German use of captured French tanks.

[snake_eye]

Nor will you have any British or Canadian troops to replicate this sector (at least initially).

That is sure, since they are not in the initial release !

[phil stanbridge]

And of course we had no Funnies in the game at all.

Steve

Didn't we have the AVRE/Croc in the game?

[Jaws]

Didn't we have the AVRE/Croc in the game?

Yes they where in indeed

[snake_eye]

Some of you seem satisfied that the « Exotic »tanks and in particular the R-35 and 38H won’t be in the initial release.*

If, I have read correctly the announcement, “Battle For Normandy” will cover the 3 months period for the US and German forces, after the D-Day landing on June 1944 till the Cobra breakthrough in August

Some of you wrote that to use “Exotic” tanks as the ones mentioned, we might have to wait the British and Canadian forces release later on. More, that will be a necessity, if one wants to make a scenario about the 21st Panzer division counter attacking the British forces as soon as the 6th June.

So, I am just wondering why the Tiger Mid and early are in the initial release, since they only have been seen during these 3 months period on the British & Canadian hold front.

As a matter of fact the only Tigers and Tigers II found in the S. Panzer Abteilungt 503 and the S.SS Panzer Abteilung 101 & 102 did not encounter the Americans forces during that period.

If we look at the release as an historical simulation the Tigers are coming early and the R-35 and 38 H are missing.

If we look at it as a simulation, then it is no more important, we can have a Tiger in a scenario against American troops like the one found, only God knows why ? (however, not very well depicted) in “Saving the private Ryan”. After all simulation are meant to recreate or create some specific condition and see how it goes.

If we admit that, then I wonder why we are continuing to argue on the value or the non value of troops and their materials opposed to others in an historical context.

But closer than the historical and or simulation matter, there is another one, a very important commercial decision that had to be made and Steve wrote about it :

“If we had to put EVERYTHING in the first release that saw action in the first week of combat in Normandy you could expect a release date of 2012. Nobody thinks that's a good idea, especially us, so that means that something isn't going to be in the initial release. French vehicles are definitely not the most important thing to include first round.”

So, let it be.

[Battlefront.com]

The term "Funnies" applies to vehicles which were specifically designed for the invasion of Normandy. I thought AVRE and Croc existed before then, but a quick check and the Croc was indeed one of the Funnies. AVRE was not. So I guess we had one exception to the no-Funnies rule for CMBO. Not surprising... we tend to have at least one exception to every rule

Steve

[Wengart]

However, CM:B4N is not only a simulation but a commercial product as well.

[Sequoia]

There's the German "funnies" as well that I think were used in Normandy such as the 47 auf 35r.

[Elmar Bijlsma]

No Panzer IIIs either.

But the way that CMx2 lets us mix forces does increase the chances of finding a decent stand in. That's something.

[Sequoia]

Yeah I noticed that too but CMBO didn't have the Pz III either. Still I'm hopeful because Steve once said that once the Western front is done (Including the Bulge Family) we'll have more vehicles than CMBO did and we might even get the Maus.

[Michael Emrys]

...we might even get the Maus.

And do what with it? Watch it get abandoned half-built at the factory?

Michael

[gibsonm]

No you could set it alight, watch the fire spread to the surrounding countryside and achieve a tactical victory as the Allies route off the map.

Of course that wouldn't save you from the Soviets coming on from the Eastern side.

[Michael Emrys]

No you could set it alight, watch the fire spread to the surrounding countryside and achieve a tactical victory as the Allies route off the map.

Butbutbut we were told in another thread that there would be no fires in BN!

:confused:

Michael

[gibsonm]

Yes but by the time you get to the Maus factory I'm sure we'll be up to CM:BN ver 5 or something (or does the OP want one parked on UTAH)?

[Sequoia]

Hey don't shoot the messenger. I can find the quote if you like. Personally I'd prefer the Sturmmörser Tiger or something else rare that was actually used (in the Bulge as I recall). My pet vehicle though is the Flak Pz 38. I plan to lobby for one in the third CMBN module.

[Elmar Bijlsma]

Hah! That Flak Pz 38 should go nicely with my favourite, the Crusader AA.

[Battlefront.com]

It's fun to see how many "I can't believe you're not including X vehicle" posts reference vehicles we never put into CMBO, CMBB, or CMAK. Seems people love the obscure stuff!

From our perspective when an entire Panzer Division has 6 of something on its books, that doesn't really scream to us "we have GOT to include this or the game falls apart". Never has, never will. Gnashing of teeth is just background music

The great thing about our strategy for the Battle Pack (last release of a Family) is we can include fairly rare and/or odd things because that will be the purpose of the release. The purpose of the releases before that is to portray specific things which, inevitably, require making a ton of common things.

Quick reality check... we started making models and textures for CM:BN in early 2008. Here it is 3 years later and we're still not fully finished with the list of stuff we've confirmed is in the game. I don't think you guys really understand how time consuming this work is.

Steve

[sawomi]

[...]The great thing about our strategy for the Battle Pack (last release of a Family) is we can include fairly rare and/or odd things because that will be the purpose of the release. [...]

Steve

That means there is hope for a Ratte.

[sfhand]

... I don't think you guys really understand how time consuming this work is.

Steve

That's a fair point... it reminds me of that line from "Sixth Sense".

"They believe what they want to believe, most of them don't even know they're dead."

I'm not going to dust-off any bookmarks to remind you of your small part in this phenomenon. Right now I'm just really happy that you guys keep on truckin', year in and year out, making and supporting great games that are clearly the best of their genre.

[Jaws]

Hey don't shoot the messenger. I can find the quote if you like. Personally I'd prefer the Sturmmörser Tiger or something else rare that was actually used (in the Bulge as I recall). My pet vehicle though is the Flak Pz 38. I plan to lobby for one in the third CMBN module.

About Sturmtiger. It was in CM al the time and even modded by someone we all know

[Wicky]

[ASL Veteran]

Combat Mission won't be complete until the T-28 is included

I can already see the scenario now - a platoon of T-28s encounters Hitler's convoy guarded by Maus tanks.

[Sequoia]

About Sturmtiger. It was in CM al the time and even modded by someone we all know

[Sequoia]

Quick reality check... we started making models and textures for CM:BN in early 2008. Here it is 3 years later and we're still not fully finished with the list of stuff we've confirmed is in the game. I don't think you guys really understand how time consuming this work is.

Steve

I understand. I think Dan once said the models are ten times more detailed than CMX 1. But, I'm looking at both the CMBN familiy and all its modules AND the entire Bulge family and all its modules for which I will be paying $240 and don't expect both families to be complete until three more years from now and yeah, I expect a lot of stuff. More different types of vehicles/guns etc than CMBO had when it's all done. And you're right, people do love the obscure stuff. I don't expect every thing that was ever made but I do expect some rare vehicles. Which ones? I know it's way too early for you to say but I don't think it's too late for us to lobby for our favorites. So HERE IS ANOTHER PLUG FOR THE FLKPZ 38!

[gibsonm]

There's "rare" and there's "non existant".

The Maus, what 1 half built hull captured by the Western Allies and the Soviets captured one.

The Ratte a concept with not a single working vehicle produced.

I suspect you need a production run of more than 1.5 before BFC / BTS are going to bother to invest time and effort into building it.

[Sequoia]

Just for interest I am including this list from Dan from anther thread:

Hey guys. Just for comparison I did some research on this myself based on a couple of sources, primarily the book Panzers in Normandy. Below is a summary of the info, though of course accuracy of these numbers is debatable.

Pz-IV - 422

Panther - 374

Stug - 205

Jpz-IV - 30

H-35 Assault gun - 24

Sdkfz 7/1 - 14

Flakpanzer 38t - 12

Pz-III - 12

Renault B-1 - 5

Lorraine Assault Gun - 3 (AT variety)

Tiger - 3

Befehlspanzer III - 3

Somuas S-35 - 3

Sdkfz 10/4 - 2

Tiger II - 0

JagdPanther - 0

These numbers represent the vehicles in Panzer units contacted by the US before they reached Failse.