Couple new CMBN videos cropping up....

[Peter Cairns]

Scottie,

I am not saying they are not there but I wouldn't expect them in a map Like those ones as the AAR shows.

A dozen or so buildings surrounded by woods and fields isn't a town in is hardly even a village.

If I was doing a map like that I might have one metalled road and maybe cobbled through the middle of the town and dirt tracks elsewhere.

I'd prefer cobbles to tar and if I did have pavements it would be restricted to the best road in the centre of the village and then maybe only random parts of it.

Peter.

[DaveyJJ]

A dozen or so buildings surrounded by woods and fields isn't a town in is hardly even a village.

If I recall my urban geography courses from way back in my double major (1985-1989), a hamlet is defined simply a small village, without a church, and usually only with a single road running through it (no side streets connecting to the main road). No market, and usually at about 14-16 houses. A village has a church, and towns have markets. At least that's how I remember it, although I seem to recall one course where population also defined what one called a settlement, but that might have been North American specific. I've done some quick research for rural French hamlet pics from the 1930s and 40s and only a handful of them had cobbled roads ... mostly just well-packed dirt(?) tracks.

[TheVulture]

I was more referring to the explosion happening behind houses with stonewalls "magically" toppling over, even if they're protected from the blast.

That quirk has been around for a long time. My first (or second) CMSF PBEM featured a daft version of it, back in the day before the BMP ammo bug was fixed. For those not in the know, for some reasons BMPs would get extra ammo added every few turns. For a burning BMP, this ammo still arrived and quickly cooked off, with the result that the burning BMP would give out a big explosion every 2-3 turns.

This PBEM featured a BMP set on fire on a hillside fairly early on. It dutifully blew up every now and then, and the craters it made in the process meant that the vehicle slowly moved abuot 30 meters down a hill, demolished the wall of a building, and ended up almost inside the building. Meanwhile those small stone walls all over the map were getting destroyed. Each explosion would take out an extra 8 meter section of low wall along each stretch of wall, not matter where on the map the walls were or what was in between the explosion and the wall. Likewise with trees; trees over a hundred meters away were getting their leaves shredded off.

It does seem as though explosion damage to low walls is unaffected by distance. Maybe it only happens when the original wall passed through the damage zone, and something in the came code recognises this and propogates the damage along the wall until it finds the next undamaged section and rubbles it.

But is has been around in CMSF for years, so I doubt it is going to go away any time soon.

[Calibration]

Yeah, grouping seemed too tight to me too.

Not only in the fire pattern grouping but also the accuracy with which that pattern is achieved.

In 1944 a typical battleship main gun salvo pattern was about ~2% of range. e.g. at 10,000 yards you would expect the shells to land within 200 yards of each other (and about what you see in CMx1). So, it did indeed appear a bit tight. Pretty though....

[scottie]

Scottie,

I am not saying they are not there but I wouldn't expect them in a map Like those ones as the AAR shows. A dozen or so buildings surrounded by woods and fields isn't a town in is hardly even a village.

Peter.

Hi Peter , yip that's a fair point

All the best

[dieseltaylor]

Agree about spread. Way too tight. Especially as I expect the firing to be further than 6 miles more often than not. However as I do not know for sure ...any naval grogs here with info on Normandy monitor and battleship actions

I did check the RoF also

[dieseltaylor]

If you watch the first Tati film I think that is a good indicator of what a village looked like , and the road types. Its also rather good

Jour de fête (aka Festival Day, The Big Day) (1949) is the title of a film comedy by the French director Jacques Tati. Jour de fête tells the story of an inept and easily-distracted French mailman who frequently interrupts his duties to converse with the local inhabitants, as well as inspect the traveling fair that has come to his small community. Influenced by too much wine and a newsreel account of rapid transportation methods used by the United States postal system, he goes to hilarious lengths to speed the delivery of mail while aboard his bicycle. In Jour de fête, several characteristics of Tati's work appear for the first time in a full-length film. The film is largely a visual comedy, though dialogue is still used to tell part of the story, at one point using a background character as a narrator. Sound effects are a key element of the film, as Tati makes imaginative use of voices and other background noises to provide humorous effect. The film introduces what would be a key theme in Tati films, the over-reliance of Western society on technology to solve its (perceived) problems.

The movie was originally filmed in both black-and-white and Thomson-color, an early and untried color film process. In using both formats, Tati feared that Thomson-color might not be practicable, a concern that proved well-founded after the Thomson firm went bankrupt before the film could be processed. Tati then released the black and white version (which features occasional short bursts of colour, hand-coloured by Tati directly onto the frames). In 1995, new technology allowed the restoration of the color copy, which was finished and released by Tati's daughter Sophie Tatischeff and cinematographer François Ede.

The film was shot largely in the town of Sainte-Sévère-sur-Indre and the surrounding region; many of the locals played the roles of extras

[Dingchavez]

There are not much cobbled roads in Normandy, it is simply not "cultural" and would hardly be used to build squares, but hey, tihs is just a game, and seing cobbled roads puzzles me less than seing "gender" mistakes made to almos every mission where French location names are created.

Example : La moustache (feminine) becoming LE moustache (wroooong).

THIS is really annoying, particularly in the final release, so please, if you have a doubt, mail me !

[Broadsword56]

Dingchavez,

I didn't know that cobblestones are rare in Norman towns -- can you share some more tips for us about features that would make our farms, hamlets, towns, and cities look more "comme il faut?"

[MikeyD]

There are not much cobbled roads in Normandy

Emphasis on the word 'are'. The world was not yet entirely covered in asphalt sixty seven years ago. Also, remember the editor's meant to cover the whole title including Paris.

I recall that old movie "The Boston Strangler" had a scene shot on the very street where I lived, the strangler guy running down a treeless cobblestone street. It was barely recognizable from the paved tree-lined street I was living on just eleven years later.

[jeffsmith]

SNIP

I recall that old movie "The Boston Strangler" had a scene shot on the very street where I lived, the strangler guy running down a treeless cobblestone street. It was barely recognizable from the paved tree-lined street I was living on just eleven years later.

Ahh the Joys of Mayor Kevin White's "Urban Renewal" of Boston

[Calibration]

Agree about spread. Way too tight. Especially as I expect the firing to be further than 6 miles more often than not. However as I do not know for sure ...any naval grogs here with info on Normandy monitor and battleship actions

I did check the RoF also

This is a summary of the actions of HMS Ramilllies which was typical...

Her next action of note was as a fire support vessel for the Normandy landings on the 06th June 1944, here her first task was the 6” gun battery at Benneville, in this engagement she knocked out all six guns, In an ironic moment she had had all but eight of her secondary 6” guns removed, designed to repulse torpedo boat attacks which were judged no longer a risk she fired on two attacking German destroyers which fired five torpedoes at her, thankfully all missed. On the evening of the 06th June she returned to Portsmouth to restock her ammunition, she returned on the 08th and destroyed another gun battery Throughout June Ramillies provide fire support to troops ashore , usually radio directed, she hit concentration of enemy armour, troop concentrations and another attack by German torpedo boats On the 10th June she shelled a railway junction at Caen at her maximum gun range, on the 11th June she destroyed a large number of enemy tanks massing to counter-attack then returned to shelling Caen railway junction. On the 15th June she was shelled by a mobile artillery battery which hit her twice injuring one of her crew, she simply moved out of range and carried on with her many bombardment tasks during which she fired just over 1000 rounds of 15” – the highest number of heavy shells fired by an RN ship in a single duty. August 1944 saw her providing fire support to the allied landings in southern France, this time the German gun batteries at the port of Toulon were her target.

[RogCBrand]

carried on with her many bombardment tasks during which she fired just over 1000 rounds of 15” – the highest number of heavy shells fired by an RN ship in a single duty.

Imagine the aching backs of the men that had to load those 1000+ rounds over a few days!

[LongLeftFlank]

Further musings on the topic of airstrikes, map detail, bangs and immersion....

I don't own or play Arma2 (or any video game other than CM), and I know BFC doesn't encourage cross-comparisons here on the forum. But I am just riveted by some of the player videos on the web. The level of photorealism you can create with a gazillion dollar budget and an army of offshore programmers is quite astonishing. I really had no idea how far the art had advanced (at least for those with a decent rig or an XBox).

Check

for example (mute the sound if you aren't into Eurotrash technopop) -- the first 1:15 is pure Hog worship, but fast forward to the air strike and you'll see what I mean.

On the other hand, for all that amazing chrome, this same map with the airstrip and the village seems to feature in about half the videos I saw. Looks like Serbian paramilitaries are invading Vermont or sumfink. And while the explosions do have more oily grit, debris and flames in them, they still aren't convincing. Finally, I am completed underwhelmed by the limited number of AI troop animations and reactions.

EDIT: OK, I guess I have to take back the "

" part...

[JonS]

Imagine the aching backs of the men that had to load those 1000+ rounds over a few days!

8 x 15-in, so 'only' 125 rounds per gun crew. Spread over ~30-40 days is approx 3-4 rnds per gun per day.

[RogCBrand]

8 x 15-in, so 'only' 125 rounds per gun crew. Spread over ~30-40 days is approx 3-4 rnds per gun per day.

I guess that's better than carrying a heavy pack across France through all types of weather and combat. But I'm sure, at least the busiest days of firing, would have been hard work.

[RogCBrand]

And while the explosions do have more oily grit, debris and flames in them, they still aren't convincing.

That's kind of a problem- the more realistic computer graphics become, the more out of place the slightest irregularity is. The nice thing with CM1 was that it brought a lot of realism, yet not even attempting photo-realism, so you didn't feel the need for things to be perfect.

[JonS]

I guess that's better than carrying a heavy pack across France through all types of weather and combat. But I'm sure, at least the busiest days of firing, would have been hard work.

Oh yes. Totally agree

[gunnergoz]

(snip)

Fighter bombers can kill but the shock effect is much more important.

Its a old misbelieve that the allied fighter bombers killed the german tanks by the dozens. But the pure fear of airstrikes and the the terror unleashed by them on ground troops was enough to reduce their combat power temporarily.

Tell that to the hundreds of German AFV's and vehicles that were destroyed by Tac Air during the Breakout and in the Falaise Gap. That was the original "highway of death." There was good reason for the Germans to be scared witless by the "Jabos;" if caught in the open, they stood an excellent chance of being strafed, rocketed or bombed to smithereens.

Just one citation: http://www.aero-web.org/history/wwii/d-day/15.htm

[Magpie_Oz]

Tell that to the hundreds of German AFV's and vehicles that were destroyed by Tac Air during the Breakout and in the Falaise Gap. That was the original "highway of death." There was good reason for the Germans to be scared witless by the "Jabos;" if caught in the open, they stood an excellent chance of being strafed, rocketed or bombed to smithereens.

Just one citation: http://www.aero-web.org/history/wwii/d-day/15.htm

hmmmmm

"One pilot, with empty gun chambers and bomb shackles, dropped his belly tank on 12 trucks and left them all in flames."

Yeh riiiiight

It has been discussed at length but in a nutshell less than 3% of German Tanks were taken out but Aircraft and their claims were somewhat over stated, as you would expect they see a big explosion and put it down as a kill without being able to confirm.

By far the biggest effect was on the logistics train.

[JonS]

Tell that to the hundreds of German AFV's and vehicles that were destroyed by Tac Air during the Breakout and in the Falaise Gap. That was the original "highway of death." There was good reason for the Germans to be scared witless by the "Jabos;" if caught in the open, they stood an excellent chance of being strafed, rocketed or bombed to smithereens.

Good story.

Shame it never happened.

See: "Airpower at the battlefront" by Gooderson. The whole book is very good, but especially relevant here are pages 117-119.

[gunnergoz]

Good story.

Shame it never happened.

See: "Airpower at the battlefront" by Gooderson. The whole book is very good, but especially relevant here are pages 117-119.

You're saying that the destruction of German forces by Tac Air in the Falaise Gap never happened? You have one book to present in refutation? And no quotes? I don't have the book, sorry. And its not going to counter the many books I've read on the subject and the 5-10 supporting articles I found on the web in just a couple of minutes. You'll have to try better than that to convince me that hundreds of published books and articles about the subject since WW2 are all wrong.

[JonS]

lol. Ok. You can read most of the book on Amazon using the "Look inside" function.

PROTIP: pilot claims are worthless.

[Battlefront.com]

The exaggerated claims of destruction of German combat vehicles by USAAF had a lot to do with politics within the armed forces. It's a rivalry that's still around today, in fact. In fact, now with the super accurate weapons available it's in some ways worse. It was cited as justification for massively shortchanging the ground forces originally intended to invade Iraq in 2003. And we all know how well that turned out even with the reluctantly increased ground presence.

For sure the Allied Tac Air had a huge impact in Europe, but it was kinda like a machinegun... it was an area denial/suppression weapon more than it was killing weapon. The Germans had to seriously curtail strategic, operational, and even tactical moves whenever it was bright and sunny out. Moving at night was an easy way around the threat from above, but that came at a great cost to them.

Steve

[Battlefront.com]

PROTIP: pilot claims are worthless.

Oh my, understatement of the week and we're only 1 hour into it on my side of the world

Steve