Cobetco

Ah so a guy with a bookshelf of tank books and tank models thinks “tanks are fine”…not exactly surprising.  This is starting with a conclusion and going from there, a lot of bias from that start state.  “Not enough information to draw a conclusion, so the one I started with is safe”, is a conclusion.
I am not sure what is going on beyond there is something going on.  I get not being able to draw firm conclusions but this whole war has defied a lot of conventional logic.  Some of it is Russia performance but that under-assesses the performance of the UA.
For example, most Russian tanks on Oryx have been abandoned (and some towed), so one could argue that had nothing to do with smart ATGMs or UAVs.  However, if this occurred because Russian logistics were cut to pieces, by ATGMs and UAVs, the implication is that something is going on with logistics security.  A T90 is just as much a paperweight as an M1A2 if they are out of gas so, no “the tanks are not fine” if we now need to rethink our logistics concepts.
In short, something has occurred that impacted the entire Russian system causing it to fail in its objectives, stall, and now starting to fallback.  How much if that is Russian incompetence, and how much is being forced upon them by the UA methods and equipment is a really big unknown.  The role and value of the entire MBT capability is in question at the moment, at least until we can figure out what happened.  Same can be asked of fast air and mech infantry as well.  
The worst way to go into trying to understand impacts and implications when encountering a disruptive event is with pre-set conclusions.  This is a serious problem for military developers as one has to switch to inductive logic, something militaries are not really good at.  We start with a framework “a real war needs tanks to work”, make an observation “tanks did not work for Russia” and deduce “this is not a real war”.   Inductive logic builds a framework based on observation, the framework becomes negotiable and starts with “What the hell just happened?”

Maxim MG, the system 100+ years in servise!  
These MG use fire support companies of motorized infantry battalions and territorial defense battalions
 

Seems legit:
 
 

And soon followed by the quiet rumble of an approaching predatory John Deere...
*cue Jaws music*
 
 
 

one in which the moon is actually made of cheese.

no that's not what it said, the terms the BBC have stated are what we already knew. no joining any blocks, cede Donbass and Crimea, and make Russian a protected language. and disarm. its not progress. the BBC is delusional thinking this a a good deal for Ukraine.

Boy you are really channeling  your namesake - watch out  you may spill some of your precious fluids if you get too excited .

How about start thinking?

Think again.

one in which the moon is actually made of cheese.

I think being drunk is part of the pre-flight check. that or they wanted to go home. 
"we expended our ammo, very successful sortie." 

one in which the moon is actually made of cheese.

one in which the moon is actually made of cheese.

In what world would a website called "anti 5g" be a remotely credible source.

okay so this whole thing about us only seeing one side of the battle.. who's fault is that?  Folks here are avidly combing ANYTHING they can get.  There was a post a while back where the Russians were showing off a couple items they'd captured.  There has been some analysis of the UKR retreat from around Kherson.  The problem is there is a huge dearth of decent info/video from the Russian side.  We get our best info on Russian successes from Haiduk and radio intercepts of freaking out Russians. Oh wait yeah that doesn't reflect successes.  Nor does the 4 count em 4 dead Major Generals.
Want to guess why that might be the case?  It is 20 days now since the Russian Blitzkrieg launched an attack from the Belarus border towards Kiev which is 60 freakin miles away and they still aren't there.  Putin just keeps saying they are still on plan.  Which f'n plan is that?  last I'd heard the plan was to be in Kiev in 3 days.
Brovary is only 13 miles away so if the Russian plan is just to build up an arty park, they are already in range.
Let's stop pretending like the fog of war is hiding the possible truth that the war is going Russia's way even if slowly.  I am not sure Ukraine has enough tractors to haul away the whole Russian army, but they are making a pretty heroic effort.

Personally, I think this thread is one of the better places processing information.
Artist twitter/socialmedia is filled with people with bad takes, people ignoring the situation, or people screaming about WW3 and we're all going to die.  My favorite however, is people begging for the sanctions to be lifted, because pretty much every Russian contract artist is now out of a job. which is very pitiable until those same people then start screaming about how this is NATOs fault (most of these people don't know what NATO is) and going on about biolabs or whatever this weeks excuse for the invasion Russia has cooked up. 

Personally, I think this thread is one of the better places processing information.
Artist twitter/socialmedia is filled with people with bad takes, people ignoring the situation, or people screaming about WW3 and we're all going to die.  My favorite however, is people begging for the sanctions to be lifted, because pretty much every Russian contract artist is now out of a job. which is very pitiable until those same people then start screaming about how this is NATOs fault (most of these people don't know what NATO is) and going on about biolabs or whatever this weeks excuse for the invasion Russia has cooked up. 

A few general rules of thumb here.

The first is recon. The Soviet method is a command push - that is to say that you are using an element (typically an infantry platoon) to advance on the same axis that your main force will follow, perhaps 10-30 minutes ahead.

The purpose of this reconnaissance element is to find the enemy position, and to report back. They may well find it by dying, but that's not a requirement - the important bit is an aggressive probe that takes risk, but reveals the enemy efficiently.

When you know this, you have a couple of things - you have a target for your artillery, which should start being called in immediately, and you have spotting contacts which can be transmitted to the rest of the force. The recon platoon is usually one of the infantry platoons for this reason - they'll send contacts up the C2 chain to the follow-on forces.

The artillery is not necessarily being called in on the spotted targets (although it might be). The aim here is to shape the later tank engagement, either by suppressing or destroying the targets, or by denying the supporting positions that the targets will need.

The core of any US position in CMCW are the TOW vehicles, which are extremely squishy (even if artillery doesn't destroy them, any fragmentation on the M901's hammerhead will usually take that out). It's then important to target those, or where they could be (or more accurately, where it would be terrible for you if they were).


So the endstate here is that you're not running into the position blind, and expecting your moving, blind tanks to out-spot the stationary, prepared tanks with good optics, because you're never going to win that fight.


The second point is the use of terrain. The Soviets want to create situations where they have relatively short ranged engagements (sub-1.5km) and enough space to mass fires. You want to be engaging with a line of tanks all at once, so that they maximise their chance at spotting.

That means you need a covered approach, and enough space to operate in. Smoke can be useful here, and would form part of the fireplan which you have been calling in since the recon elements first made contact, such that they will start falling when the main force arrives. 

The Soviets had three defined uses of smoke (blinding, camouflage and decoy) - on your own position to conceal your movements (i.e., creating "terrain" to mask your movements) on the enemy to blind them (using smoke to shape the engagement, cutting out sections of their line such that you can put maximum force on a minimal portion of the enemy - don't fight through your own smoke), and deception (to confuse as to the actual direction and shape of the attack). Clearly that last point only works against a human opponent. Smokes can be Frontal, Oblique or Flank, depending on the situation.


So, the current position:


- You know where the enemy is, with a fair degree of certainty, and you've shared the spotting contacts with everyone.
- You've worked out what axis you're going to attack on, with as covered a route as possible
- You've been planning and preparing your artillery mission(s) to support the move.

A really important point at this stage is not just to plan the target of the move, but the direction of further advance - you need to know where you're going afterwards at all times.

When the shells start falling, you move up the armour. Tanks-first. You already know the locations of some of the armour, so they will start getting spots, but there's also nothing stopping you area-firing to supplement that. "Maximum fires" is the go-to, since you're trying to overwhelm the enemy with a sudden, devastating attack.

Further, once this starts, you *keep moving*, at least on the macro scale. You need to press forwards, and not get bogged down. It's very, very easy to focus on the one objective, and then to get stuck aimlessly, coming under artillery fire or counter-attack. This does mean that when you commit, it's important to commit fully, and to follow-through. It's very tempting to hold back and to lose confidence, but "audacity" is the term in US military parlance - you need to be bold and confident in what you're doing, and force a situation where you're the proactive party, and the enemy has to react to you.


 

Personally, I think this thread is one of the better places processing information.
Artist twitter/socialmedia is filled with people with bad takes, people ignoring the situation, or people screaming about WW3 and we're all going to die.  My favorite however, is people begging for the sanctions to be lifted, because pretty much every Russian contract artist is now out of a job. which is very pitiable until those same people then start screaming about how this is NATOs fault (most of these people don't know what NATO is) and going on about biolabs or whatever this weeks excuse for the invasion Russia has cooked up. 

Personally, I think this thread is one of the better places processing information.
Artist twitter/socialmedia is filled with people with bad takes, people ignoring the situation, or people screaming about WW3 and we're all going to die.  My favorite however, is people begging for the sanctions to be lifted, because pretty much every Russian contract artist is now out of a job. which is very pitiable until those same people then start screaming about how this is NATOs fault (most of these people don't know what NATO is) and going on about biolabs or whatever this weeks excuse for the invasion Russia has cooked up. 

Personally, I think this thread is one of the better places processing information.
Artist twitter/socialmedia is filled with people with bad takes, people ignoring the situation, or people screaming about WW3 and we're all going to die.  My favorite however, is people begging for the sanctions to be lifted, because pretty much every Russian contract artist is now out of a job. which is very pitiable until those same people then start screaming about how this is NATOs fault (most of these people don't know what NATO is) and going on about biolabs or whatever this weeks excuse for the invasion Russia has cooked up. 

Personally, I think this thread is one of the better places processing information.
Artist twitter/socialmedia is filled with people with bad takes, people ignoring the situation, or people screaming about WW3 and we're all going to die.  My favorite however, is people begging for the sanctions to be lifted, because pretty much every Russian contract artist is now out of a job. which is very pitiable until those same people then start screaming about how this is NATOs fault (most of these people don't know what NATO is) and going on about biolabs or whatever this weeks excuse for the invasion Russia has cooked up. 

Personally, I think this thread is one of the better places processing information.
Artist twitter/socialmedia is filled with people with bad takes, people ignoring the situation, or people screaming about WW3 and we're all going to die.  My favorite however, is people begging for the sanctions to be lifted, because pretty much every Russian contract artist is now out of a job. which is very pitiable until those same people then start screaming about how this is NATOs fault (most of these people don't know what NATO is) and going on about biolabs or whatever this weeks excuse for the invasion Russia has cooked up. 

Personally, I think this thread is one of the better places processing information.
Artist twitter/socialmedia is filled with people with bad takes, people ignoring the situation, or people screaming about WW3 and we're all going to die.  My favorite however, is people begging for the sanctions to be lifted, because pretty much every Russian contract artist is now out of a job. which is very pitiable until those same people then start screaming about how this is NATOs fault (most of these people don't know what NATO is) and going on about biolabs or whatever this weeks excuse for the invasion Russia has cooked up. 

Did you even read that New York Times article ?  It clearly describes how all these wild theories you and John K are so enthusiastically promoting are  essentially null and void . The labs as they currently exist  are still in use by the Ukrainian Government do things like ...study Covid and other actual risks  . Practical Civilian based  activities .