Boche Posted December 29, 2019 Share Posted December 29, 2019 Im playing the dutch campaign and have to say the same thing has carried over from SF1, im suprised no one has mentioned it. The dutch GILL ATGM is completely broken. I havnt done the maths but im getting less than a 10% hit rate in all my launches. The missiles constantly over shoot the target and drop 50-100 meteres behind the target. We use that ATGM in my unit and although it depends alot on the users skill its nowhere near a less than 10% impact weapon. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt.Squarehead Posted December 29, 2019 Share Posted December 29, 2019 Interesting you say that, I just played one of the stock SF2 Dutch scenarios and had what I had assumed was awful luck with my Gil launchers.....Pretty much exactly as you describe: 39 minutes ago, Boche said: The missiles constantly over shoot the target and drop 50-100 meteres behind the target. FWIW 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin2k Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 (edited) I made a small test scenario 400x400 meters, flat, with 10 immobilized T-55 tanks. Let it run four times. On average after around 15 GILL launches the 10 tanks are destroyed. That is how I remember it from earlier games. (Though earlier I played with v2.01 and this test was done in v2.02.) Edited December 30, 2019 by Kevin2k 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bud Backer Posted January 2, 2020 Share Posted January 2, 2020 They were devastatingly effective in a PBEM battle I did some months ago. And I had only a limited number of them so it’s not that I could afford to volley fire dozens. Broken? Not convinced. Not by a long shot. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Lancelot Posted July 11, 2020 Share Posted July 11, 2020 the Gil was working, but now it's completely broken. I can confirm the same problem - the vast majority of my missiles overshoot their targets 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lethaface Posted July 14, 2020 Share Posted July 14, 2020 What I found out was that the Gill performs great from higher rises, firing at targets lower than itself. The other way around 100% of the missiles would impact the ground. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c3k Posted July 16, 2020 Share Posted July 16, 2020 This is an issue being looked at. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slysniper Posted July 16, 2020 Share Posted July 16, 2020 Yes, this has been known and reported and it is fixed, you will see the correction when the next patch is released. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarendJanNL Posted July 16, 2020 Share Posted July 16, 2020 Great to eventually hear something (official?) about the broken Gill, even better that it will be fixed! What about the Dutch Radio issue and the (CV90) Airburst munition problems? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c3k Posted July 16, 2020 Share Posted July 16, 2020 5 hours ago, BarendJanNL said: Great to eventually hear something (official?) about the broken Gill, even better that it will be fixed! What about the Dutch Radio issue and the (CV90) Airburst munition problems? Known issues, just like the Gill. I'm not authorized to say more. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bufo Posted July 16, 2020 Share Posted July 16, 2020 12 minutes ago, c3k said: Known issues, just like the Gill. I'm not authorized to say more. Do you have an ETA until the next patch? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarendJanNL Posted July 16, 2020 Share Posted July 16, 2020 Known issues, just like the Gill. I'm not authorized to say more. Who is? Waiting for months to start the 'Back on Tracks' campaign with proper ATGM's and autocannons, only thing I hear is 'Know problem'. Thanks in advance 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarendJanNL Posted July 16, 2020 Share Posted July 16, 2020 Nevermind, just saw the news about the patches, hope it will be fixed 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarendJanNL Posted July 16, 2020 Share Posted July 16, 2020 Reaction from @BFCElvis: 'From the readme file: "* FIXED: Gill ATGM had an abnormally high miss rate against targets in ideal conditions" ' However, in the last game (with the V2.03 patch) I still needed 20+ Gills to kill 7 vehicles, because the missile often overshoots. Can anyone confirm or deny? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFCElvis Posted July 16, 2020 Share Posted July 16, 2020 1 hour ago, BarendJanNL said: Reaction from @BFCElvis: 'From the readme file: "* FIXED: Gill ATGM had an abnormally high miss rate against targets in ideal conditions" ' However, in the last game (with the V2.03 patch) I still needed 20+ Gills to kill 7 vehicles, because the missile often overshoots. Can anyone confirm or deny? May have just been that one situation. Because it was addressed for the patch I can confirm that it has changed from the last build. I set up a test scenario just to see if there was anything obvious. The Gill teams took out 9 out of 10 tanks in 1 minute. They used a total of 18 rounds. I didn't look closely enough to see if some teams fired at the same tank at the same time or anything like that. I just pressed the red button and looked at the results after a minute. I'll attach my little test scenario but unless you see a pattern of it I'd think their accuracy has been improved. Gill Test.btt 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarendJanNL Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 Very interesting, thanks for your answer! I ran the same test and i had an even better result of 10 out of 10 with all rounds fired en all crew empty after one turn. However, when I counted the missiles beforehand, it were 18 missiles. Am I correct to assume each of the 5 teams had 2 missiles but because of ammo sharing it looked like 18? Still weird how in the other scenario nearly all missiles overshot the targets, I'll have a better look into that. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c3k Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 3 hours ago, BarendJanNL said: Very interesting, thanks for your answer! I ran the same test and i had an even better result of 10 out of 10 with all rounds fired en all crew empty after one turn. However, when I counted the missiles beforehand, it were 18 missiles. Am I correct to assume each of the 5 teams had 2 missiles but because of ammo sharing it looked like 18? Still weird how in the other scenario nearly all missiles overshot the targets, I'll have a better look into that. Do you have a save of the scenario which is giving you Gill issues? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarendJanNL Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 Unfortunately not, it was just a quick test to see if they would work properly. Two factors that may have influenced the effectiveness of the Gill I can imagine are: - High ground vs low ground, with low ground launches resulting only in overshoot, and high ground resulted in succes. - The enemy units were placed directly at the edge of the map, so maybe that could be a factor why the Gills failed? Still have the question of how the Gill would do against the Javelin, as they are from a similar timeframe and use the same guidance for as far as I know. Anyhow, looking forward to @Aquila-SmartWargames ' play of the 'Back on Tracks' campaign to get more insight of how the Gill functions after the patch. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c3k Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 Thanks for the explanation. (And, yes, it was hard not to drop an early reveal about the patch. ) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarendJanNL Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 Lol, I immediately thought of your reaction after I saw the patch was released - The enemy units were placed directly at the edge of the map, so maybe that could be a factor why the Gills failed? Do you btw know if this is true? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GladiTimor Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 (edited) 8 hours ago, BarendJanNL said: Still have the question of how the Gill would do against the Javelin, as they are from a similar timeframe and use the same guidance for as far as I know Not really, Gill uses an optical cable to communicate with the IR sensor on the missile during flight, mostly guiding it manually (man in the loop), Thus giving it NLOS (non-line of sight) capability IE you can fire behind cover and hit a target which might be also behind cover. The disadvantage is that human in the loop means that human error can happen. The Jav on the other end locks the target with the CLU and feeds it to the missile just before launch and then it's completely fire and forget. the disadvantage is that it requires LOS to the target during the targeting phase. also the minimum range of the jav is better (shorter), in CM at least. Overall in CM the jav is better simply due to the fact that the NLOS capability of gill is not modeled, which is fine cause it's an ancillary weapon system for a specific module after all. Edited July 17, 2020 by GladiTimor 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarendJanNL Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 Thank you for the information you provided! This gives me better insight in the capabilities of both the jav and the Gill in RL and CM. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lethaface Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 3 hours ago, GladiTimor said: Not really, Gill uses an optical cable to communicate with the IR sensor on the missile during flight, mostly guiding it manually (man in the loop), Thus giving it NLOS (non-line of sight) capability IE you can fire behind cover and hit a target which might be also behind cover. The disadvantage is that human in the loop means that human error can happen. The Jav on the other end locks the target with the CLU and feeds it to the missile just before launch and then it's completely fire and forget. the disadvantage is that it requires LOS to the target during the targeting phase. also the minimum range of the jav is better (shorter), in CM at least. Overall in CM the jav is better simply due to the fact that the NLOS capability of gill is not modeled, which is fine cause it's an ancillary weapon system for a specific module after all. Afaik the Gill also features a fire and forget mode in RL. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GladiTimor Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 8 hours ago, Lethaface said: Afaik the Gill also features a fire and forget mode in RL. True and I guess that's how it works in CM. The current problem with advance ATGMs in CM is that the pixeltruppen prioritize the reloading animation which means that you can't make them really fire and forget, rather: "shoot, wait 20 second for the gunner to reload and get killed, then order his assistant gunner to buddy-aid his corpse later" 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarendJanNL Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 True that, that was literally the problem I had yesterday in a duel against a Shilka. Miss from a Gill and then just sitting there reloading and waiting to get killed. Would it be possible to clock the time of aiming necessary and then give them a 'target' command while in a for example 15 sec 'pause' command so they will immediately move after firing? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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