Dual Mac/PC download license

[gibsonm]

Well like I said buy the Mac version.

Buying it is cheaper than buying a legit copy of Win XP / Win 7 to run the PC copy (you presumably already own) under BootCamp or the emulation software (which will have glacial performance - you have been warned ).

[Destraex1]

indeed.

For me it will be the PC version on a PC.

[MikeyD]

I'd almost swear the same people who have been badmouthing CM for years are now complaining that they can't get extra free copies.

I have an idea. BFC can do the free dual port thing but charge EVERYBODY an extra twenty bucks for the game without exception to make up the difference. You don't really think free is free, do you?

[GSX]

This sounds rather like wanting a red shirt and a blue shirt then being disappointed with the clothing retailer for not letting you pay for just one and return it whenever you want for the other color. Sure they're both the same style shirt but they're still two different products.

Hardly, it's more like buying music from Zune and not being able to play it on an iPod.

[DaveyJJ]

Hardly, it's more like buying music from Zune and not being able to play it on an iPod.

What the hell is a "Zune"?

[rune]

Since we are talking games, lets compare to a game rig. If I get a xbox 360 game, can it play on the playstation? No? How about EA games, they surely allow you to run on a pc and a mac. No? How about steam games, certainly they allow you to download and run the games on pc and mac. No?

Yep, looks like people complaining they aren't getting enough free games.

Rune

[Redwolf]

Um.... Bootcamp?

Sure, you need a licensed MS OS. Which, actually, is more $$, but greater flexibility...

No the problem is that I don't want to shut down MacOS. There's stuff running there, you know?

What I want is answer a PBEM move real quick without killing everything in sight.

Anyone tried Crossover?: http://www.codeweavers.com/products/cxgames/

Are there still issues w. WINE and 3D modelling?

Wine 1.3 does a great job with many games for me, including a number of battlefront titles and the now defunct LOTRO.

However, the graphics initialization code as of CMSF:Brits is still doing something that wine doesn't support and 3D don't come up. The game is too low profile for the wine people to care to find what's going on.

In CMx1 you could make things work by using the Cedega version, or a specific Cedega version to be precise. But that line of Wine (hehe) is now defunct so it's kinda pointless.

[yllamana]

Since we are talking games, lets compare to a game rig. If I get a xbox 360 game, can it play on the playstation? No? How about EA games, they surely allow you to run on a pc and a mac. No? How about steam games, certainly they allow you to download and run the games on pc and mac. No?

Yep, looks like people complaining they aren't getting enough free games.

Rune

How the heck is $60USD "free"?

And yes, there are games on Steam that let you play both the Mac and PC version. There are also other games that let you play both - I know Arcen's games, Tidalis and AI War, let you play on either platform once you've bought the game. You already paid once, so why would you pay them again? Let's not forget the reigning champion of multi-platform games, Blizzard, who do not charge anything extra for playing their game on whatever platforms you like right off the disc.

In general, the companies that separate Mac and PC versions of the game do so because they have a different developer or porting house and often a different publisher entirely, so the money is flowing to different people. That isn't so in this case as far as I'm aware. At any rate, claiming that the OS-specific code takes up 100% of the development expense and that the guts of the game engine itself, its art assets, its levels, etc were all done as an afterthought and thus that paying for the complete game again is fair is absurd on its face and, I'm sure, not something that Battlefront/Big Time Software would ever do.

Nobody here is talking about getting things "for free". People want to support the developer and have more cool Combat Mission games come out for more gaming fun. It's totally reasonable, though, to point out that there is some level of demand to be able to play both platforms' versions of the game without paying the full retail price a second time, something that many developers offer as a free value-add when they're not restricted by division of money between developers and publishing groups.

[drbassie]

As someone who has a mac desktop and a Windows laptop, I understand wanting to be able to play it on both platforms, but it's plainly obvious you'd have to buy both versions to do this.

As a network administrator (with Macs and PCs), I can tell you Microsoft Office and Adobe CS Suites require different licenses for each platform. That's the norm. If you have software that the publisher gave you license for both platforms, consider yourself lucky. You're essentially getting a BOGO free.

[Guest]

And yes, there are games on Steam that let you play both the Mac and PC version. There are also other games that let you play both - I know Arcen's games, Tidalis and AI War, let you play on either platform once you've bought the game. You already paid once, so why would you pay them again? Let's not forget the reigning champion of multi-platform games, Blizzard, who do not charge anything extra for playing their game on whatever platforms you like right off the disc.

Arcen uses the Unity engine. Their Mac "port" was absolutely, 100% free of charge and development costs. They clicked a different button in the Unity export interface. I'm not saying their actions aren't admirable, and I wish them the best (they're... going bankrupt, aren't they?), but their costs were nil.

Blizzard is perhaps the largest game company in the history of the industry. I wouldn't even compare *Valve's* actions and theirs. Their concept of "cost" is something entirely other. They bring in enough cash per quarter via WoW alone to do a Mac port of their engine every couple months and then chuck it and let their purebred snow huskies eat the programmers involved.

Valve is the outlier here, isn't it? I'm still trying to work out why they ported the Source engine to Mac. It seems to have cost them nothing but headaches. Of course, it probably helps that a single weekend of TF2 hat sales nets them a couple million bucks. And that Source was built originally with an eye toward porting it to OSX. And they have scads of programmers to throw at anything they want.

So, you're either comparing BFC a) with some industry giant that rakes in more money than the whole indie scene combined (Minecraft excepted - that was *another* practically free OSX port, mind) or a company that uses an engine where the OSX and Windows (and web) versions are free of cost.

You may not be demanding something for "free", but you're certainly holding a company that wrote its own engine and then ported said engine to an entirely different operating system, to an unusual standard.

[rune]

Ylla,

Go ahead and run the games from steam on the two computers at the same time...tell me what happens.

Have to agree with Phil, as I know if there was anyway possible the bfc team would have allowed it.

Rune

[yllamana]

Arcen uses the Unity engine. Their Mac "port" was absolutely, 100% free of charge and development costs. They clicked a different button in the Unity export interface. I'm not saying their actions aren't admirable, and I wish them the best (they're... going bankrupt, aren't they?), but their costs were nil.

AI War didn't originally use Unity - it used to use what I believe was their own engine. AFAIK one of the big reasons they switched to Unity was to be able to make the Mac version. I could be wrong on that score, though.

I haven't heard anything about them going bankrupt. I think Tidalis may have not sold as well as they hoped - I know they're putting more focus on marketing for their new titles and see that as a key cause of its lower-than-expected sales, and they've picked up a new staff member to address that.

Anyway, all that aside, as I said in my first post in this thread it's not something that is going to keep me up at night one way or the other. I mainly wanted to explain how I felt about it to provide another data point.

If the Mac market is so small then I'm not sure that the potential double sales to people who want both the Windows version and the Mac version would be enough to subsidise the cost of its development, so I'm not sure I see your point there - it seems like what you've written would mainly support not making a Mac port in the first place rather than treating it as a separate product. For my part, while I'd like to play the Mac version - and would regard its existence as added value - I expect better optimisation and support on the Windows end and so would probably get the Windows one for that reason if I had to choose one or the other. I would not be willing to pay for an extra license just to potentially avoid rebooting (and I'm not interested in running it on two of my computers at the same time, which would generally be the reason I'd buy a second license of a game).

Ylla,

Go ahead and run the games from steam on the two computers at the same time...tell me what happens.

Have to agree with Phil, as I know if there was anyway possible the bfc team would have allowed it.

Rune

I'm not interested in running it on two computers at the same time. Personally, I'm interested in running it on the same computer via Boot Camp in whichever version gets the best experience or is most convenient. The OP also mentions steam, so I assume s/he only intends to use one copy at a time, too.

[Wodin]

Forgive me if I'm wrong but hasn't all software released for these two OS been incompatible? So you'd have to buy both versions f you want them...

As long as you have one version on one kind of system isn't that enough?

Small developer here remember...and there making a game that any other large publisher would turn away so we wouldn't even be debating this issue...

Me if I had the luxury to own two systems let alone an expensive Mac I sure wouldn't be worried about buying two versions...I'd love a mac laptop but way beyond my price range...Honestly if you can afford both surely you can afford two versions...

Also well said Phil....I think they are demanding something for free to be bluntly honest...

[Redwolf]

Since we are talking games, lets compare to a game rig. If I get a xbox 360 game, can it play on the playstation? No? How about EA games, they surely allow you to run on a pc and a mac. No? How about steam games, certainly they allow you to download and run the games on pc and mac. No?

Yep, looks like people complaining they aren't getting enough free games.

Rune

Nobody wants free cookies.

All we say is that it would make sense, given that BFC intends to let us install on desktop and laptop (which OBVIOUSLY also means it isn't played at the same time unless h2h with a friend) to not artificially punish those who were half-smart and at least got a non-windows notebook.

It also makes sense to not punish other people for later switching their lone computer to a mac.

The only lost revenue would be from suckers like me who get both, but I can assure you that very few people will buy two licenses in the wintop + macbook scenario.

Most will just not play on the notebook in that case. And that isn't good for BFC because now (a) the time and energy and money invested into the mac port is wasted on that customer and ( they spend less time with the game which means less time to get addicted and hence the are less likely to get all the modules.

[Redwolf]

Ylla,

Go ahead and run the games from steam on the two computers at the same time...tell me what happens.

Have to agree with Phil, as I know if there was anyway possible the bfc team would have allowed it.

Rune

You can install steam games in several locations just fine, and then play either of them. That what people here want and despite your best efforts to imply the contrary I think you understand that very well.

The only reason why it's not "possible" is that they picked some random homegrown DRM which isn't prepared for it. Given that they allow 5 installs without even asking one has to wonder whether this isn't just a massive waste of money and worth the restrictions on the users. The only users who forget the license keys are the paying customers. The pirates get a non-DRM version anyway and never notice a thing.

[yllamana]

The only lost revenue would be from suckers like me who get both, but I can assure you that very few people will buy two licenses in the wintop + macbook scenario.

Most will just not play on the notebook in that case. And that isn't good for BFC because now (a) the time and energy and money invested into the mac port is wasted on that customer and ( they spend less time with the game which means less time to get addicted and hence the are less likely to get all the modules.

Yes, exactly. People playing and enjoying the game more is a win. It means they're more likely to buy the next one and to recommend the game to others.

Me if I had the luxury to own two systems let alone an expensive Mac I sure wouldn't be worried about buying two versions...I'd love a mac laptop but way beyond my price range...Honestly if you can afford both surely you can afford two versions...

People are able to afford two systems with all the money saved from not buying the same games twice.

[rune]

and i disagree, if people enjoy the game enough, they will go out of their way to play it on whatever box. While you protest the game protection, I could care less, non-obtrusive and not my call anyway. The guys know how much they lose in sales, or at least have an estimate, and in their opinion they need to protect their software. hey, it is their software, so if they feel it is needed, so be it.

And while I feel for the people who want to be able to switch operating systems, let us also be realistic. people WILL run the game on multiple systems at the same time. Heck I have it running on 5 systems right now. Guess what, I went and bought additional copies, even being a beta tester.

As for the modules, if people are interested in what is on the module, and enjoy the game, they are going to get it. If either one isn't true, then they won't. Doesn't matter what o/s is available, the user is going to like the game or not, and will know if they do within the first hour of playing. I don't buy the arguement "well, if I could play it 10 more hours on my laptop, then maybe I will like the game". Battlefront apparently has decided the protection of their software is more important then the loss of a few sales becuase they don't allow both operating systems to use one license. All the guessing otherwise is just that, guessing. They know the figures and have decided... that simple.

Rune

[Redwolf]

And while I feel for the people who want to be able to switch operating systems, let us also be realistic. people WILL run the game on multiple systems at the same time. Heck I have it running on 5 systems right now. Guess what, I went and bought additional copies, even being a beta tester.

Running, eh? You play two with one hand each, one with each foot and one with the nose?

Despite your best efforts to pretend not to notice the difference between multiple installs and running at the same time it isn't very convincing.

[Battlefront.com]

The only reason why it's not "possible" is that they picked some random homegrown DRM which isn't prepared for it.

Nothing random about what we picked. You don't seem to have much of an idea what is out there or the cost structure of those options. We do.

Given that they allow 5 installs without even asking one has to wonder whether this isn't just a massive waste of money and worth the restrictions on the users.

Since we don't like wasting money, or pissing off customers, one should presume we aren't flying blind.

The only users who forget the license keys are the paying customers.

Thankfully they don't need to remember their license keys. Install and forget.

The pirates get a non-DRM version anyway and never notice a thing.

The point of DRM is to defeat the pirates in the first place. Otherwise why have DRM at all, right? eLicense gave us many years of crack free releases, but it's a compromised technology going forward. Which is one reason why we switched. We expect to have many more years of crack free releases. Which is good for paying customers since they aren't paying for other people's free rides or lamenting our demise as we go out of business.

Steve

[rune]

Are you intentionally being a twit? If I said I am running it on three computers, then it is running on three computers. Maybe there are others that live here? Maybe you are the one without a clue when i said EXACTLY what i meant. You are just trying to start a fight and I won't play your game. Steve answered, and backed what I said.

Rune

Running, eh? You play two with one hand each, one with each foot and one with the nose?

Despite your best efforts to pretend not to notice the difference between multiple installs and running at the same time it isn't very convincing.

[leakyD]

The cost is in having to buy a windows license to run on bootcamp

Windows OS licenses are usually tied to a computer for its life. Although I expect if that computer died and the

MAC was its replacement the Windows license can move to the MAC. Thats the only legal way around the $300 or so windows license I can think

of for MAC users with boot camp.

You can get WinXP home for less than $100 off eBay or Amazon. Heck, buy a dead PC off eBay for $50 (or less) w. the product key on the unit. Grab an MSDN ISO and install w. key. All good. 100% legit.

And, once installed in a VM, just back it up onto external storage.

I have a bunch of different VM's on my home office NAS. Only 2-3 are on laptop at any given time. Need a diffent OS? Swap VM's. My laptop dies? Resurrect laptop and copy VM over. Done.

Granted, VM's don't work w. Bootcamp (VMware let's you MAKE VM's from Bootcamp - if that makes sense), but you can reinstall the MS OS onto Bootcamp partition whenever. There is no "license tied to computer" condition. It's Bootcamp, baby!

Being somewhat tech savvy can help avoid the MS OS hegemony.

[gibsonm]

Sure but playing it in a VM environment you will get:

a. Glacial performance

b. Poor Video support

So by all means use your PC license in a BootCamp partition running natively or buy the Mac version to run natively.

If you want the convenience of being able to swap from CM:BN in say Fusion to some other Apple app the cost of that convenience is cr*p CM:BN performance (so if you do, don’t complain about poor FPS numbers, etc. you have been warned).

Caveat Emptor.

[Battlefront.com]

We could have gone the easier route... not developed a Mac version. It would eliminate the source of all this consternation at least.

As others have pointed out, if one wants to use PhotoShop (or pretty much any multi platform app that can be named) on their PC and their Mac they will need two licenses regardless of if they ever use one at a time.

It's also flattering to be compared to multi hundred Million or multi Billion Dollar companies whose products cost in the hundreds of bucks per license. Really it is, but that doesn't really make it relevant.

Steve

[Wodin]

We could have gone the easier route... not developed a Mac version. It would eliminate the source of all this consternation at least.

As others have pointed out, if one wants to use PhotoShop (or pretty much any multi platform app that can be named) on their PC and their Mac they will need two licenses regardless of if they ever use one at a time.

It's also flattering to be compared to multi hundred Million or multi Billion Dollar companies whose products cost in the hundreds of bucks per license. Really it is, but that doesn't really make it relevant.

Steve

Exactly....not sure if it is the times we live in but I feel ungratefulness and the way people believe they have aright to everything is troubling...

Count your blessings...you should be pleased a Mac version has been developed in the first place...no one forced them to I'm sure...

[Redwolf]

leakyD, CMSF doesn't work in any VM that I am aware of, certainly not VMware.

As mentioned it also doesn't work in API mappers such as Wine.

I don't expect it to be different for CMBN.