scottie Posted May 3, 2011 Share Posted May 3, 2011 Just realised that when using the ASSAULT command in CMSF twice (ie two legs) the teams bunny hop i.e team one from home to leg 1 then stops and covers while team two gets to leg 1 , then team one jumps to leg two etc .... how cool is that .... tentative link to CMBN i know. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil stanbridge Posted May 3, 2011 Share Posted May 3, 2011 I told you you'd like SF given half a chance 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wengart Posted May 3, 2011 Share Posted May 3, 2011 However splitting teams, imo is more effective since it creates 2 distinct units. The assault commands allows the squad to move in fire teams, but they share suppression iirc so if the forward team is hit hard and quickly suppressed then the covering team will also be suppressed. Whereas splitting the squad into two teams insures that the covering team will not be suppressed if the moving team is. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skelley Posted May 3, 2011 Share Posted May 3, 2011 Also the final destination for the assault command usually ends up having troops too bunched up....more so than other commands 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lets_All_Fight Posted May 3, 2011 Share Posted May 3, 2011 Just realised that when using the ASSAULT command in CMSF twice (ie two legs) the teams bunny hop i.e team one from home to leg 1 then stops and covers while team two gets to leg 1 , then team one jumps to leg two etc .... how cool is that .... tentative link to CMBN i know. It's a very useful order. Just don't do it over too large a distance otherwise they'll want to sit down and have a tab and a brew. I certainly would. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottie Posted May 3, 2011 Author Share Posted May 3, 2011 I told you you'd like SF given half a chance Metal note to listen to you more often However splitting teams, imo is more effective since it creates 2 distinct units. The assault commands allows the squad to move in fire teams, but they share suppression iirc .... Ah really , didnt spot that in this circumstance due to lack of incoming fire. Thanks for the tip. Also the final destination for the assault command usually ends up having troops too bunched up....more so than other commands hmm , ok so i looks good but split teams is better. thanks again. It's a very useful order. Just don't do it over too large a distance otherwise they'll want to sit down and have a tab and a brew. I certainly would. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan8325 Posted May 3, 2011 Share Posted May 3, 2011 Metal note to listen to you more often Ah really , didnt spot that in this circumstance due to lack of incoming fire. Thanks for the tip. hmm , ok so i looks good but split teams is better. thanks again. All true except for when you are playing RED and can't split teams (special forces and airborne excepted). Then you have to use the "assault" command. Apparently it has to do with doctrine, where the squad is not trained to split into two independent fire teams. I personally would have rather seen CMSF go about it by allowing the split for RED squads and then imposing severe leadership quality penalties on team B, rather than just not allowing it at all. You can, afterall, use the assault command, which naturally splits teams for a limited distance, and also the HQ squad (which is simply a 9-man rifle squad that has the platoon leader attached) has a 2-man AT team hard-coded split out. That is why Syrian rifle platoons in CMSF have a 7-man HQ team and 2-man AT team. This is not a real-life organisation, but simply a concession to allow more flexibility in the game. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stitch Posted May 3, 2011 Share Posted May 3, 2011 For a second there I thought you were talking about another game, and just left off a letter... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisND Posted May 3, 2011 Share Posted May 3, 2011 I like the assault command when I have a lot of units and splitting them all up would be too much micromanagement. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battlefront.com Posted May 3, 2011 Share Posted May 3, 2011 Also the final destination for the assault command usually ends up having troops too bunched up....more so than other commands That's actually not possible. Each Team within a Squad occupies it's own Action Spot. They never purposefully occupy each others' Action Spots, though it can sometimes happen when guys are passing through and get hit with suppressive fire. Which means no matter what Command you use for a 3 Team Squad the end disposition is identical to the start disposition in terms of density. Terrain considerations, however, can influence spacing within an Action Spot. However, that is purely influenced by the terrain and not the Command. Steve 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battlefront.com Posted May 3, 2011 Share Posted May 3, 2011 That is why Syrian rifle platoons in CMSF have a 7-man HQ team and 2-man AT team. This is not a real-life organisation, but simply a concession to allow more flexibility in the game. Actually, the reason for that is coding limitation that was unforeseen when we set up the basic guts of the game. CMx2 does not allow an HQ Team to be a part of a Squad and a Team is limited to 7 men. The Syrians, and it turns out Germans and Dutch, have organizations where the Platoon Leader is also a Squad Leader instead of being fully independent. This poses a bunch of problems for the underlying code because Squads are inherently made up of Teams and are almost always more than 7 men. If these limitations didn't exist the Syrians would have three Squads in their Rifle Platoons instead of the HQ Team, AT Team, and two Squads it has in the game now. This is a significant problem that requires an overhaul to the UI as well as the game guts. Hopefully this will happen for the next big release (i.e. not a Module). It's not much of a problem for CM:BN, thankfully, but there are some instances where I had to fudge work arounds (mostly weapons units). Steve 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil stanbridge Posted May 3, 2011 Share Posted May 3, 2011 You tried the Nato module yet Scottie? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piecekeeper Posted May 3, 2011 Share Posted May 3, 2011 Does the whole squad still be crawling on the ground when one team is getting suppressed? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vincere Posted May 3, 2011 Share Posted May 3, 2011 That's actually not possible. Each Team within a Squad occupies it's own Action Spot. They never purposefully occupy each others' Action Spots, though it can sometimes happen when guys are passing through and get hit with suppressive fire. Which means no matter what Command you use for a 3 Team Squad the end disposition is identical to the start disposition in terms of density. Terrain considerations, however, can influence spacing within an Action Spot. However, that is purely influenced by the terrain and not the Command. Steve This feels odd, because like you know, it's your game. But it sounds like you are talking CMSF as well as Normandy. And well I get the bunching with Assault so much I'd say "all the time". There was a sizable thread about it in SF forum and consensus was yeah, that's a limitation of the command. Since then I used it less because two teams in one action spot is another risk to factor in. Also in SF when giving the command I think only one action spot highlight appears at destination giving the appearance that it's working as designed. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wengart Posted May 3, 2011 Share Posted May 3, 2011 All true except for when you are playing RED and can't split teams (special forces and airborne excepted). Then you have to use the "assault" command. In that case i like to assault by squads. I really don't like the assault command and have used only a handful of occasions. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjkerner Posted May 3, 2011 Share Posted May 3, 2011 "Game guts" Is that a technical term, Steve? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan8325 Posted May 3, 2011 Share Posted May 3, 2011 Ah ok, thanks for that. Looking forward to having platoon/squad leaders in CMSF2, and also choosing whether squad leaders stay as commander of their vehicle or move out with the squad. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skelley Posted May 4, 2011 Share Posted May 4, 2011 That's actually not possible. Each Team within a Squad occupies it's own Action Spot. They never purposefully occupy each others' Action Spots, though it can sometimes happen when guys are passing through and get hit with suppressive fire. Which means no matter what Command you use for a 3 Team Squad the end disposition is identical to the start disposition in terms of density. Terrain considerations, however, can influence spacing within an Action Spot. However, that is purely influenced by the terrain and not the Command. Steve I just ran some tests. Flat ground, no incoming fire, clear ground, no trees or anything like that. Ran it over and over with the same results. Start spread out, end in much tighter circle. Looks to me that they end on 1 action spot as opposed to 3 separate action spots. I have the screenshots on photobucket....gotta figure out how to post them here. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skelley Posted May 4, 2011 Share Posted May 4, 2011 Hopefully this works <center> <a href="http://s1122.photobucket.com/albums/l536/Firewalker2011/?action=view¤t=CMShockForce2011-05-0320-40-07-32.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1122.photobucket.com/albums/l536/Firewalker2011/th_CMShockForce2011-05-0320-40-07-32.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket" ></a> <a href="http://s1122.photobucket.com/albums/l536/Firewalker2011/?action=view¤t=CMShockForce2011-05-0320-41-08-06.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1122.photobucket.com/albums/l536/Firewalker2011/th_CMShockForce2011-05-0320-41-08-06.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket" ></a> </center> 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skelley Posted May 4, 2011 Share Posted May 4, 2011 Damn...didn't work Anybody know how to do this? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skelley Posted May 4, 2011 Share Posted May 4, 2011 Lets try this again Starting off...nice and spread out End up bunched up 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottie Posted May 4, 2011 Author Share Posted May 4, 2011 You tried the Nato module yet Scottie? Yeah Phil , grabbed the CMSF module bundle as soon as it came out and have never looked back Despite the fictional conflict and bland terrain (IMO) there are some extremely enjoyable tactical problems to solve , very rewarding when it all works out Hope the new member of family is doing well, hope you are managing to get some sleep these days 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wodin Posted May 4, 2011 Share Posted May 4, 2011 I like the assualt command...first game to have bounding fire and movement with one order...something I always wanted... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noxnoctum Posted May 4, 2011 Share Posted May 4, 2011 However splitting teams, imo is more effective since it creates 2 distinct units. The assault commands allows the squad to move in fire teams, but they share suppression iirc so if the forward team is hit hard and quickly suppressed then the covering team will also be suppressed. Whereas splitting the squad into two teams insures that the covering team will not be suppressed if the moving team is. And therein lies the problem... until it's fixed I split teams. Of course I still use assault command sometimes when I just don't have time to split teams and micro to that level. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battlefront.com Posted May 4, 2011 Share Posted May 4, 2011 Bug introduced in v1.10. All fixed for CM:BN and will be in the next for CM:SF. And let the cheers commence Steve 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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