Military Flavour Objects

[Shadow Stalker]

I know flavour objects of various kinds such as cows, haystacks and the like have been mention before and in my opinion these all have merit. The thing about flavour objects is that they produce realism, atmosphere and immersion in the game. In a game like CM this is a must. Don't get me wrong I think the devs and the community have done a fantastic job and I personally play CM at least a couple of times a week.

I was however playing ArmA the other day and what makes that game so enjoyable is the immersion and realism achieved by the flavour objects. As CM is a military based game I thought having miltary flavour objects would enhance this immersion. I was thinking along the lines of not just barbed wire fences and bunkers but more game changing static based flavour objects. These could be observation posts, radar dishes, radio communication towers, ICBM missle silos and fixed and mobile SAM or SCUD missle platforms. These elements could be incorporated into more realistic Army and Airbases. These types of bases for example could have static period based tanks, armoured vehicles, aircraft, helicopters and support equipment (fuel and ammo trucks, bombs etc).

These elements although static would in my opinion breath new life into the game that we all love. A couple of examples could be that CAS based support would not be be available until all SAM sites have been taken out. Another could be that bases containing ICBM silos would have to be taken in a specific time before the enemy has time to "launch"

These are just two examples off the top of my head the talented community could provide other more realistic scenarios I'am sure given what I have seen so far. As I'am not a modeler I'am not sure how difficult this would be to implement but it certainly something to consider to enhance CM for the future.

Hopefully I'am not alone on this.

[Paper Tiger]

You are certainly NOT alone

It is too late to see any of your suggested items in CMSF but they are worth considering for CMSF2 which will be set in a temperate environment. I've never played ArmA so i don't know what kind of game it is. But I think the real limit to what can be done in CMx2 is the number of polygons required to create the flavour object.

A couple of examples could be that CAS based support would not be be available until all SAM sites have been taken out.

A certain Beta tester would LOVE to see something like this too

[Wodin]

Funny enough I had a spell of playing ARMA 2 a couple of months back...at times it is superb but mainly with the super AI your dead before you can blink...anyway it turned out what I really wanted to play was CMSF...as I reinstalled and then thats when it dawned on me.

Though ARMA2 is an FPS it does remind me of CMSF...not sure why...but when I was playing ARMA 2 it scrathed an itch I had occasionally but the itch was finally scratched with CMSF. If you know what I mean....

[Boche]

I like the idea but not the examples, CMSF is about "small scale" battles, the sams would be eliminated either by air or other means. i dont think modern units attend this job.

my opinion

[Elmar Bijlsma]

What Boche says, though SAMs aren't really a biggie. But overrunning ICBM silos is a little too Iron Eagle 2.

However an artillery gun object, yeah, I think that would be a useful addition in any CMx2 game. And of course destroyed vehicles, but now with turrets able to be rotated by the scenario designer for a much better look to it.

And triggers would always be nice.

[undercovergeek]

why not have mission based scenarios like bad company or MW2 - havent played either but ive seen a round of games where some engineers have to blow the radio mast etc etc - instead of grab building a b c and d, destroy missile silo etc etc

[Jonny(FGM)]

Well you can abstract that to some extent. For example you could make a tall building with no windows or doors to be a radio tower.

I think missile silos/SAM sites are beyond the scope of CMSF (or CMSF2 when it arrives). I would imagine these would be jobs for the Air Force/Special Forces

[ForceMultiplier]

I'd like to see (morbid as it may be) bodies - non-civilian that is. If they could use the WIA/KIA graphic and add it as a flavor object, senarios about ambushes + rescue survivor missions would be more immersive. The issues I see from this is keeping track of "real" WIA/KIA's from the flavor ones, and having a way of picking the right type per scenarios (i.e. Marine/Army/British/Syian...) when making them.

[Jonny(FGM)]

Definitely for when Ostfront comes around, how else can we do pavlovs house? ; )

[LongLeftFlank]

Simple enough. Take units and put an AI controlled small IED on them. C3k did that in his contest-winning CMSF short. Works best in a baked scen so you're sure the ied is armed and used.

Let the bodies hit the floor let the bodies hit the floor....

[Shadow Stalker]

Thanks for your comments they make interesting reading,

I think some of you have misinterpreted my original post and have been a little hung up on my 2 examples. It wasn’t my intention whether these 2 examples do or do not fit into the CMSF universe; they were purely there as an example of how simple static military based flavour objects can bring about whole new mission designs and thus create more flexibility to scenario designers. I personally believe that these relatively simple changes (remember these are static objects so no animations will be needed) will ultimately benefit the entire community, as specific missions in Afghanistan or Iraq or some future theatre (Iran anyone) can be faithfully recreated. As Uncovergeek said even Modern Warfare or Bad Company types of missions could even be recreated. These simple military based flavour objects bring about new military design possibilities, “Instead of grab building a b c and d, destroy missile silo etc etc”.

There have also been some great suggestions by some members of the community. I too am all for flavour objects that include; destroyed vehicles, artillery gun objects and even Forcemultipliers suggestion of dead bodies, infact anything at all that increases the realism, atmosphere, immersion and most importantly the longevity of this great game.

[Lee]

Excellent idea, I totally agree, would greatly add to the immersion of CM battlefields. Will such objects and structures be included in CM: Normandy (radio towers, etc.)?

[panzermartin]

This would only be possible with community 3D modding. Unfortunately this is not in BFC plans.

[MeatEtr]

This is just more eye candy or bells & whistles really, not that important. Don't get me wrong though, more flavor objects would be great, everybody in their right mind wants more. But look at the high detail skin and models for the existing AFVs, it would be no small task to do justice to a downed Apache, F15 or whatever. So the select few scenarios that would feature them probably doesn't warrant the effort involved to make them. Bottom line, I don't think anybody wants to see other modules or games delayed so we can get more flavor objects in CMSF.

The example of Arma II really isn't a good one. These are two completely different genre of games. You can't get away with abstractions like this in Arma II because it's a FPS. Simple as that. (But it's an amazing game though, I love it!)

Although I do like the idea of having dead bodies as flavor objects, it makes sense for the same reason we already have KOed AFVs available.

[MikeyD]

I was all for (the smaller) military flavor objects then I reconsidered. Where would these jerrycans & ammo boxes and such most likely be placed? Around gun emplacements and troop positions of course! I know that's where I'd want to place them. BUT flavor objects don't comform to fog-of-war. Which means you could go hunting for that pile of ammo boxes and jerrycans at the far end of the map as an indication of where the enemy is. Relying on scenario designer discretion is not always a safe idea. I think half of the game complaints can be boiled down to "Please save me from my own bad habits!"

[c3k]

What would happen if I shot at a fuel-filled jerrycan with a...FLARE?!?

Ken

[Lee]

It would be cool if it burst into flames.

[Stagler]

It doesnt have to be SAM sites. Important radar structures or supply depots or whatever are all legitimate targets that would be seized in small unit actions.

[sawomi]

In CMSF 2 I would first like to see more civil objects like gas mains, gas tanks, fuel dispenser, billboards, wind engines, solar panels, hydroextractors, parkometers, satellite dishes, rail tracks, traffic booms, high voltage powerlines, trash boxes (the big ones with wheels), playgrounds, flower beds, animal food cratches, gazebos, memorials, gravestones, supermarket trolleys, intermodal containers......

[Erwin]

I would like to see hookers and leather-clad bikers lounging outside bars. But, I have a sinking feeling...