Contact markers: distinguish AFV from INF

[GreenAsJade]

We all know that sound contact representation is a tough one. I know the reasons why mis-ID can't be done etc.

However, could we please have different icons for AFV vs INF contact? This might just lessen ever so slightly the nasty experience at the moment of tanks coming out of the blue from no-where.

I think that this problem is also contributed to by the fact (according to the manual) that you don't get sound contacts unless the unit is spotted, or something like that? What is the deal about that?

GaJ

[Peregrine]

It was like that in CMSF. Unclear what Battlefront's opinion but it comes up a lot.

Absolutely the worst thing about playing in realtime. You focus on a spot then pan back and notice a new contact. No idea if it's a sniper or a tiger.

[GreenAsJade]

Gee, how would I have guessed it was like that in CMSF? There was me thinking that this was some cruel joke they added to CMBN...

GaJ

[Placebo]

I thought it was a really good feature of CM1 that mis-identifications could happen. That Tiger turning out to be just a PzIV etc. Can this happen in CM2?

A basic inf or AFV ident would also be a great improvement.

[Other Means]

It's been asked for many times. I think it's on THE LIST.

I think that this problem is also contributed to by the fact (according to the manual) that you don't get sound contacts unless the unit is spotted, or something like that? What is the deal about that?

That's not a sound contact then mate

You get them without spotting.

[GreenAsJade]

You would think so.

But the manual says, and I quote:

"- You cannot hear unspotted enemies"

What does that mean??

GaJ

(Placebo: they can't do mis-ID, because the whole game engine is designed around the fact that the 3D graphical model is the actual model. So if they display a Tiger, then incoming rounds will hit it as if it is a Tiger. Then we'd all be complaining "hey, that .22 round bounced at 45 degrees off the Tiger's mantle, that can't be right!?" )

[Sgt Joch]

You would think so.

But the manual says, and I quote:

"- You cannot hear unspotted enemies"

What does that mean??

GaJ

That means that if an enemy unit is unspotted, you will not hear the sounds coming from that unit.

That was done somewhere along the way in CMSF to prevent the gamey issue where you could roam over the map with the camera and hear the voices of unspotted units, letting you know where they were. (not that I ever did that, of course ).

For the same reason, you do not see/hear the muzzle flash/firing sounds of unspotted units.

[Fetchez la Vache]

Why do we have to see (?) contact icons for dead/wounded enemy? At least that what it looks like to me from the demo, please correct me if I am wrong. And surrendering soldiers possibly as well I think? After pounding the village in Closing the Gap I rushed in only to find I had been apparently providing suppression onto a bunch of dead and wounded soldiers. Hopefully no-one will be bringing war crimes charges against me.

To be honest I only want to see contact icons for troops actually moving about and generally of an "alive" appearance*.

* obviously this doesn't strictly apply to nazi zombies in-game

[Sgt Joch]

Re: sound contacts.

There seems to be some confusion. Sound contacts are IN the game, you just don't get a specific sound contact marker as in CMx1.

The player can't hear unspotted enemies, as explained above, but your pixeltruppens do.

A pixelgrunt can spot an enemy in one of three ways: he hears it, he sees it, some other grunt tells him it's there.

If you see a "?" icon pop up and you have no clue where it comes from, it is probably a sound contact spotted by one or your pixelgrunts.

[GreenAsJade]

Riiight now I understand that comment in the manual ... makes fine sense.

So can we have different icons for AFV and INF contacts?

GaJ

[Sgt Joch]

So can we have different icons for AFV and INF contacts?

GaJ

GaJ,

the way it works now is basically:

1. Hint -> Question Mark Icon - no details at all

2. Visual -> Generic Infantry Icon - you see what you see, you get no extra info

3. Confirmed -> Correct Icon - you still see what you see, but you now know exactly what it is.

This is a change in CMBN from CMSF because a lot of players felt CMSF gave the player spotting info which was too precise.

In CMBN (and I believe this is only in Iron/Elite), when you first spot the AFV but you are not sure what it is, you get the generic infantry Icon. When you get enough info to ID it as a tank, you get the correct AFV icon.

In Warrior and below, I believe it works as you want it to work. ( I only play iron).

This was worked on a lot to improve FOW and I personally feel it is an improvement over how it worked in CMSF. Spend some time with the new system and if in a few weeks you still have issues, come back and we can discuss them.

[Sgt Joch]

Why do we have to see (?) contact icons for dead/wounded enemy? At least that what it looks like to me from the demo, please correct me if I am wrong. And surrendering soldiers possibly as well I think? After pounding the village in Closing the Gap I rushed in only to find I had been apparently providing suppression onto a bunch of dead and wounded soldiers. Hopefully no-one will be bringing war crimes charges against me.

To be honest I only want to see contact icons for troops actually moving about and generally of an "alive" appearance*.

* obviously this doesn't strictly apply to nazi zombies in-game

Fog of War, old man.

Your troops don't know if the enemy troops are all dead or just hiding.

When you lose contact, the troop icon is replaced by a "?" icon showing its last known position. If your troops receive no further visual/sound/intel info (i.e. theyre all dead), the "?" icon will gradually fade away over a few turns.

[Blackcat]

Why do we have to see (?) contact icons for dead/wounded enemy? At least that what it looks like to me from the demo, please correct me if I am wrong. And surrendering soldiers possibly as well I think? After pounding the village in Closing the Gap I rushed in only to find I had been apparently providing suppression onto a bunch of dead and wounded soldiers. Hopefully no-one will be bringing war crimes charges against me.

To be honest I only want to see contact icons for troops actually moving about and generally of an "alive" appearance*.

* obviously this doesn't strictly apply to nazi zombies in-game

What contact markers you see at anyone time is a function of the unit you have selected, chnage the unt and the markers also change.

So, for example, early on in the game a unit may be made aware of (by the chain of command) an unknown contact at point A and so when the unit is selected you will see a ? icon at point A. Later in the game another unit may find and eliminate that contact, but unless the original unit is made aware of the fact there will always be the ? icon shown when the original unit is selected.

For an up to date "consensus" view make sure you have no unit selected. Its relative spotting, innit.

[akd]

GaJ,

the way it works now is basically:

1. Hint -> Question Mark Icon - no details at all

2. Visual -> Generic Infantry Icon - you see what you see, you get no extra info

3. Confirmed -> Correct Icon - you still see what you see, but you now know exactly what it is.

Not quite Joch.

On "Warrior" and below:

1. generic ? - unknown or suspected contact/sound contact

2. Correct icon - positively ID'd contact

Elite and Iron:

1. generic ? - unknown or suspected contact/sound contact

2. Generic infantry icon - positively ID'd contact of non-vehicle

or

2. Correct vehicle icon - positively ID'd contact of vehicle

[aka_tom_w]

akd is correct, you can't really talk about this in any meaningful way unless you start by stating what Fog of War level you are referring to.

These not generic "AI Difficulty levels" as some have incorrectly assumed.

They are Different levels of Fog Of War (or spotting and communication and timing of recovery) that become more realistic the higher you go.

akd is correct in his post

[skelley]

I think GreenAsJade is saying... Is there a way of showing that a spotted contact of a tank (that then moves out of contact and becomes just a question mark), is still an AFV contact. If a contact happens while you are on another side of the map and by the time you notice it, it is just a question mark. Somebody saw it and knows that this is a tank but there is no way you will know it unless the tank comes into view while you are focused in that area.

Maybe have out of contact icons be a little more specific. ie. have an infantry icon with a ?. or an AFV icon with a question mark.

[Sgt Joch]

I rechecked and Akd is correct, it is only non-vehicle units that get the generic infantry icon in Iron (there were so many changes to the game that I have trouble keeping everything straight ).

However it leaves me confused as to exactly what GaJ is asking for?

[Baneman]

I think what GAJ is saying is - basically if you get a "?" symbol for a Sound-Contact, you should know if it's an AFV or infantry - the sounds should be readily distinguished by your troops.

[Mikkey]

Sgt Joch, thanks for explanation of sound contact!

[bbaker]

I think GreenAsJade is saying... Is there a way of showing that a spotted contact of a tank (that then moves out of contact and becomes just a question mark), is still an AFV contact. If a contact happens while you are on another side of the map and by the time you notice it, it is just a question mark. Somebody saw it and knows that this is a tank but there is no way you will know it unless the tank comes into view while you are focused in that area.

Maybe have out of contact icons be a little more specific. ie. have an infantry icon with a ?. or an AFV icon with a question mark.

+1. I'd suggest the same thing for AT guns, which in my (limited) experience have a habit of popping in and out of view. If you're looking at the position at the right time you can see that, yep, that's a pak-50! and you can watch the pixeltruppen play their loading and firing animations (awesome!) but then five seconds later it's back to being a generic "?"

I get that the game models relative spotting and FOW. It's unclear to me how far that should extend from the pixeltruppen to the player. If I have the ability to watch the map from any spot (and, so theoretically, can manually check every "?" every turn to see which decloaks as a gun) it seems odd that the game would hide this information from me, the player.

[lookeylou]

That means that if an enemy unit is unspotted, you will not hear the sounds coming from that unit.

That was done somewhere along the way in CMSF to prevent the gamey issue where you could roam over the map with the camera and hear the voices of unspotted units, letting you know where they were.

Can it just be coded to be relative to your clicked units. spotting is handled this way.