CM:BN Beta AAR/DAR Bois de Baugin - German side

[Gryphonne]

I can answer the question about on-map indirectly. From the spotter's perspective there is no difference between on and off-map behavior. When you think about it, there shouldn't be because we're simulating the indirect fire, not whether the asset is on or off the map.

Fields can be arranged horizontally or vertically. Er.. I don't think diagonally, but maybe JonS can answer that. We also have fields with crops in them. This changes LOS conditions.

Steve

Thanks for the reply there Steve Can't wait to see how this will work in game. One other quick question, will assigning a spotter also work on vehicle units such as mortar half-tracks or other on-map vehicle-based weapons capable of indirect fire in CMs scope?

[JonS]

8: Sniping for victory

From minutes 10-20 I was kinda busy over on the right flank on Hill 154 and the Bois. Luckily the other flank stayed quiet and I was able to Economy of Force there. In fact, I was so frugal that this guy held down the entire rest of the front for me for those 10 minutes:

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Yep. One sniper pair. These guys were in a much better position than the poor saps over on Hill 154, being back inside the treeline a bit more. Oh, see that bright spot in the image? That’s a spent cartridge case being ejected. The rifle also lifts noticeably with each recoil.

The main reason it worked, though, is that this flank has been so quiet – a total of one platoon nervously making it’s way up the cart track between the two fields.

The German headquarters flag you see there on Hill 144 is the Mortar platoon Commander who’s being calling in multiple missions on Hill 154.

Still, one guy with a scoped rifle holding up a platoon – I like that. The really nice thing is that he’s been steadily inflicting casualties, and has kept them back far enough that they won’t have found the two minefields I thoughtfully placed along the cart track in anticipation of it’s use

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Actually, that sniper fired so much that he blew through his entire ammo allocation of 50-odd rounds, funnily enough right around minute 20. I Quicked him back through the forest to meet the Kubel, where he loaded up with another 100 rounds, raced back again, and got back into the fight about 5 minutes later, this time overlooking the D-28.

[Gpig]

SAH-weet. Does your sniper work the bolt, to eject that spent casing?

Err . . . wait a second. My ignorance is a showin'!

[JonS]

No.

But on bolt action rifles they do

[Chad Harrison]

Just got caught up on the AAR. Looks like things are going good so far Jon!

From the screens it looks like most of your troops on the Bois are on the reverse slope - but still in the woods. Is this the case? Are there foxholes there? With your scenario depleted troops, how many men are there about? 40? Seems like hes going to have a bear of a time clearing them out in thick woods, on a reverse slope, and being unable to bring up armor support with all your toys waiting for him.

Thanks again for the AAR and keep it up!

Chad

[Michael Emrys]

Question: I notice the use of the word 'sniper' here. In CMBO we had sharpshooters, which was a more accurate descriptive given their role. Has that role and attendant capabilities changed for CMBN, justifying the name change?

Michael

[JonS]

From the screens it looks like most of your troops on the Bois are on the reverse slope - but still in the woods. Is this the case? Are there foxholes there? With your scenario depleted troops, how many men are there about? 40? Seems like he's going to have a bear of a time clearing them out in thick woods, on a reverse slope, and being unable to bring up armor support with all your toys waiting for him.

No, there aren't any foxholes on the reverse of the Bois/Hill 154, although there are on Hill 144.

Each of my sections started with about 6 men, making them quite brittle compared to the US sections. Each of the platoons has a different total number of men though - one is missing a section, a couple are missing a 'shreck, one has an extra MG team, etc. As a rule of thumb, each of the platoons has 20-25 men. They also have different numbers of 'fausts.

Yeah, he's already found that trying to clear through the woods is hard going - and so did I with the ill-advised counter-attack

[JonS]

Question: I notice the use of the word 'sniper' here. In CMBO we had sharpshooters, which was a more accurate descriptive given their role. Has that role and attendant capabilities changed for CMBN, justifying the name change?

I don't know, or care all that much. Perhaps think of these teams as "two guys, one of whom has a scoped rifle."

[Dietrich]

I notice the use of the word 'sniper' here. In CMBO we had sharpshooters, which was a more accurate descriptive given their role. Has that role and attendant capabilities changed for CMBN, justifying the name change?

Well, what was the contemporary (circa 1944) name for an infantryman who was trained in marksmanship as well as fieldcraft and issued with a scoped rifle?

[silverstars]

On that last pic with the GI in the foreground looking up he hill. His icon is now a dark orange compared to the O.D. Green we have seen else where. does that signify you have clicked on him to see what units he sees, or does it signify something else?

Again, thanks to you and Elvis for a great AAR!

[Field Marshal Blücher]

does that signify you have clicked on him to see what units he sees

It signifies that.

[Michael Emrys]

Well, what was the contemporary (circa 1944) name for an infantryman who was trained in marksmanship as well as fieldcraft and issued with a scoped rifle?

The sharpshooters in the US army received the same training as the rest of their platoon, but because they excelled in marksmanship, they got the scoped Springfield. The German army followed the same practice but halfway through the war also began specialized training for snipers to take out high value targets, much as is practiced today. I think the British did something like the Germans, but I am not yet very familiar with their practice.

The point regarding this DAR is that while I would expect to see a German sharpshooter, I am a bit surprised to see a dedicated sniper team on the front lines defending a not very critical position. There weren't that many to go around.

Michael

[Battlefront.com]

Here's the skinny on the Sniper/Marksmans thing. The definitions are squishy because to a soldier a single soldier taking aimed pot shots at him is a "sniper". So in that sense even a guy without special training and no scope could, possibly, have the enemy bestow that title no matter what his side called him. So in that vein we are taking to calling the independent, dedicated sharpshooters "Snipers". These aren't necessarily the guys who went back to Germany for special training, but if you crank up their attributes (Experience, Morale, Physical Fitness, etc.) I'd say that covers an "Enemy At The Gates" type sniper situation no problem. Less the bad accents and a little kid providing info to both sides, of course

The Germans were very, very adept at leaving behind a couple of carefully selected sharpshooters to delay the enemy's advance, cover areas that weren't well covered by combined arms, or generally harass the enemy. This was especially true in Normandy, where the opportunities for sniping and getting away with it were common.

Where did these guys come from? Well, over time Battalions sometimes kept a small pool of sharpshooters separate from the line units. Or at least they had each Company keep tabs on their best so they could be pooled for special missions. The other possibility, of course, is that with the headcount reduction feature they could easily be argued to have come from various depleted Rifle Squads.

Steve

[Michael Emrys]

Fair enough.

Michael

[Chad Harrison]

Yeah, he's already found that trying to clear through the woods is hard going - and so did I with the ill-advised counter-attack

Yeah, but we all do that - for me, atleast twice in all of my past CMx1 PBEM's!

Well, it will certainly be interesting to see if he can clear the woods with all your troops on the backside. He certainly has more than a few men to put up in there . . .

[gunnersman]

7: The Battle for the Bois de Baugin continued...

In order to prevent Elvis infiltrating around the edge of the woods, I got the two HMG-42s away over on Hill 144 chattering away, firing into the flank of the Bois.

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The beaten zone is quite large and the HMG teams have a ton of ammo so I just left them to it, firing away minute after minute after minute, moving the aim point about from time to time. I don’t know if they’ll inflict any casualties, I’d be pretty surprised if they did, actually. But they’ll restrict Elvis’ options in the Bois, which in itself is a success.

JonS,

You use the term "Beaten zone" almost as if you are able to target an area with the HMG like you would target an area when calling in artillery. Are you physically targeting an area each turn using "Area Target" and changing where the HMG aims or can you create a target circle like you would when calling in artillery?

[WillyPete2171]

How did you know it was the HQ tank?

GaJ

Also, he means 75mm AP round, or shell, right? When I think of a grenade I think of a little high explosive weapon that is thrown from your hand or shot from the end of a rifle...

[JonS]

JonS,

You use the term "Beaten zone" almost as if you are able to target an area with the HMG like you would target an area when calling in artillery. Are you physically targeting an area each turn using "Area Target" and changing where the HMG aims or can you create a target circle like you would when calling in artillery?

No, not an area target, but the effect is much the same. You nominate a point, but there is burst-to-burst dispersion around the point of aim that is quite large. I haven't measured it, but I want to say 15-20m left and right, add and drop. No ... that's probably too much. Say 10-15m? Anyway, it's quite noticeable, and I think rather useful. I can nominate my point, then just leave the MG chattering away for several minutes, happy in the knowledge that a reasonably large area is being interdicted.

I haven't done any kind of rigorous testing to see how it's affected by range or other variables. It could well be that this map makes good use of it because guns can be set up for long-range enfilade in many different spots. You can see in the screenshot that the range given is ~680m.

[JonS]

Also, he means 75mm AP round, or shell, right? When I think of a grenade I think of a little high explosive weapon that is thrown from your hand or shot from the end of a rifle...

It's an affectation on my part - the Germans called their AP rounds grenades (or granate). Actually, I think they referred to any projectile filled with molten 'splody goodness a grenade. For example.

[Michael Emrys]

Actually, I think they referred to any projectile filled with molten 'splody goodness a grenade. For example.

You'll note that they also applied the term to solid shot with no explosive, the APCR for instance.

Michael

[Wengart]

Speaking of bolt action rifles, is the animation finally correct? In CM:SF the shell casing would eject before the bolt was cycled.

[LukeFF]

The Germans were very, very adept at leaving behind a couple of carefully selected sharpshooters to delay the enemy's advance, cover areas that weren't well covered by combined arms, or generally harass the enemy. This was especially true in Normandy, where the opportunities for sniping and getting away with it were common.

Where did these guys come from? Well, over time Battalions sometimes kept a small pool of sharpshooters separate from the line units. Or at least they had each Company keep tabs on their best so they could be pooled for special missions. The other possibility, of course, is that with the headcount reduction feature they could easily be argued to have come from various depleted Rifle Squads.

Steve

Here's a good article on the subject:

http://www.axishistory.com/index.php?id=2031

[scottie]

JonS,

You use the term "Beaten zone" almost as if you are able to target an area with the HMG like you would target an area when calling in artillery. Are you physically targeting an area each turn using "Area Target" and changing where the HMG aims or can you create a target circle like you would when calling in artillery?

All these screenshots in the AARs and tactical discussions are really building the excitement. Days are just crawling by waiting on an announcement to pre-purchase.

[Battlefront.com]

Here's a good article on the subject:

http://www.axishistory.com/index.php?id=2031

A very interesting read, thanks. It is cool to see that JonS' tactics are producing results similar to what is found in the history books. Obviously none of us should tell JonS what is/isn't happening from Elvis' point of view, but from JonS' point of view clearly the snipers are producing positive results disproportionate to their numbers. Well, except for the first sniper team that is

Steve

[JonS]

9: General Assault

Not to be confused with his cousin; Major Confusion.

With the fighting dying out on Hill 154, a sort of expectant pause settles over the battlefield. I can see Elvis moving units up to his edge of the Bois, including a number of tanks and a truck towing an anti-tank gun. Wanting to re-create a reserve I start pulling the platoon on Hill 144 off, intending to move them around behind la Campagne. Over the next couple of minutes there are an increasing number of sightings, especially on my previously quiet left flank, and in the centre.

Now the swing of the second Jg.Pz.IV around to Hill 144 pays off. An M4A1 Sherman starts trundling up the D-28, and is promptly dispatched with a single round:

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That image is zoomed x5. The distance is about 580m.

With a company or so up on Hill 154, and a couple of platoons with tank support spotted on the cart track on my left, there’s not much the scouts forward of la Campagne on the D-28 can do, so I start leap-frogging them back to the buildings.

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It takes several turns as first the scouts move back 30-40m and prop, then the ‘schreck team moves back through them, and so on. Eventually both teams arrive back at the hamlet, where they provide a welcome fillip.

The clutch of Shermans Hill 154 start jockeying about, and the JgPz.IV on Hill 144 swings into action again ...

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It turns out that's the same Sherman that The Hunter was firing at a while ago, this being the fourth hit it’s taken. See that odd pale blue shape at about 1 o’clock from the muzzle? That’s the AP round after it's ricocheted and is spinning furiously. It looks a little odd in a freeze frame, but the video of it is quite impressive as it described a slow and graceful arc, to land about 30m in front of the Sherman. That must be the luckiest Sherman alive!

The tempo continues to increase, and soon a full scale general attack is in progress.

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Two platoons are charging up the cart track, there’s another platoon moving forward along the D-28, and there is a known mass of force on Hill 154. My personal morale is sagging – there’s a lot of Americans on the move and the Thin Grey Line is looking very thin, and is out of position.

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Things are going to get hot and heavy all over the place, very very soon.