Howler

Keep working on maps. Smucks like me can spend time isolating TacAI outliers. Map makers should make maps. Alright Princess!

This happened the 10th time regenerating the turn which I find pretty nifty... thought I'd share it. As always, they start an AS to the left of the gap and always run to where you see them here. If they survive - they run back through the gap and stop slightly behind their original position. I've played this sequence back more than a dozen times and this is the only time I've seen them surrender. I think that's really cool.

Yes, check your messages... It's not only you. Save the game during the commands phase and when you notice the problem - reload and regenerate the playback. The only thing that changes for me is how late the unit in question is spotted/fired at. When they decamp - the waypoint is always placed in the same spot towards the enemy firing position. Some generated playbacks has the unit not being spotted at all and thus safe. But, when they are shot at - they invariably break to the same spot causing from no casualties to being wiped out. The withdraw waypoint is always the same spot. I don't know what to make of it either. EDIT: I discovered that playing through turns (advancing the turn) when they didn't receive any fire (and not issuing commands) will show that the waypoint lands in the exact same spot when they do break (a couple generated turns later). EDIT: Went up to 4 turns later before being spotted/fired at. Same waypoint location. Everytime, rather than moving 1 AS back and out of LOS - they run forward out in the open. If they survive - they then run back towards my lines and relative safety.

I reinstalled using the all-in-one and applied the patch (and moving the Z folder over) and will be starting from this configuration today. The one thing that has been consistent is that the patch has made battle creation and save game loads a lot slower (almost twice the time).

I've been saving during the order phase and replaying (regenerating the playback) the turn to record variances. Without fail, the unit will always choose to rush into the open towards the enemy side when they need to decamp. Sometimes they cower remaining in place longer thus breaking later in the turn allowing the waypoint to be redirected on the subsequent order phase. I haven't played in an town setting yet but suspect I'll see similar frustrating waypoint placement as has been reported in SF2.

Neither do I. My (green) teams seem to run towards small arms fire even if it means finding gap a couple of AS away allowing them to rush into the open towards the known firing position. They rarely break back away (and toward my side of the map). I reinstalled and will try another small scenario (Deville).

I didn't know that. I've been playing SF/SF2/BS exclusively the past year and only now getting back into BN. It seems this may also apply to demo charges as loading the previous turn does show one more demo (6). I'll keep a closer eye on it but it sounds like this is a know issue and not something to be concerned about.

19:00 light fire is exchanged... 18:42 enemy position 18:41 team surrenders 18:02 bounding team combines 17:24 quickly recovering state 16:51 fully recovered 16:51 enemy position now vulnerable 16:00 detached to continue bounding flanking maneuver which Panic them 15:59 they recover to a Cautious state 15:02 the other team involved in the split will stay Rattled Really enjoyed working this problem out and seeing it resolve as expected. I thank @Josey Wales post on soft factors and the many responses from others it solicited. This community has the benefit of excellent contributors. The squad showcased above is Green and split into teams in order to flank the right in a series bounding moves with some element providing over watch. They were out of contact with their PL yet managed to complete their task. I moved an element so that both would recombine. Once recovered, I split them again and couldn't shake the rattled state (consistent with expectation) from one team while the other two teams were able to act as cautious).

Thanks, I assumed that originally but wanted to be certain. The problem now seems to be that they start and end the turn with 5 charges and 7 grenades. The charge (or genade) is used as there's a nice explosion and a scream which is always nice to hear in German when playing the Allies. The ammo count seems to be incorrect, is this a known issue?

What kind of grenade is this? Or, should I start looking through my mod folder for the cause...

If Tech Support can fix this issue then I'll open a ticket immediately. In my situation, it's no longer rare to find the 'withdraw' waypoint (spawned when a unit needs to decamp) set towards the enemy side. Units are simply moving towards this waypoint. Unfortunately, they will fast move through whatever gap there is even leaving cover to run into the open towards the enemy side. Wherever that waypoint is initially placed - they will go. In WEGO, you can only wait for that minute to complete hoping that enough of the unit survives to allow it to remain battle capable. This issue has become common and can no longer be easily shrugged off as a war story. Things happen, we all accept that as long as it remains an outlier. Again, has this behavior become more than an edge case? Some of us were already noticing...

Replaying at 7:28 of CW 18 Platoon as reported previously resulted in the team in question not being spotted at all. Another replay saw them shot later in the turn resulting in the same behavior but leaving 2 men healthy. Then I noticed a team on my left flank which was slowly moving up (a series of hunt + 10s pause) all of a sudden bolt towards the open when fire was exchanged with another unit in an adjacent AS. I decided to call it a day as this last was a completely new development occurring only in the fourth replay. By replay I mean load save then generate the turn without altering orders/waypoints. Every flight in this scenario seems to take the unit towards the enemy. Under 4.00 stock (no mods) this scenario takes 1:20 to generate (WEGO/Iron). Under 4.01 modded - it takes 2:00 to generate. To load the save being used as a test case to report this issue - it takes 2:15 to load. I'll take a break to regain some perspective...

You're not the only one. Decided to run CMBN to see the patch in action. Started scenario 18 Platoon as Allied/Iron/WEGO. My very first contact resulted in a Green team (2 Section - B Detachment) running through a break in the hedges towards the enemy side (south) rather than towards my side (north) if I understand @Xorg_Xalargsky description of possible causes. This team had been hiding the previous turn behind the hedgerow facing south (having approached from the north). I simply toggled to unhide. Started receiving fire from the south on playback... It was only rattled suffering no losses until it decided to run towards the MG fire through a nearby gap. Now, in the open, needless to say - they were quickly reduced to one man. At which point, this lone survivor changed his direction of flight to the north, back through the hedgerow gap (their flight had originally taken), and continued to run away out of sight of incoming fire. So, this being a test case for me, I'm not sure what to make of it. I'd been spending my time evaluating changes in CMBS where my impression was a positive one. With CMBN, I don't know. I have the save and have looked at this scenario to determine 'friendly map edge'. It does show properly (Allied-North vs Axis-South).

No problem at all. Simply wanting to comfort those who may still be deciding to patch. Yup, I also forgot and decided to post regardless.

Always good to see in patched release...

Wait until you have a chance to read the patch notes which should be forthcoming soon. Along with the change to unit behavior, there are also tweaks to rates of fire and minor changes to various units such as correcting faulty mortar carriers to name but one of these. You need not patch unless you are playing a PBEM with someone who has. Otherwise, if it's not broken for you - there's nothing to fix. At worst, if you already have to all-in-one installer - you can always try it and revert back if you feel that you need to. It should be as simple as running the v4.0 installer...

As it happens, just last night post-patch, I had a team in a shed shoot two without consequence. In that not only did their suppression meter not flicker - both shots missed! +1 for @domfluff for being faster!

The notes will be posted in the relevant forum(s) when ready. Elvis mentioned not wanting to delay release any further.

It isn't awful and can delay the micro when moving a company. I tried this years ago hoping to avoid this until contact was imminent. My findings at that time, pre-4.0, were: pauses for spotting caused the whole squad to stop (doh!). I much preferred a rolling or cycling spotting pause that individual teams provided. Granted, this granularity is less an issue as larger formations are used given varying pauses (resulting in squads rather than teams providing overwatch). the order is more tiring. It seemed to me that a series of short quick/fast waypoints interspersed by pauses (10-15s) allowed the teams to arrive fresher. I was surprised to see (assault) squads more fatigued over the same distances. the squad reacts more unexpectedly to fire from an unseen quarter. Even when fired from the front, I would prefer them to stop rather then assault until more information was gathered. I found the teams swarming using hunt/quick/fast were more likely to suffer fewer casualties and provide more effective return fire. I realize this can be more a result of WEGO/luck/timing then anything else. The difference being the loss of a team caught between waypoints vice a squad caught assaulting between waypoints... Under 4.0, I haven't bothered given the issues regarding pathfinding and will wait for the corrective patch before trying it again. But, I absolutely love the hull down. That is a real time saver. I can see using it more often in realtime play when a player can pause the action to react. As a WEGO player, I find the 1 minute turn can last hours when a unit is vulnerable... Unfortunately, I don't use it from cover to advance short distances as some have recommended. I kind of micro at that point making it moot...

The bookmark I have for @IanL is

Can you share the change log detailing what each patch entails? TBH, other than unit responses to shelling being tweaked; I'm not sure what, if anything else, is being patched. It would help pass the time while we progress through the very very stages of release. Plus, it would allow us to remain near our screens and not have to contend with yard work, or for that matter, go outside at all...

Again, I'm not a Steam fan boy, his term for gatekeeper is rather loose. You aren't a gatekeeper if other avenues are open to bypassing said gate. He mentions two viable ones, selling direct and Patreon. There's also GoG, Twitch, YouTube, etc... that can be used to attract attention. It's never been easier to be a 'content creator'. The hard part has always been (and remains) 'execution'. In his case, upping his overhead from 8% to 30% (aka Steam Tax) didn't result in expected revenue gains (growth). The fault apparently lies with Steam and their search algorithms. I wish him the best now that he knows the blame isn't on him. To be gatekeeper, you need to foster scarcity artificially and then then be able charge exorbitant rents. Last mile access to the home for telecom services protected by ineffective regulation - yes. A cinema chain dictating price and availability - yes. Steam does not, to my knowledge, dictate cost, availability (scarcity), nor is it unduly protected by regulation to maintain dominance. It's simply a distribution platform. Call me when they start to enforce 'exclusivity' or capriciously dumping titles from their catalog. I guess it's natural to feel some sense of entitlement when we see corporations and industries protected by various governments securing theirs. I'd rather the solution be the removal of such from society. But, I digress... In ant event, I don't see Steam being a solution to whatever we feel ails BFC. While I don't like any DRM; theirs seem to be the least intrusive and disruptive. The already maintain a site to distribute their products. They also own any PR short comings there may be. I think they're doing fine. Every iteration of their product seems to be easier to use (eg all-in-one installer).

Or, you can set short pauses every 40-50m and use quick. Many also use 20-30m fast/quick dashes followed by a short pause to get troops where needed, without tiring them unnecessarily, when enemy activity is expected.

You need to close that barn door before and not afterwards! Steam (not a fanboy) does a few things rather well. These being: cost, exposure, and DRM (not too damaging). Going back to a series of walled gardens with diverse costing, limited titles, and DRM that mangles systems (or incompatible with competing DRM!) is a pipe dream. There are a lot of indie games that would die of obscurity without it. I understand the larger publishers wanting to claw more money back but, that isn't a business plan. Execution is the only thing that matters. Steam executes. EA/Blizzard/etc. can't. Too many decades of easy money are wired into their DNA. Apologies for being off topic.

Except that it is Ooops is my bias showing For our sanity; please put something on to cover your... bias... as you call it. I understand a posting from @Warts 'n' all has that effect on some. Out of curiosity, what does your spouse call it?