Chibot Mk IX

This will make more sense if we put the thinking of maneuver warfare aside and adopt to the Pacific war mindset. In pacific war the US and Japanese fight inch by inch on some uninhabitable islands, the objective is to put the other side’s main base and sea lane behind it into the bomber’s range. They fight on Guadalcanal to prevent the IJN’s torpedo bomber interdict the communication between Australia and Vanuatu. Fight on the New Guinea to isolate Rabaul. Fight on Saipan so that the B-29 can reach mainland Japan.
Russian on the Southern front might have the same mindset. One inch step back means UKR’s artillery group is one inch closer to the main supply artery.  
 

This will make more sense if we put the thinking of maneuver warfare aside and adopt to the Pacific war mindset. In pacific war the US and Japanese fight inch by inch on some uninhabitable islands, the objective is to put the other side’s main base and sea lane behind it into the bomber’s range. They fight on Guadalcanal to prevent the IJN’s torpedo bomber interdict the communication between Australia and Vanuatu. Fight on the New Guinea to isolate Rabaul. Fight on Saipan so that the B-29 can reach mainland Japan.
Russian on the Southern front might have the same mindset. One inch step back means UKR’s artillery group is one inch closer to the main supply artery.  
 

This will make more sense if we put the thinking of maneuver warfare aside and adopt to the Pacific war mindset. In pacific war the US and Japanese fight inch by inch on some uninhabitable islands, the objective is to put the other side’s main base and sea lane behind it into the bomber’s range. They fight on Guadalcanal to prevent the IJN’s torpedo bomber interdict the communication between Australia and Vanuatu. Fight on the New Guinea to isolate Rabaul. Fight on Saipan so that the B-29 can reach mainland Japan.
Russian on the Southern front might have the same mindset. One inch step back means UKR’s artillery group is one inch closer to the main supply artery.  
 

This will make more sense if we put the thinking of maneuver warfare aside and adopt to the Pacific war mindset. In pacific war the US and Japanese fight inch by inch on some uninhabitable islands, the objective is to put the other side’s main base and sea lane behind it into the bomber’s range. They fight on Guadalcanal to prevent the IJN’s torpedo bomber interdict the communication between Australia and Vanuatu. Fight on the New Guinea to isolate Rabaul. Fight on Saipan so that the B-29 can reach mainland Japan.
Russian on the Southern front might have the same mindset. One inch step back means UKR’s artillery group is one inch closer to the main supply artery.  
 

This will make more sense if we put the thinking of maneuver warfare aside and adopt to the Pacific war mindset. In pacific war the US and Japanese fight inch by inch on some uninhabitable islands, the objective is to put the other side’s main base and sea lane behind it into the bomber’s range. They fight on Guadalcanal to prevent the IJN’s torpedo bomber interdict the communication between Australia and Vanuatu. Fight on the New Guinea to isolate Rabaul. Fight on Saipan so that the B-29 can reach mainland Japan.
Russian on the Southern front might have the same mindset. One inch step back means UKR’s artillery group is one inch closer to the main supply artery.  
 

This will make more sense if we put the thinking of maneuver warfare aside and adopt to the Pacific war mindset. In pacific war the US and Japanese fight inch by inch on some uninhabitable islands, the objective is to put the other side’s main base and sea lane behind it into the bomber’s range. They fight on Guadalcanal to prevent the IJN’s torpedo bomber interdict the communication between Australia and Vanuatu. Fight on the New Guinea to isolate Rabaul. Fight on Saipan so that the B-29 can reach mainland Japan.
Russian on the Southern front might have the same mindset. One inch step back means UKR’s artillery group is one inch closer to the main supply artery.  
 

This will make more sense if we put the thinking of maneuver warfare aside and adopt to the Pacific war mindset. In pacific war the US and Japanese fight inch by inch on some uninhabitable islands, the objective is to put the other side’s main base and sea lane behind it into the bomber’s range. They fight on Guadalcanal to prevent the IJN’s torpedo bomber interdict the communication between Australia and Vanuatu. Fight on the New Guinea to isolate Rabaul. Fight on Saipan so that the B-29 can reach mainland Japan.
Russian on the Southern front might have the same mindset. One inch step back means UKR’s artillery group is one inch closer to the main supply artery.  
 

This will make more sense if we put the thinking of maneuver warfare aside and adopt to the Pacific war mindset. In pacific war the US and Japanese fight inch by inch on some uninhabitable islands, the objective is to put the other side’s main base and sea lane behind it into the bomber’s range. They fight on Guadalcanal to prevent the IJN’s torpedo bomber interdict the communication between Australia and Vanuatu. Fight on the New Guinea to isolate Rabaul. Fight on Saipan so that the B-29 can reach mainland Japan.
Russian on the Southern front might have the same mindset. One inch step back means UKR’s artillery group is one inch closer to the main supply artery.  
 

I think the issue here is that "spraying and praying" in the general direction of the enemy is probably more effective than it is in real life as the bursts of fire seem to either be in the general direction of the enemy or missing completely, I don't think the game models how recoil causes each shot within the bursts itself to become increasingly inaccurate. And since SMGs in game can get more bursts off in the general direction of the enemy due to higher ammunition expenditure, they get more kills.

I'm not sure if they should artificially make SMGs take more rounds to kill, realistically, a 7.62 Tokarev at 150m will probably kill just fine, maybe they should just increase the chances of SMG bursts being completely off target and missing completely to better simulate the recoil.

As I recall, the original issue was that the TacAI is too accurate, I can recall early versions of CMBN where the AI would fire their Thompson SMGs like a mortar and hit targets 300+ meters away. Various tweaks were tried to get the AI to act more human like, but hey, it is an AI...That is why you have the current system with the hard range stop and reducing the accuracy of SMG fire. It works pretty well most of the time since SMGs are not a main infantry weapon. Where you have a problem is with units that are equipped just with SMGs, like Russian SMG squads, which are probably more effective than they should be at short-range, although there is not much than can be done without totally nerfing SMGs.
I ran a quick test a while ago and at 150 meters, SMGs had to fire 200 rounds for each casualty they caused.
This may also be of interest:
 

Just saw on twitter there is one more confirmed Ka-52 kills. Interesting to see more and more alligators fall to the victim of Manpads.
Back in June Alligators brought so much havoc among concentrated UKR armor column.  They can hide deep in the friendly controlled territory, share information with surveillance drone and infantry posts, then jump out and fire at max range. In June Ukrainian claimed shot down several Ka-52 but none can be confirmed. Now after UKR force slowly penetrate the minefield and took a distributed formation, the Ka-52’s old trick doesn’t work as it used to be anymore. 
 

Russian sources wrote, this morning "after intensive artilery strikes UKR troops launched next mass offensive on Rabotino"... ehmm... with FOUR Strikers (yes, really mass). But attack was repelled and "our helicopters now hunting on enemy, lurking in trees"
As a result of this hunting - 47th brigade shot down Ka-52 with MANPAD (I've seen claims it was Robot 70, but it's can be verified). Russian Fighterbomber TG confirmed this loss simultainously with issuing of photo by 47th brigade, but he rejected that Ukraine troops shot down second Ka-52 on Bakhmut direction also this morning as claimed UKR General Staff. Pilot of sowned Ka-52 ejected, the navigator has died. 

Moment of Ka-52 hit
UKR TG tells about fight in Robotyne:
The battle is continuing in Robotyne. The meat grinder not easier than in Klishchiivka. Most of Russian units, that are sent in assaults have been loosing up to 40 % of personnel for a battle, so Russians have been throwing each time new "not local" infantry. 
We also have hard situation. "Pidors" have strongpoint behind the village from whic they perfectly can look over terrain  [the location between Robotyne and Novoprokopivka village next to south is highest point],  so the they have good opportunity for ATGMing of our vehicles
From both sides all the time heavy artilery and aviation have been working. Russians drop bombs on Orikhiv 
Some videos from RIbotyne area:
Next UKR Bradley after direct hit of Russian tank (as claimed cameraman). ERA blocks looks like saved vehicle and it can be repaired
 
Bradley delivered wounded soldiers after next attack
 

UKR Humvee evacuates wounded from battlefield. When it drives, AP-mine has blown up under the wheel, but the vehicle continued moving
 

Yes, that is my understanding too. more bullets fired = more kills. simple like that. 
So far we don't know too much about the game mechanism on casualty caused by small arms fire. 
I just happened to read the reports from Drifter Man. It has a similar indication. The number of casualties is determined by a coefficient and is directly proportional to ammunition consumption, while inversely proportional to distance. These three values constitute a linear function. LMG, SMG and bold action rifle have different coefficient, and unfortunately for StG44, it has similar coefficient with other SMGs, so the StG44's low rate of fire at 150m -200m distance doesn't help. 
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/enmae2qpysgkace/CMBN Weapons Tests 2020.pdf
page 24
 
Also the page 13 shows the relationship between the RoF and distance.
 
Note based on his page 13 and 24's graphic the MP40 is likely causing 100% more casualty than MP44. 
MP44 has 1/3 of RoF compare to SMG at 150m , and MP44 needs 200 rounds to causing a casualty at that distance while MP40 needs 300rds. 
my test has same conclusion.
his two reports can be found here
 
 
 
 
I think we can bring up two more questions.
Is it normal for SMG to keep a high rate of burst fire at long distance?
Assuming the high rate of SMG fire at long distance is normal, since most of the SMG have auto fire mode only while inexperienced soldiers are likely spray and pray, many of the bullets will miss the target due to recoil. Should SMG suffer more penalties on rounds per kill at >150m distance? 
 
 

FYI, I did a test compare a 3 men StG 44 team with a 3 men MP40 team at 180m distance. I would say, MP40 is twice deadly as StG44
180m test, 5 min
  test 1
test 2
test 3
test 4
test 5
test 6
test 7
test 8
test 9
test 10
                        3 men StG44 team kills
  5
5
4
7
7
8
2
5
7
7
expended ammo
  225
237
226
229
229
235
224
227
236
228
                        3 men MP40 team kills
  10
12
10
7
9
11
10
8
10
10
expended ammo
  551
533
576
582
581
609
575
582
589
587
And then in a different test, I put a platoon of PPSh in front of a platoon of StG 44 at 180m distance. The StG 44 platoon is decimated in less than 3 minutes
Will send a report in general discussion later this week. 
 

"IR Optics" does not necessarily mean that a vehicle has thermal imagers. IR Optics also refers to the IR Lamp and sight.
Edit: I'm really sorry, I didn't realise that this was from over a year ago.
@Chibot Mk IX The manual doesn't make any statement about the T-64BV (or the Bulat for that matter) having thermal imagers. It may be worth logging a helpdesk ticket, as these are reviewed by Battlefront staff and they can document it as a bug to be worked on.

Just before I hit the post button I run another test and noticed something weird, PPSh-41 and PPS-43 have different rate of fire when issued area fire command. As the attached video shows, PPS-43 behave more like a MP40.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vEh66ZGUtB0
That partially makes sense as PPS-43 has full auto mode only while there are several versions of PPSh-41 can make single shot. However the question is , will this fire rate difference cause any lethalness difference in CM gameplay?  This is something I need to look into later.
The fire rate table has been updated
  min 0 min 1 min 2 min 3 min 4 min 5   Rate of fire StG44 0 53 97 151 194 251   50.2 MP40 0 126 248 379 492 624   124.8 PPSh-41 0 77 167 227 308 392   78.4 PPS-43 0 149 299 423 551     137.8  

I know there have been complaints about the CM SMG's performance, which piqued my curiosity about their effectiveness at long ranges. To shed light on this matter, I conducted a series of tests using CMRT, comparing the StG 44 and the SMG. The results were quite surprising, as the SMG outperformed the StG 44 at long range. In this article, I will share the details of these tests and the implications they hold.
 
Test 1: Area Firing at Buildings
For this test, I deployed a 3-men StG44 team (split from an 80% headcount Sturmgrenadier Squad), a 3-men MP40 scout team, and a 3-men PPSh-41 scout team on the map. The target command was given to fire at buildings located 180m away from them. The results were fascinating. The StG44 fired single shots, the MP40 fired short bursts, and the PPSh-41 employed a combination of single shots and short bursts. (Video link attached)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1ElUaGi7WM
 

 
Scenario attached
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/ivbvr1qbu6ul5n21wuedo/05-SMG-StG-evaluation.btt?rlkey=07pg80esu7mypeihj6scj8ni1&dl=0
 
 
Test 2: Lethalness Comparison between MP40 and StG44
To compare the lethality of the MP40 and the StG44, I set up an open terrain map with buildings blocking the line of sight between left and right. Both the MP40 and StG44 teams were placed in one-story buildings. At a distance of 180m, a Soviet rifle platoon was positioned in front of each team. I began the scenario as Soviet under scenario testing mode. A "hold fire" order with a target arc was given, and the number of casualties and bullets fired were recorded over five minutes. Surprisingly, the MP40 team caused twice as many casualties as the StG44 team. 

 
Scenario attached
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/rkwf0av9adv4rkyertluy/06-SMG-STG-Evaluation-II.btt?rlkey=p9t19j7j7laew6juz5ajcy9yt&dl=0
 
 
Test 3: SMG vs. Sturmgrenadier Platoon
In the final test, I assembled a Sturmgrenadier platoon and an SMG platoon in an arena. The PPSh-41 and PPS-43 in the SMG platoon demonstrated a significant advantage compared to the StG44.the German side managed to secure one victory in ten tests, it could be considered a lucky outcome, as the Soviet side lost two squad leaders in the first turn.
 

Scenario attached
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/58ou60suywb05dj0b9rwz/07-SMG-STG-evaluation-III.btt?rlkey=7z89kmv246d05f6t1qvxtdhbn&dl=0
 
 
Conclusion:
Based on these comprehensive tests, it is evident that the SMGs in CMRT exhibit a level of overpowered performance at long ranges.
 
 
**************************************************************************************************************

While the StG44 was once known for its fire superiority at 100m in CMx1 versions, the current results indicate a clear shift in the dynamics.
 
The effectiveness of SMGs at extended distances calls for further study and testing.

Just before I hit the post button I run another test and noticed something weird, PPSh-41 and PPS-43 have different rate of fire when issued area fire command. As the attached video shows, PPS-43 behave more like a MP40.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vEh66ZGUtB0
That partially makes sense as PPS-43 has full auto mode only while there are several versions of PPSh-41 can make single shot. However the question is , will this fire rate difference cause any lethalness difference in CM gameplay?  This is something I need to look into later.
The fire rate table has been updated
  min 0 min 1 min 2 min 3 min 4 min 5   Rate of fire StG44 0 53 97 151 194 251   50.2 MP40 0 126 248 379 492 624   124.8 PPSh-41 0 77 167 227 308 392   78.4 PPS-43 0 149 299 423 551     137.8  

Whoa, there buddy.
Both my wife and I are lifelong runners. She once described my legs to someone else as dangerously sexy. The same can be said of her. Even today at age 68, she has the legs of a 30 year old. (I'm 66 and we both still run). Last week I was halfway through a 5 mile run, passed a lady on the sidewalk, as I moved out into the street to pass her (I don't like brushing past people as they seldom here you coming and you can scare them half to death by saying "On your left"). Got about 50 feet past her, hopped back on the sidewalk, and she yells out "Great legs!!!"  
Still got it. 🙂
So, engineers CAN be sexy. Even retired ones.
Funny thing was I was right near my turnaround point so I got to run back past her face-to-face this time. She did not seem embarrassed in the least, just smiled and waved. 
Dave
PS - Our first date was a lunchtime run. We worked at adjacent companies. I ran to her front gate, we went for a nice run down by Long Island Sound, and chatted a lot along the way. Very public, so very safe. 

Finally, I have finished this great campaign (and thank you for creating this masterpiece George MC! ) It took me four years.... Yes, I checked my mission 1 save file, it dated back in July 2019! 
 
in Mission 4 that requires the player to make the decision. I took the route of continuing the attack without resupply (leads to mission 5B) . I will try the different mission later.
 

FYI, I did a test compare a 3 men StG 44 team with a 3 men MP40 team at 180m distance. I would say, MP40 is twice deadly as StG44
180m test, 5 min
  test 1
test 2
test 3
test 4
test 5
test 6
test 7
test 8
test 9
test 10
                        3 men StG44 team kills
  5
5
4
7
7
8
2
5
7
7
expended ammo
  225
237
226
229
229
235
224
227
236
228
                        3 men MP40 team kills
  10
12
10
7
9
11
10
8
10
10
expended ammo
  551
533
576
582
581
609
575
582
589
587
And then in a different test, I put a platoon of PPSh in front of a platoon of StG 44 at 180m distance. The StG 44 platoon is decimated in less than 3 minutes
Will send a report in general discussion later this week. 
 

https://twitter.com/TheDeadDistrict/status/1687885170693537792?t=NteBvNd5xR_jaOAwyNejdg&s=09
 

Finally, I have finished this great campaign (and thank you for creating this masterpiece George MC! ) It took me four years.... Yes, I checked my mission 1 save file, it dated back in July 2019! 
 
in Mission 4 that requires the player to make the decision. I took the route of continuing the attack without resupply (leads to mission 5B) . I will try the different mission later.
 

Interesting post about mobile signal jammers used by Russians:
"Good" news continued - RUS started using multi-band jammers in trenches and portable ones for infantry teams. On the battery, of course. About +20-30kg, but the mobik will keep it. The problem is that it works and really protects against FPV drones. Of course, a drone hanging at 150-200m can easily drop something on the heads of RUS, and in principle it could, but there are now such 4W jammers used on a mass scale. Here we are already talking about a few hundred meters range.
The armor-bullet race continues. This time in the form of a WRE drone, and as some specialists had assumed even before this stage of the war - electronic warfare measures are the most effective in neutralizing drones. They don't have to be top, there just have to be a lot of them. Where are the Polish Armed Forces in this? In the forest. Diplomatically speaking. Ie there are even top systems bought - right
 But a bit too little and not at the level of ... trenches or individual vehicles. Ironically, UA are currently copying RUS ideas in this field because FPV [Ukrianian] "dildolots" have so "baked them" that the problem has become significant. It's worse with the Lancets - there is solid hardware and unusual antennas and bands. Anyway, ingredients are changed once every larger production series. Lancet is not a drone - it's precision ammunition. Photo of the RUS jammer obtained from Friends from Ukraine.