German use of captured French tanks.

[Copper]

Will we see captured French tanks being used it CMBN?

[MikeyD]

I'm not 100% sure but by the time the title is complete (basegame and modules) its pretty likely a least a representative French tank might show up. The last module's supposed to be something of a vehicle free-for-all. Bad choices of words - let's call it a vehicle mash-up.

[Jaws]

I'm not 100% sure but by the time the title is complete (basegame and modules) its pretty likely a least a representative French tank might show up. The last module's supposed to be something of a vehicle free-for-all. Bad choices of words - let's call it a vehicle mash-up.

21st Panzer Division may play a key role in that module to be a bit more specific

[Battlefront.com]

There is a possibility of French stuff showing up in the final CM:BN Module, but definitely not until then. Same for pretty much anything "exotic".

Steve

[Golani]

There is a possibility of French stuff showing up in the final CM:BN Module, but definitely not until then. Same for pretty much anything "exotic".

Steve

IIRC it wasn't very exotic, the German 91st division in the peninsula had only, or mostly R35 and H39 and had enough of them to make them significant.

[Jaws]

IIRC it wasn't very exotic, the German 91st division in the peninsula had only, or mostly R35 and H39 and had enough of them to make them significant.

They are interesting enough to model. So lets wait for that module. But the glass is half full here and see what’s modelled already

[Copper]

Thanks Steve. I'm sure it's won't be a top priority but would be proper dressing for Normandy battles as so much of the stuff was intrograted into German units stationed in the area.

[Sequoia]

I'm hoping the Lynx made it into the original game as I didn't see it on the list of German tanks but Steve mentioned in another thread the list needs some editing.

[snake_eye]

There is a possibility of French stuff showing up in the final CM:BN Module, but definitely not until then. Same for pretty much anything "exotic".

Steve

I am surprise that taking so much care of the details for American troops and the Germans, you have completely forgotten the French tanks and carriers that the Germans had around Utah beach and the Cherbourg peninsula, to speak only of that area. These R-35 Renault tanks, the tracked ammo carrier, with its German counterpart the NSU Kettenkrad were the first one that the airborne troops saw in the first days of the invasion. These last two carriers were immediately used when captured, since they lacked vehicles at that time.The panzers, in small numbers at first,came a few days later.

I am not going to do any lobbying for having them, but just have present to your mind that you are forgetting facts that made history in these first few days. Not having them is somehow distorting the rendering of what these days were. Airborne remaining veterans would feel left aside even if it is a game and a pretty good simulation.

It deserves these tanks and carriers.

merry Xmas Steve

[patboy]

IIRC French tanks are used at "la fiere" against US Paratroopers? But I'm not sure about Ranger, Glider, Para or infantry troops!

[Sequoia]

I am surprise that taking so much care of the details for American troops and the Germans, you have completely forgotten the French tanks and carriers that the Germans had around Utah beach and the Cherbourg peninsula, to speak only of that area. These R-35 Renault tanks, the tracked ammo carrier, with its German counterpart the NSU Kettenkrad were the first one that the airborne troops saw in the first days of the invasion. These last two carriers were immediately used when captured, since they lacked vehicles at that time.The panzers, in small numbers at first,came a few days later.

I am not going to do any lobbying for having them, but just have present to your mind that you are forgetting facts that made history in these first few days. Not having them is somehow distorting the rendering of what these days were. Airborne remaining veterans would feel left aside even if it is a game and a pretty good simulation.

It deserves these tanks and carriers.

merry Xmas Steve

They did not forget them just as they did not forget the British, the SS, Fallschirmjaegers, King Tigers etc. The will most likely make an appearance and not with the same 3d skin used for two different types of French tanks as we did for CMBO/CMBB. It's even been mentioned we may get the Free French in the third module.

[Mord]

We aren't gonna know what we don't have until the title is put to sleep. As of now I am damn happy with the list of vehicles and I am pretty sure when all is said and done we're gonna have more for the time period involved (June to August?) than we did in CMBO. We've still got the Common Wealth module, Market Garden and the Hodge Podge modules to go...There's a lot of German stuff that could show up.

And that's coming from a guy that wants to see a Lynx and Renault...and even little Frenchie Partisans.

Mord.

[Jaws]

I am surprise that taking so much care of the details for American troops and the Germans, you have completely forgotten the French tanks and carriers that the Germans had around Utah beach and the Cherbourg peninsula, to speak only of that area. These R-35 Renault tanks, the tracked ammo carrier, with its German counterpart the NSU Kettenkrad were the first one that the airborne troops saw in the first days of the invasion. These last two carriers were immediately used when captured, since they lacked vehicles at that time.The panzers, in small numbers at first,came a few days later.

I am not going to do any lobbying for having them, but just have present to your mind that you are forgetting facts that made history in these first few days. Not having them is somehow distorting the rendering of what these days were. Airborne remaining veterans would feel left aside even if it is a game and a pretty good simulation.

It deserves these tanks and carriers.

merry Xmas Steve

Nope we did not forgot them and had discussion on the Beta forum about it.

As Steve says possible in a future Module. Here an picture of an R35 battle we discussed about. And you may tell us where it is.

[mjkerner]

Causeway at La Fiere Manoir, west of Ste. Mere Eglise. 82nd AB. I was hoping either the game would ship with this scenario, or I'd make my own, but I guess it might be a while before it can be done with the correct armor. I'll live...too much other goodness in CM:BN!

[Battlefront.com]

They did not forget them just as they did not forget the British, the SS, Fallschirmjaegers, King Tigers etc.

Yup, exactly. We know our history very well, almost as well as we know how long it takes to simulate history.

If we had to put EVERYTHING in the first release that saw action in the first week of combat in Normandy you could expect a release date of 2012. Nobody thinks that's a good idea, especially us, so that means that something isn't going to be in the initial release. French vehicles are definitely not the most important thing to include first round.

Jumping back a few posts, the French stuff is "exotic" in the sense that it was concentrated in very small pockets in only a few places at only a few periods of the campaign. So yes, when trying to simulate a battle between 21st Pz's non-German tank units you're going to have a problem. But the same goes if you try to simulate a battle between Brits and Waffen SS. The two types of engagements aren't in the same league, so we have to keep the use of captured French tanks in perspective.

Steve

[silverstars]

I was also thinking about making this a scenario-campaign as well. I knew from earlier posts the French oddities wouldn't make it in until the last module, although I was hoping for a German light tank to at least supplant it until after the 3-4 years it will take for the 4th module to come out.

But now I remember we can do RED vs. RED and BLUE vs. BLUE setups so at worst you could temporarily put in a M5A1 Stuart in their place, or maybe one of the cannon-armed German ACs. Not ideal, I know, but at least a placeholder till the real deal arrives.

Or you can just worry about the Manoir assault earlier in the day and the full-on assault across the causeway 1-2 days later, and hold off on the German counterattack.

[snake_eye]

Here a shot of Germans collected tanks parked in a field near Montebourg. They are mostly Renault R-35 with the obsolete short 37mm cannon . Yet, the 221 seems to have the longer version. The very powerful AT 75mm gun from a Marder can been seen in the background.

It might have belong to the 709 Panzerjager Abteilung

[snake_eye]

A picture of a Sherman Duplex Drive hit by a German gun, having been pushed aside, on one of the exit flooded causeway from Utah beach head.

This is an “exotic” picture, since not that many were landed and just a few got so far to help the Infantry in the first day.

It is however a good picture showing the reality of the deliberate flooding made by the Germans Engineers and the difficulty to progress inland, but on the few causeways, registered for indirect fire and covered by AT guns.

That could be a good scenario with infantry moving inland with water knee deep and Sherman DD being sitting ducks on a causeway, while German 795th battalion enrolled Georgian’s volunteers’ are fighting from crossroad strongholds.

It was the most important D-Day objective of the units on the beaches to get across the swamps areas, to be able to deploy and link with the Airborne

P.S: I am not asking for a Sherman DD, a normal one could do it for a scenario.

However, I have no alternative for the Renault R-35 and the Hotckiss H39 (38H) found around the beachheads and more precisely in the British sector on the east of Caen where the 21st Panzer Division counter attacked on June the 6th and latter on. Among them, the Panzer Abteilung 200, with numerous French tank, modified by Major Becker. That is the unit shown on numerous German propaganda movies, with the well know one with Rommel inspecting it. Some of these tanks, like the Pack 40 75mm gun,mounted on the French Hotckiss tank H39 (renamed 38H by the Germans)were attached to the Kamfgruppe Von Luck for its counter attack.

There were more of these found around than the Panzer Abteilung 503 Tigers and Tigers II(King Tiger) in the first month of the battle of Normandy.

[Michael Emrys]

It is however a good picture showing the reality of the deliberate flooding made by the Germans Engineers...with infantry moving inland with water knee deep...

I have read that in most places it was waist to chest deep and in some places neck deep (or more!).

Michael

[Jaws]

Causeway at La Fiere Manoir, west of Ste. Mere Eglise. 82nd AB. I was hoping either the game would ship with this scenario, or I'd make my own, but I guess it might be a while before it can be done with the correct armor. I'll live...too much other goodness in CM:BN!

Bingo . Well at least we will have a wish list left

[snake_eye]

I have read that in most places it was waist to chest deep and in some places neck deep (or more!).

Michael

That's right. The biggest danger was in the small river bed. The flooding seen around was made with the opening of La Barquette ( A D Day objective) doors letting the sea get in at high tide. To drop in with full gear and the chute falling on top, had been, for some, an almost impossible task when it was a little deeper than waist deep. To get in the swamps even today, to watch the birds, the ducks.... has to me made with caution.

Cheers

[mike_the_wino]

Same for pretty much anything "exotic".

Steve

'Exotic'?!?!? Like Boo Radley in a thong?

[gibsonm]

However, I have no alternative for the Renault R-35 and the Hotckiss H39 (38H) found around the beachheads and more precisely in the British sector on the east of Caen where the 21st Panzer Division counter attacked on June the 6th and latter on.

Nor will you have any British or Canadian troops to replicate this sector (at least initially).

[MikeyD]

It can't be stressed enough that "not in the initial release" is not the same as "not in the game". If you must must must have French tanks to construct your ideal scenario then simply wait until French tanks arrive! In the meantime concentrate on any one of the thousand other engagements that could be faithfully reproduced.

[Battlefront.com]

And let's not forget that even the extensive vehicle list of CMBO was missing almost all of the "exotic" vehicles discussed here. We had the H-35, unmodified. As far as I can recall that was the extent of the captured French stuff we dealt with. My memory could be failing me, but I did make 100% of the 3D models for CMBO so I think I'd remember if I made more than the H-35. And of course we had no Funnies in the game at all.

Yet somehow people managed to survive

Piece of trivia for you old hands... the H-35 was one of the first vehicles ever put into what became CMBO. I nicknamed it "Pierre"

Steve