herr_oberst]

And whether they continue to expand Battle for Normandy or decide to move on to another theatre or another war I have to say I am really craving some eastern front action on the Combat Mission x2 engine. I want to command soviet soldiers in high intensity urban warfare on the CMx2 engine.

Ooh, but first I want to play some 1943 action around the Mius river bend in Summer of 1943 with the II SS and III Panzerkorps.

I've been thinking of a campaign based on Nipe's book, and scans of captured maps from the Gerasimowa, Stepanowka, Marinowka area (L-37-6-A,B,C and D, 1:50000, Truppenausgabe from the Library of Congress Maps room).

[LUCASWILLEN05]

Would love to see Eastern Front using this engine but three months is too narrow for my tastes. I would like the first installment oo cover a longer period, say 1943 - 5.

And yer, Herr Oberst I think a Mius River campaign battle would be a great game. There is som more good info in From the Caucasus to the Alps: the history of the23rd Panzer Division (Ernst Rebentish covering that division's rle in this particular battles. Some good maps too, Probably from the Library of Congress Maps room source you mentioned

[Bigduke6]

Sniff...sniff...WOOF!

Comrades! A bone!

Hi,

You can rest easy... there is an Eastern Front title coming. And more later.

Battlefront have been dealing with various bottlenecks in the CM production cycle. The most obvious one being taking on a second, fulltime programmer over the last year or so.

As players of CM we have not yet seen the fruits of this expansion but it is not myth. At some point the time gap between CM releases of new titles and modules will drop dramatically.

I hope they do not do this... . Let me add that CM Afghanistan is a great little title, stunningly atmospheric. But I trust no one other than Battlefront to directly produce any Eastern Front title. After a wait of twelve years there is no room for mistakes and omissions. This one matters .

There is lots of CM stuff to look forward to,

We are lucky to have CM....

All the best,

Kip.

[akd]

Not a bone. Simply what Steve has already said.

[Vark]

Thought the title was going to be based on Bagration, which makes sense. Same time period as Normandy, so reuse the German infantry and armour models, same season summer, so no snow graphics. That way they concentrate on just one new set of models and building graphics plus any changes to the system.

[LemoN]

Honestly, with the way urban combat and close combat is handled in the CMx2 engine I'd stay as far away from any urban settings as possible.

Barbarossa, Taifun, Zitadelle, Bagration etc come to mind.

But yes, I just can't wait for the eastern front... the western front (unless we're talking 1940) is so boring and overdone. :X

[Erwin]

You surprised me with that comment. CM2 seems at its best in urban/MOUT situations. I can't think of another game or sim that comes close.

[LJFHutch]

Just looking over Bagration on wiki and it seem to be a strange setting. As I understand it the Russians just unleashed a devastating artillery barrage and rolled through the defenses while devastating the Germans.

I can't imagine an incredibly diverse bunch of scenarios you could create within Bagration. Wouldn't it be "Russians bombard and overrun German positions while taking minimal casualties" again and again?

[Mad Mike]

I can't imagine an incredibly diverse bunch of scenarios you could create within Bagration. Wouldn't it be "Russians bombard and overrun German positions while taking minimal casualties" again and again?

Why not? It worked for CMSF + 3 modules.

[Sergei]

I can't imagine an incredibly diverse bunch of scenarios you could create within Bagration. Wouldn't it be "Russians bombard and overrun German positions while taking minimal casualties" again and again?

Really??? Red Army lost over half a million men in KIA and WIA and thousands of AFV's in just two months, how is this "minimal casualties" by any definition? German losses were smaller, but irreplaceable.

It's like saying "the battle of Normandy was all about a few Germans defending beaches from their bunkers against overwhelming odds, how could that be an interesting subject?"

[LJFHutch]

Why not? It worked for CMSF + 3 modules.

Quite true

Really??? Red Army lost over half a million men in KIA and WIA and thousands of AFV's in just two months, how is this "minimal casualties" by any definition? German losses were smaller, but irreplaceable.

It's like saying "the battle of Normandy was all about a few Germans defending beaches from their bunkers against overwhelming odds, how could that be an interesting subject?"

I was going off the wiki numbers, where it says there were almost 3 times as many Russians to Germans and they took roughly half the casualties (deaths, does not list wounded for Germans). 350,000 (German) to 180,000 (Soviet), they're pretty good numbers for a major assault by the Soviets

I suppose my main problem with it is that although it was an absolutely epic fight it doesn't allow for much, I don't know, I would be happy to be proved wrong.

[Sergei]

Can you name a setting that allows for more (of what)?

[LUCASWILLEN05]

Following the opening encirclements in Operation Bagratation the Germans moved Panzer divisions from Army Group South who fought through July and August to close the hole created by the initial disaster. Under the able command of Model they eventually succeeded in achieving that goal. But then the Red Army launched an offensive i the South (August 1944) that knocked Roumania out of the war on the Axis side and, indeed to join the allies. The Germans were never able to entirely stabilize the front again.

However, for the Russian Front I think the three month model is too short. Indeed I have the same view on Normandy (which I would like to seee expanded to cover the entire NW European campaign) In the East I would wish to see the game start with coverage of Kursk or preferably 3rd Kharkov to Berlin allowing for many more scenario options.

[Sergei]

CMBN covers more than just Normandy - the Market Garden module will extend timeframe to September(-October?). Beyond that BFC needs to add modelling for winter conditions and winterized graphics for everything, so it wouldn't be easy to cram it into one game.

[stikkypixie]

Following the opening encirclements in Operation Bagratation the Germans moved Panzer divisions from Army Group South who fought through July and August to close the hole created by the initial disaster. Under the able command of Model they eventually succeeded in achieving that goal. But then the Red Army launched an offensive i the South (August 1944) that knocked Roumania out of the war on the Axis side and, indeed to join the allies. The Germans were never able to entirely stabilize the front again.

However, for the Russian Front I think the three month model is too short. Indeed I have the same view on Normandy (which I would like to seee expanded to cover the entire NW European campaign) In the East I would wish to see the game start with coverage of Kursk or preferably 3rd Kharkov to Berlin allowing for many more scenario options.

I believe the plan is that modules for CMBN will cover everything up to Market Garden. Then a new full game will be released covering the Ardennes (+ whatever the modules bring).

So if the East front full game will initially only cover 3 months, the modules should extend that by quite a bit.

[Vark]

Bagration is ideal for the scale that CM depicts, German units launched numerous small scale counter attacks to stem the Russians, who had many of their spearheads savaged. Terrain is varried and unlike CMSF, the initial breakthrough and exploitation phase were not tactical cakewalks, operationally it was another matter.

[LJFHutch]

Can you name a setting that allows for more (of what)?

Not sure to be honest, but I'd love to see something a bit earlier, panzer 3s and the like, also, snow In any case BF has more of a handle on the Eastern Front than I do and I'm sure they'll do it well

[Vark]

I'd love sequential modules on Kursk and the following breakout and the Cherkassy pocket. Then again a reinforced battalion assault through the factory district would be spectacular, though frame rates might lag, as they did with the monster campaign in CMBB!

[Lt Belenko]

I appreciate that Battlefront is a bit busy for this at the moment, but can't they licence the CM engine out to 1C-SoftClub and Snowball Studios like they did for CM Afghanistan?

I hope they do not do this... . Let me add that CM Afghanistan is a great little title, stunningly atmospheric. But I trust no one other than Battlefront to directly produce any Eastern Front title. After a wait of twelve years there is no room for mistakes and omissions. This one matters .

Actually some combination of this would be best. Bulk development by 1C-SoftClub and Snowball Studios to speed the process up. With some fine tuning and adjustments by BFC. It would be like hiring another programmer or 2.

[LemoN]

You surprised me with that comment. CM2 seems at its best in urban/MOUT situations. I can't think of another game or sim that comes close.

I have to strongly disagree.

CMx2's handling of close combat is quite horrible IMHO. Hand to hand combat is not even modelled, buildings are quite sketchy and horribly abstracted compared to all other terrain types, the spotting simply doesn't work in CQC environments (two hostile soldiers facing eachother... next to eachother, takes them at least 30 seconds to spot eachother sometimes... units don't use grenades to clear rooms, etc.

From my experience the CMx2 engine can barely handle fights inside larger villages, let alone towns and even cities. It's good for anything in the 50-2000m range.

[Vark]

The lack of real grenade usage seriously hampers MOUT and leads to excessive casualties. I still cannot think why there cannot be a short range area fire order for grenades, perhaps even with a chance to have them thrown back!

[noxnoctum]

Ya a grenade area fire command would be great.