360° target arc

[Wego McPbem]

How do you do this? I'm sure I remember reading that you could but I can't seem to figure it out. Last night I had a tank safely go round the back of my bazooka teams arc in a game, would really have come in handy then.

[YankeeDog]

Hold down the Shift key as you set a Cover Arc command.

[Wego McPbem]

Excellent, thank you very much.

[Vanir Ausf B]

I sooo wish we had a 180° shortcut. I use that far more often than 360°.

[normannobrot]

how come when you set a "arc" it resets it self few miniuites later...beats the point of it,

[GreenAsJade]

Are your guys in C&C? I've had guys out of C&C cancel their arcs when under pressure. Seems realistic to me.

[Vinnart]

I sooo wish we had a 180° shortcut. I use that far more often than 360°.

+ 1. I have recommended the adition of new ROTATE command that looks like the FACE line, but a different color. This in essence is a max 180 degree arc with no restricitions of regular arcs, and SO much LESS overpowering graphicly than those neon yellow high beams. Also, this is more stream lined as you do not have to do two clicks to draw arcs. Often when I create arcs it is just so I want to point the turret in a direction without worring if the arc is not big enough ignoring threats outside the arc. Arcs have their place for more specific direction, and depth mainly in ambushes. This would be just a general max 180 degre arc.

[LJFHutch]

Yeah you'd think C2 would have an effect.

[normannobrot]

what do you guys mean by C&C?? close combat i.e recieving small arms fire??

[guachi]

C&C C2 = Command and Control.

[Lt Bull]

Related to the cover arc command....I have found what might be some bug/feature (can never be sure) whereby there seems to be some conflict between the Covered Arc and Facing commands. I can't seem to use the Facing command if the uni has a Covered Arc command already. If I give a Covered Arc command to a unit that already has a Facing command the Facing command is deleted.

Whaddup?

[ChrisND]

Related to the cover arc command....I have found what might be some bug/feature (can never be sure) whereby there seems to be some conflict between the Covered Arc and Facing commands. I can't seem to use the Facing command if the uni has a Covered Arc command already. If I give a Covered Arc command to a unit that already has a Facing command the Facing command is deleted.

Whaddup?

Not a bug, a limitation. A unit can only be given one command from each tab at a time. So, only one Combat command at a time.

[Lt Bull]

Not a bug, a limitation. A unit can only be given one command from each tab at a time. So, only one Combat command at a time.

!!!?? That really sux! Many times I have had units that have covered arcs "retreat" via TacAI as a result of heavy enemy fire. When they recover, they are more than likely facing AWAY from the enemy .

I now want to: a) make them face the right way, maintain the covered arc/give them a new covered arc.

I guess there are also case were you have a unit facing a direction with a covered arc and now you want to change both.

So I can't do this in one turn (playing WEGO)?

Do I have to first:

1) delete any Covered Arc command and give them a Facing order to face the enemy and run the risk during the next minute of battle replay of them engage whatever enemy they happen to see

2) apply any covered arc command to them (if they survived the previous minute of action) the next command phase?

[womble]

!!!?? That really sux! Many times I have had units that have covered arcs "retreat" via TacAI as a result of heavy enemy fire. When they recover, they are more than likely facing AWAY from the enemy .

I now want to: a) make them face the right way, maintain the covered arc/give them a new covered arc.

I guess there are also case were you have a unit facing a direction with a covered arc and now you want to change both.

So I can't do this in one turn (playing WEGO)?

Do I have to first:

1) delete any Covered Arc command and give them a Facing order to face the enemy and run the risk during the next minute of battle replay of them engage whatever enemy they happen to see

2) apply any covered arc command to them (if they survived the previous minute of action) the next command phase?

Just give them the new covered arc, surely, and they should turn their facing to match? I just tested it, and it works. Obviously, you can't give them a 360 arc and expect them to know which way to face, so for the 'face the enemy, dammit, but don't fire til you see the whites of their eyes' minute you have to use a more constrained arc.

[Lt Bull]

I see now. Covered Arc seems to "replace"/disable the Facing command when it is used. The Facing command is NOT available to units using the Covered Arc command. Units will automatically face the direction midway between the Covered Arc created, if it is NOT a 360 deg Covered Arc.

However you are kinda screwed when using the 360deg Covered Arc. You are stuck with the unit facing the direction it just happened to be facing at the time you give it the 360deg Covered Arc. Units that move with the 360deg Covered Arc will end up facing the direction they last moved in. A player can not control it any other way.

Obviously, you can't give them a 360 arc and expect them to know which way to face

Exactly and that is why it makes no sense to DISABLE the Facing command when the 360deg Covered Arc is used. Why must a unit now relinquish it's Facing control?

So again, you can not, in the same turn, get a unit to:

a) face a particular direction (using the Facing command to rotate in place)

and

issue a 360 deg Covered Arc command

This seems like a very unnecessary limitation. And the only way to try and get around this is to also issue a Move command to the unit using two waypoints. The first in the opposite direction you want the unit to face and the second in the direction you want it to face. Do we really want to be issuing Move commands just to get a unit to face the direction you want?

Would be good if this limitation was fixed.

[womble]

So again, you can not, in the same turn, get a unit to:

a) face a particular direction (using the Facing command to rotate in place)

and

issue a 360 deg Covered Arc command

Would be good if this limitation was fixed.

Is it really that big a deal that you have to spend a turn with a cover arc of less than 360?

I think you'll need to wait til CMx3 to see this change. It seems to be at the root of the way orders to units are handled. You could make 'Face' a 'Move family' command, I suppose, but then you wouldn't be able to Face and then move away in the same WeGo turn. You could make Face a 'Special' command, perhaps, but then you wouldn't be able to Face-and-Deploy' at your heavy weapon's destination. Making it an Admin command would be a bit odd, I think, and those don't associate with waypoints anyway, so it might not be a solution.

[Blackcat]

"Would be good if this limitation was fixed."

Yes it would, but how often does this situation occur? How many times do you actually need a 360 arc of fire? of those how many times does not being able to order a face command in the same turn cause a problem?

Given that a 360 degree arc of fire would actually mean on the ground having a least one member of the unit scanning for each arc within the circle, I am not sure that the two orders are actually compatible. I suppose with an HMG unit you could say that you want the MG to face in one direction whilst the rest of the team keep watch in the others but that is to mistake the role of the team and to really get down to obscure and rare situations.

[womble]

Given that a 360 degree arc of fire would actually mean on the ground having a least one member of the unit scanning for each arc within the circle...

While I geneally concur, I'm not sure this part is true. I've got a company static at the moment, with 360 arcs, and all the troops are pointing in roughly the last direction they moved. Remember, Cover Arcs are restrictions to fire, and I don't think it's been conclusively demonstrated that they have any beneficial effect on spotting. I'd sort of expect (perhaps unrealistically, I admit) the individual troops to go into 'all round defense' graphically, if a 360 arc meant that's what they were doing.

Edit: quoted part edited for clarity

[Blackcat]

"Cover Arcs ... and I don't think it's been conclusively demonstrated that they have any beneficial effect on spotting."

Womble,

That is news to me. I had taken it as true that cover arcs increase the chance of seeing an enemy within the arc and, correspondingly, lower the chance of spotting one outside. Aside from the restrictions of shooting when trying to keep units concealed, I always assumed that the purpose of a covered arc was to focus a unit's attention (witness the "old sweats" posting about setting a covered arc before ordering a shoot and scoot).

However, now that you force me to think of it, I can't point to an authoritative resource that supports my point of view and it does make a nonsense of the new fangled 360 degree arcs. Can any one help out here?

[Lt Bull]

"Would be good if this limitation was fixed."

Yes it would, but how often does this situation occur? How many times do you actually need a 360 arc of fire? of those how many times does not being able to order a face command in the same turn cause a problem?

The thing is that a standard <+180 deg Covered Arc and a 360deg Covered Arc shroud really be treated as separate things. One is direction/facing orientated, the other is really a way of restricting the range at which a unit can engage ANY unit from any direction (well that's how I was thinking about it).

I thought it was obvious that when using a 360 deg Covered Arc, all you really are setting is the "engagement range" of a unit, without affecting the unit facing or it's spotting capabilities. I expected the unit to spot like a normal unit would with the default standard field of vision it has when there is not been assigned any Covered Arc command.

I never really considered in the first instance that a 360deg Covered Arc would make a units spotting ability in every direction equal (by way of having all eyes within the unit scan all 360deg equally as opposed to just the current unit facing). I just saw it as a way to limit the unit engagement range.

But now I realise that you guys also were also considering the spotting aspect.

I would be happier if any facing restrictions could be divorced from the 360deg Covered Arc so it could at least be used as a rough and ready engagement range controller.

[Vinnart]

The more I think about it the more it sounds that FACE should be a MOVE command, since you FACE to get the the tank to rotate its chasy. Rotating is moving. When FACEing infantry they MOVE to line up a certain way. Face is something that could be added perhaps like in other games where you move, and then hold the mouse button showing a directional arrow that rotates while mouse button is held. This way the unit moves to location and automaticly rotates to wanted direction as end of the move. This something I have seen in many RTS games. Not sure about working into comabat mission though.

If a ROTATE/LOOK (more general rotate gun in that direction, or look to the left,/right) command were added to the combat orders along with arcs (more specific, limited depth) the graphic would look like clock hands. I loath issuing arc orders becuase they kill the eye candy when all I want is a max 180 degree in a specific direction.

Right now I am using a 360 arc becuase I did not want to effect a facing. Those are the worst looking of all. The thing that surprises me the most about the arc graphic is that BF usually goes with the more subtle look in things, but went overboard on the current arc graphic. I would much rather look at ashort line piontin in a direction. Oh how I mis those orange and blue arc lines. Hey, I'll take my short ROTATE command line orange please for traditions sake.

[hoolaman]

I don't mind FACE being a combat command but I do wish for a ROTATE move command. It would allow you to face the hull one way and the turret another, or with infantry, to deploy the teams in a squad one way then have the men turn another way.

[womble]

The more I think about it the more it sounds that FACE should be a MOVE command...Not sure about working into comabat mission though.

Quite, because of the way movement orders are restricted to one per action point. If you wanted a unit to Face, it'd have to be the last movement order that turn, since it would need to be actively cancelled with backspace.

I loath issuing arc orders becuase they kill the eye candy...

Yeah, they're ugly as sin. Make spotting what unit you've got selected in a crowd difficult too.

[Lanzfeld]

Three things.

1. We NEED instant 180 degree arcs. Too clunky the way it is now. (how about instant 120 degrees?).

2. If you cant change the color of the arcs PLEASE make them toggle on and off via keypress.

3. Arcs make a unit shoot at targets farther away than they would without arcs. For example, a MG team will take more shots at a target 800 meters away if the target is in their arc. A MG team without an arc will not shoot as much at a target 800 meters away, if it shoots at all. I wish this was in the manual.

[Blackcat]

I am not sure about face being a move command. I move to a point and then set the unit to face the way I want, do something and then move on. I am not sure, given the current limitations, that having face as a move command would allow me to do what I can now, which work pretty well as far as I am concerned.

Mr. Hoolman mentioned wanting the ability to have the hull face one way and the turret another. Isn't this already possible - I seem to manage it by using covered arc, the tank continues to face the way it was going but the turret turns to face the designated arc (though I think this lowers the spotting ability as fewer eyes are looking in each direction, not sure what impact this actually has though).