Howler

MG Out on a Limb (WEGO - Iron) Not sure what to expect, I managed to maneuver a US squad behind the bunker closest to the Allied setup. Figured two teams would area fire as the third team would get closer to use a demo. Was surprised to see the defenders bail only to have all, but one, fall before the demo team had a chance to approach. It was over fast and left me feeling a little over prepared. The bunker shows as being Knocked Out and it only cost some small arms fire and a few grenades. Can I assume this is working as intended? Searching the subject here reveals an evolution from impossible (to eliminate) to now being the equivalent of a 1-storey structure (perhaps too easy for some). This could very well be a case of 'first time lucky' and not at all attributed to changes in 4.01... just asking.

I wasn't able to find detailed information that you reference but, yes - it's been known for a long time. Not the first time I've discovered something 'new' that might not be... Anyhow, the closest my search got was a response from @IanL postulating that this setting governs how many textures past two actually get loaded. I was surprised by the load times in BN as SF2 is always snappy with BS not being far behind on 'Best'. I'd appreciate your sharing of any details that you may have. EDIT: In retrospect, perhaps I was too hasty to disregard threads relating to Nvidia performance tweaks.

I've only noticed the issue, once localized to foxholes and such, become a more generalized one effecting any small arms fire and terrain. Unfortunately, I simply do not know what issue(s) were corrected in CMBN v4.00 and can't share your appreciation on this matter. This was discussed when SF2 was released. It's mitigated there by simply 'opening' close terrain (eg by leveling structures) with the plentiful destructive firepower most formations have. I assume it's WAD and not deemed to be an issue, as to the best of my knowledge, there will be no further work on SF2.

It's a shame there isn't more transparency. Having a read-only sub-forum would help avoid redundant posts/effort elsewhere. Case in point, the SF2 Canadian Sniper load out post recently which was already reported by others when SF2 was released a few months back. But, it is what it is.

While trying to determine the soundness of my installation, I discovered that the 3D Texture Quality setting really impacts creation and load time. Creating or loading a save of MG Facade Troop took 7 minutes with my patched(CMBN 4.01), modded, and reshade install. I hadn't played this scenario in years and thought something was off. Figured something might be corrupted given my experience with the wacky evasion pathing that 4.01 brought. Anyhow, a fresh install (with reshade) but no mods (Z folder) brought the time down to 1:45. Took a little time to isolate the cause to the 3D Texture Quality being set to Best on my 'modded' install while this new 'test' install was at the default Balanced. Changing it to Best brought the time back up to 6:10 which is reasonable as there are no mods to load. TLDR: 3D Texture Quality impacts create/load times by a factor in excess of 3.

Will do, in the meantime you can take a look at CW 18 Platoon, Deville, and Pleasently Shaded Woodlands which have all exhibited this evasion issue.

Scenario: Pleasently Shaded Woodland (WEGO - Iron) Playing the Allies, I noticed, for the first time, the AI defender evading towards my positions and away from the AXIS friendly map edge. Rattled/Nervous defenders are charging through hedgerow gaps exposing themselves to small arms fire and then running back. I'd seen to odd occurrence in other scenarios but never to such an extent. I had to stop play as it was becoming an undeserved turkey-shoot. I understand the evolution in AI Planning and Map Design over the years and this is not meant to pick on a scenario that likely hasn't been updated since release. I'm more focused on the behavior of player controlled units. Thought I'd mention it as an aside. As always, I have saves available. The Allied mortars have not been used for a good 5 minutes ever since the Sunken Lane was taken. The three teams are relocating. I mention this only because there was some discussion that the erratic evade behaviour could be linked to HE...

Having looked at the Deville example more closely, when the HE occurs 50m behind their position - their suppression meter doesn't register it at all. It's not until a few (5-10) seconds later, when under small arms fire, does it start to tick into green (2 lines) before ultimately filling up and causing an evasion later in the turn.

While both my saves involved units that were stationary, the captured image below without mods this time, could be caused by nearby HE falling. There were a couple of impacts 50m to their 5 o'clock (lower right of center). It's the only difference I can find between replays (regenerating the turn) that show them evading from those that show them remaining in place. The LMG team is unordered and already in position to overwatch. I'll I do is load + red button... The other example (I have a save of) shows the team evading forward and away from the designated friendly map edge solely as a result of small arms fire. I'm still running cycles of your (MarkEzra) provided QB; I can say that I have yet to see anything unusual other than a tendency for teams to snake through the two gaps in the center hedgerow splitting the Allied position. I"m also running a variation of your file that has lower (by one) Allied morale grade in order to force more evasions.

Indeed, interestingly enough, loading the save and selecting the Evade places the waypoint back and away from known contacts. So, the evade routine during the commands phase differs from the evade routine that we will see during playback.

Wouldn't the nearest spot out of LOS simply be a move back and away from the hedge/incoming fire? Heck, I'd accept them running back 50m if that would make them feel safer. From Deville this LMG team was stationary and expected to provide covering fire... Instead, they have decided to run forward rather than back. I got lucky here as they 'break' as the playback ends. I am able to adjust the waypoint... From CW 18 Platoon this team was also stationary and expected to provide covering fire. It occurs early during playback and by the time the commands phase arrives - they've already surrendered. The started in the red ellipses and received fire from 11 o'clock position (upper left from the red ellipses). In either case, all one needs to do is keep hitting the red button until the units do take 'flight'. The waypoint will always be placed in the same spot whether it happens now or 4 minutes (turns) later. I have saves of both. @IanL has one of the saves but I don't know if he's had a chance to load or if it was helpful...

Is it already a known issue that demo charges don't seem to be allocated past the original 2/4 split of charges? Once the team starting with 2 charges have used them - they seem to never get more in subsequent splits. I was trying to workaround the 3 demo charge used to blast by using the smaller allocated team to do the work. The team with 2 charges will use but 1 charge while the other team with 4 charges would use 3 of them for the same work. Anyhow, once that team blasts twice using their 2 charges, I had them merge back into a section. I was surprised to see the split show 0/4 instead of the hoped for 2/2.

Perfectly reasonable assumptions to make given there's already a thread discussing this matter as it relates to BN.

Watching his video, I assumed he was the Axis player. I saw an Axis unit run forward and towards enemy firing position(s) (judging by the tracers) to a position in the open. Please ignore if I got this wrong.

They rarely rush towards the enemy in SF2 so, it can be excused as a war story. When a unit takes 'flight' in this title, the waypoint the TacAI generates can still be a killer particularly in close terrain. The 60-80m the unit travels during playback can be painful to watch. It's been observed that the pathfinding tends to ignore intervening cover even if it means running the whole (60-80m) length of the street in the open (for example). It can be frustrating when we, the player, can see a simple relocation to nearby cover which is away from incoming fire and would result in a lot fewer casualties. The potential for losses lessens the later this 'flight' occurs during playback. If it happens late enough, the player can intervene in the next order phase. I'm not sure if this behavior is intended or not. I'm not aware of any follow-up or formal determination one way or the other... Interestingly enough, I've not seen it in CMBS but that could the relative lethality of both sides. It's very much a 'he who spots first - wins' type of experience... It seems to be almost common in CMBN for the TacAI generated waypoint to be placed towards incoming fire and away from the map designated friendly edge. Again, this could be skewed by the fact that most of my play has involved a lot of hedges/bocage.

FWIW, this title remains the fastest in terms of response and load times. I'm hoping this will spread to other titles as they receive new modules rather than simply a patch.

SF2 is fast and not an issue for me. It makes my gaming system outright peppy. Both BN and BS (less so) are slower by as much as 25% when either creating 'stock' battles or loading saves. I'm discounting the save games that were created prior to the patch. Again, this applies solely to 'stock' scenarios (not those made by the community) nor to other features such as QB or the editor. Has anyone else noticed this?

I stand corrected. The good news is that the bazooka still do that.

You'll be happy to know this has been improved. An 8 man US Pioneer section now use 3 demo charges to blast bocage while a team will use but one. A split will generate two 4 man teams with the A team receiving 2 charges and the B team getting 4 charges of the 6 demo charges.

US Infantry 13 man squad splits a 2 scout team with 3 grenades. US Pioneer 8 man section splits a 2 man scout with no demo and 3 grenades. Has anyone else noticed that breaking away scout teams no longer results in an inordinate number of grenades/special equipment being assigned to the scouts? Or, was this tendency corrected a long time prior to this patch...

Yup, when a unit decides it needs to relocate, it's more common to have this (decamp/evade/withdraw) waypoint placed forward (away from the scenario designated friendly map edge) without consideration of cover (they will bypass intervening walls/ditches/buildings/etc.) to end movement in a more exposed position. Your screen shot captures this nicely. Some have postulated that variances in elevation may be an important factor. In any event, having reached this waypoint and should it need to decamp again - it has invariably done so in a more sensible manner. This being farther back from it's original position, towards the scenario designated friendly map edge and away from last known enemy contacts. What I've been doing is reloading the save, selecting the unit that will soon decamp 'badly' , and hitting the Evade to inspect the waypoint it generates. This waypoint is not the same as what will later be generated when the unit does take flight. This waypoint will rarely generate a location forward and towards know enemy positions (this is a good thing). I then Cancel the Evade and generate the turn. If the unit hasn't decamped, I keep generating turns until it does. Sometimes as many as 4 turns have been needed in order to see them decamp at which point they will follow the exact same 'flight' path. As long has they remain stationary - it seems this waypoint is always placed in the same location regardless of variances of known contacts or time (WEGO turn).

Despite my posts in this thread; there are many cool things happening in game. I'm playing scenarios I haven't seen since the original launch and it's been invoking good memories. I simply don't recall so many rushes towards enemy positions. I don't know what to make of it. In your case, did they break forward and towards the enemy edge of the map? I don't mind *stuff* happening when a unit breaks. I'm taken aback by seeing so many instances of them being rushes forward. Whatever survives usually rush right back towards friendly lines once the dust settles. It's that initial creation of the waypoint which will guide them while breaking that has me wondering...

FWIW, hitting the 'Evade' button (to the right of the pause and cancel buttons) will sometimes place the path forward and away from the friendly side of the map. It's rare but it has happened once in my tiny sample size (10 runs). I don't know how much code, if any, is shared between the routines for 'Evade' and the placement of the 'Withdraw' (?) waypoint when a unit breaks and runs... My test cases show the Evade placed back both away from known contacts and towards the friendly side of the map while that same unit will decamp forward and towards enemy positions when the turn is generated. I'm hitting the evade only to verify. It's cancelled/removed by the time the RED button is clicked for the turn to generate.

I'm only trying to help identify the cause. It may have been yourself who stated that this might be related to a move and or facing command being issued. I have the save game for this also which will show the team in question not being ordered at all. Hopefully my posts on this subject are viewed as being helpful...

The selected team was already in position the previous turn and was expected to provide covering fire (no orders pending). Incoming fire from the two contacts in the house caused the three teams that had been sent forward to break and run back. This (other) team though will break forward and towards incoming fire... Deville