Aragorn2002 Posted September 10, 2011 Share Posted September 10, 2011 It happened in one of the battles of Der Letzte Hoffnung-campaign. One of my Panthers came under fire of a Sherman 250 metres or so up the road. Instead of returning fire the Panther did swing it's gun around, without returning fire. The inevitable happened after six or seven hits and my Panther was taken out. It looks like a bug. It sure made a very strange impression. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holien Posted September 10, 2011 Share Posted September 10, 2011 I had a similar gun waggling incident as the tank reversed and was engaged by a Sherman at close range. Same result the loss of a Panther. I chalked it down to luck but maybe one to watch out for and see if we can work out any more incidents.... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YankeeDog Posted September 10, 2011 Share Posted September 10, 2011 And you're sure the gun or optics weren't damaged by one of the early hits? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holien Posted September 10, 2011 Share Posted September 10, 2011 And you're sure the gun or optics weren't damaged by one of the early hits? For me not as the Panther had not been engaged before. Good point as I had one game where a Tiger refused to fire and I could not understand why!!! Then I saw that a previous hit had taken out the gun!!! Darn.... So yes good thing to check especially if you are learning the game. So much to understand... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarquelne Posted September 10, 2011 Share Posted September 10, 2011 after six or seven hits How about the morale status? The crew may have become distracted and/or lost focus. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John1966 Posted September 10, 2011 Share Posted September 10, 2011 How about the morale status? The crew may have become distracted and/or lost focus. You'd have thought 6 or 7 hits from 75mm armour-piercing shells would prevent you from getting too distracted. "Look! A dog with a ham!" 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tread Head Posted September 10, 2011 Share Posted September 10, 2011 How do you tell if something is damaged? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stikkypixie Posted September 10, 2011 Share Posted September 10, 2011 How do you tell if something is damaged? There is a damage tab on the tanks. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarquelne Posted September 10, 2011 Share Posted September 10, 2011 "Look! A dog with a ham!" I'd worry more about arguments concerning the exact armor-piecing abilities of American AT ammo. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sburke Posted September 11, 2011 Share Posted September 11, 2011 I'd worry more about arguments concerning the exact armor-piecing abilities of American AT ammo. Or the air speed velocity of a fully laden (African) swallow or worse....how do you KNOW she's a witch? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LemoN Posted September 11, 2011 Share Posted September 11, 2011 Or the air speed velocity of a fully laden (African) swallow or worse....how do you KNOW she's a witch? Witches burn, so they're made out of wood. We all know that wood swims so we'll just put her in the lake! If she swims then we know she's a witch, if she drowns then we know she wasn't! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aragorn2002 Posted September 11, 2011 Author Share Posted September 11, 2011 I wouldn't be so worried if they had only made a confused impression. At 12 o'clock there was a Sherman and another one (probably at 400 metres) at 11 o'clock. The one at 12 o'clock was the most clear and present danger and should have had priority for the commander and gunner. Instead, the gun really began to move from target to target, without firing a shot, it looked very peculiar. Til then the optics nor the gun of the Panther were damaged. Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't mind in case the Panther did panic, but moving vehicle and gun from target to target, at least a dozen times, simply can't be explained. I'm more than willing to give it the benefit of the doubt, since I love this game, but this just ain't right. They could have reversed, if they really didn't know what to do anymore. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sburke Posted September 11, 2011 Share Posted September 11, 2011 I wouldn't be so worried if they had only made a confused impression. At 12 o'clock there was a Sherman and another one (probably at 400 metres) at 11 o'clock. The one at 12 o'clock was the most clear and present danger and should have had priority for the commander and gunner. Instead, the gun really began to move from target to target, without firing a shot, it looked very peculiar. Til then the optics nor the gun of the Panther were damaged. Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't mind in case the Panther did panic, but moving vehicle and gun from target to target, at least a dozen times, simply can't be explained. I'm more than willing to give it the benefit of the doubt, since I love this game, but this just ain't right. They could have reversed, if they really didn't know what to do anymore. an interesting issue and here is a total supposition of what could be going wrong and if so is somewhat problematic. Assume that the Panther for some reason perceives Sherman A is the high priority threat (maybe it is simply spotted first). It then orients towards it but then spots another Sherman now on it's flank. Now that Sherman has a flank shot so it becomes the more serious threat but in orienting to bring it's frontal armor facing that Sherman, it has now exposed it's flank to Sherman A. Repeat ad nauseum. At some point between two objects the angle of facing will transition to one having a superior position, perhaps that transit point is confusing the AI. That is a simple wild shot and a crude one, but a plausible problem. Do you happen to have a save? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aragorn2002 Posted September 11, 2011 Author Share Posted September 11, 2011 I'm sorry to say I haven't got a save. I was too shocked to think of that unfortunately. Your explanation sounds indeed plausible, sburke, but it remains a serious issue. I don't expect the game to be perfect, well, not yet, but this is definitely something that needs fixing. I could try to simulate the same situation again. I'm pretty sure it will happen again. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bodkin Posted September 11, 2011 Share Posted September 11, 2011 The really annoying thing is when the driver tries to align the hull to the threat constantly throwing out the gunners alignment, I've watched tanks die needlessly because of the continual correction of the gun as the hull spins. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aragorn2002 Posted September 11, 2011 Author Share Posted September 11, 2011 The really annoying thing is when the driver tries to align the hull to the threat constantly throwing out the gunners alignment, I've watched tanks die needlessly because of the continual correction of the gun as the hull spins. Precisely what happened with my Panther. And completly unnecessary too, since the Sherman was only 250 metres away and an easy kill. I must admit I'm also rather worried about the penetration of the front of the Panther, although that can perhaps be accepted at that range. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sburke Posted September 11, 2011 Share Posted September 11, 2011 I'm sorry to say I haven't got a save. I was too shocked to think of that unfortunately. Your explanation sounds indeed plausible, sburke, but it remains a serious issue. I don't expect the game to be perfect, well, not yet, but this is definitely something that needs fixing. I could try to simulate the same situation again. I'm pretty sure it will happen again. That would actually be a very good thing. If the behavior can be duplicated and a copy shown to BFC to work from I am certain this is something they will want to look at as needing to be addressed assuming I am even remotely close to what might be going on. Then again keep an open mind until it has had a chance to be gone through in depth. They may find what is causing it is something even more subtle similar to that issue of the crew member being misaligned and putting his ear to the sights in the Tiger. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted September 12, 2011 Share Posted September 12, 2011 Other things to consider are reciprocal LOS/LOF issues: were there any trees between the two tanks (that you didn't see because of Alt-T)? Happens all the time to me where a tank given a fire order, or placed in a position where it can't possibly fail to spot the target gets into a 'Rotating-Elevating-Aiming-Firing (though it doesn't actually fire) loop and it's usually because of some waving foliage that I had turned off when I picked the firing spot. And such difficulties are often not reciprocal. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Canadian Cat Posted September 12, 2011 Share Posted September 12, 2011 The really annoying thing is when the driver tries to align the hull to the threat constantly throwing out the gunners alignment, I've watched tanks die needlessly because of the continual correction of the gun as the hull spins. Oh I hate that - those crews need some remedial sessions. I have not lost a tank that way. Usually its when I am trying to get the main gun to lay down some covering fire along a tree line or whatever. I set way points and pauses only to find that the driver turns to line up with the first way point while the gunner tries to hit the first target. Invariably the first target does not get hit... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Canadian Cat Posted September 12, 2011 Share Posted September 12, 2011 It happened in one of the battles of Der Letzte Hoffnung-campaign. One of my Panthers came under fire of a Sherman 250 metres or so up the road. Instead of returning fire the Panther did swing it's gun around, without returning fire. The inevitable happened after six or seven hits and my Panther was taken out. It looks like a bug. It sure made a very strange impression. I have been on the other end of this. Two of my Shermans surprised a Panther at close range (came out of the woods). The Shermans fired fast and furious and the Panther just took hit after hit until the crew bailed in a panic. Thing is just at that moment a second Panther moved up next to the first and calmly and coldly took out one Sherman and then seconds later the other. I found out later from my opponent that the crew were in a panic almost right from the start and when the first Panther lost its gun the crew bailed. Since the second Panther beat off the Shermans he was able to sort out the crew and get them back in it so he at least had the use of the MGs back. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LJFHutch Posted September 16, 2011 Share Posted September 16, 2011 I've had similar issues, one recent one: A marder refused to fire on the sherman less than 50m away. I kept moving him back and forth and he just kept on turning slowly to the right, I've got no idea what he was trying to achieve but it got everyone killed. This went on for about a minute, perhaps more. He had a clear LOS the entire time but continually rotated on the spot to the right (no enemy contacts there). I moved him closer and closer and stopped probably 5 times without luck, eventually he stopped and turned and was taken out. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slysniper Posted September 16, 2011 Share Posted September 16, 2011 some files sent to battlefront would be helpful. I have seen the same behavior a few times, but brushed it off. In Wego is where it is a killer to your unit. IN RT I solved it by placing a face command on the armor, that will override the AI for a little bit and stop the tank from rotating and then the gunner has to do his job without the unit turning. But not sure that is a fix always, but I have seen better results by making sure to give the face command. It also helps to positioning your tanks at a 10 or 2 oclock position to enemy guns to get the most out of that defensive armor. But the AI will soon take over and try to place you straight on to the enemy. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aragorn2002 Posted September 16, 2011 Author Share Posted September 16, 2011 The situation isn't as easy to duplicate as I expected. But I remember settering the target arc for the confused Panther. Even that didn't help. It concentrated for a moment on the Sherman in the target arc, missed and began to swing it's gun around again. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BadgerDog Posted September 16, 2011 Share Posted September 16, 2011 The really annoying thing is when the driver tries to align the hull to the threat constantly throwing out the gunners alignment, I've watched tanks die needlessly because of the continual correction of the gun as the hull spins. SOP on Sherman M4 for the driver was ... ..upon hearing a gunnery command over the "B" set (internal comms) head sets such as AP "Shot Action" or HE "Shell Action", indicating master weapon engagement is imminent, the driver is to stop any vehicle movement and DO NOTHING, unless CC issues an additional driver's command. Regards, Doug 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slysniper Posted September 17, 2011 Share Posted September 17, 2011 The situation isn't as easy to duplicate as I expected. But I remember settering the target arc for the confused Panther. Even that didn't help. It concentrated for a moment on the Sherman in the target arc, missed and began to swing it's gun around again. I had tried the same thing, did not work, thus the reason for the face command. For some reason that does a better job of freezing the tank in place for a while, thus giving the gunner time to aim and fire. It is not a perfect answer and works good in RT but likely not much help in WEGO 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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