Jump to content

What is next - after the Brits?


Recommended Posts

Now that the British Forces module is out, what is next?

I read about a NATO module - what for? These guys were worthless in Kosovo ten years ago, and equally useless in Afghanistan today. Give me Canadiens, Ausies any day... Hey, how about Israelis - talk about some real world combat experience...

But, again, if shiny new gear (never used) is your fancy, maybe NATO Forces module will be better choice for the developers...

What do you think?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Half the new gear shown to us in a preview post for the NATO module is used by Canada, so they will be in the next module, at least partially. As for the other "worthless" nations, this game is purely tactical in its scope and doesn't really include politics and the associated strategic allocation of forces as problems that the player has to deal with (scenario designers can still limit forces and add strict victory conditions). It's a situation where IF the included NATO nations were fully committed to helping the U.S. and Britain militarily, how would they fight on the battlefield.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think this is offending to the NATO forces and the dead soldiers. I can not speak of forces from other states than Denamrk, as I am not fully up to date, but I can speak for the Danes.

Well to begin with former Yugoslavia. Danish Leopard 1 fougth and won the only tank vs. tank engament to speak off in those wars. I don´t think the anybody found them worthless. Follw the link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_B%C3%B8llebank. Would that be a good senario?

As off "But, again, if shiny new gear (never used) is your fancy, maybe NATO Forces module will be better choice for the developers..."

Yes, I would love to play Danes with Leo 2 A 5, Piranha, CV90--, recce sqp, inf coy in Helman or SF in Bora Bora, or Dutch or Spanish, or the French Legion or or...

They are NATO, they are on the ground and they are anything but shiny (never used) forces. If we are going to win this one lets pay proper respect to each other, please.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

These guys were worthless in Kosovo ten years ago, and equally useless in Afghanistan today.

I'm pretty sure this sentence is going to prevent you from getting any meaningful feedback in this thread, however honest you may be about your feelings on the subject.

That said, in an attempt to answer your question, the next step is indeed the NATO Module, and incorporates the German, Dutch, and Canadian armed forces.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Besides, the forthcoming CMSF module isn't pertaining to NATO itself but to the armed forces of nations which are members of NATO, namely Canada, Germandy, and the Netherlands.

Yeah, we've already been over the "why NATO? NATO is useless" question.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Baloohund,

In summer 2007 three of your Leos were in my base (Cerro Muriano, Córdoba), running some tests before deployment in Afghanistan. I had the luck to see them in the training camp and very close as well since every day they park them just in front of my unit's sheds, and the chance to speak with the Danish crews: I can say they were very hardworking and professional soldiers. I remember the Leos were painted in a white-grey-black scheme, and totally covered by some curious camouflage net, but I especially I found 'funny' the basha/tarpaulin, similar to those howdahs on the back of a war elephant, to protect the turret (and commander when open up) from the solar heat. I agree with you that Denmark would make a nice country to play with in CM:SF, as they would any other NATO or/and EU member plus our often allies from Oceania: Australia and New Zealand. And, of course, it would be great to have the Russians. And I'm still probably missing someone. So, many countries would make it in my wish list, as probably in other's here. Maybe in a CM:SF 2 set in a temperate climate? :) Until then, with no doubt, with me Battlefront has already a purchaser of the incoming NATO module.

Cheers,

Lomir

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Actually, I had always thought it would be more appropriate if the module would have had Canadians/Dutch/and Danes rather than Germans. Albeit, Denmark is a small country with a relatively small military, but I do recall seeing lots of information that included Danish commandos, armor, and other forces engaging in combat operations in Afghanistan (and Iraq?) over the years. While Germany's constitution (this is all gonna be brought back from hazy memory) restricts troops from interfering militarily with other countries unless the operation is multilateral and/or many other criteria are satisfied that make it okay to do so. On top of that, there are restrictions on roles the German military can take when participating in such operations (i.e. putting German troops into combat zones would be considered a very shocking move, or more likely, would not be considered at all). I still remember not too long ago when the U.S. first started lobbying Europe to send more troops to Afghanistan, there was some uproar in Germany over simply giving German bombers the okay to fly night bombing missions in the Southeast.

I understand that perhaps Germany has more to offer in terms of new equipment and TOE variation than Denmark, and if that's so than it would be a real stretch to complain about this damaging suspension of disbelief or something like that.

Edit: and now that I think about it, German forces probably appeal to more people than the Danes would.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's true that the setting is completely different, as are the circumstances of the actions, but that doesn't change the German constitution, although dirty bombs going off in Berlin or Munich or what have you would likely sway the Govt's and the public's will towards decisive military action.

Not to be crude, because every casualty is a very bad thing, but 30 killed in the span of 8 years (how long has ISAF been in-country?) is not unexpected for a peacekeeping-type operation. It would be important to note if that is 30 KIA or 30 soldiers who died in country. I used to check websites like icasualties.org regularly and you might be surprised how many deaths occur due to things like vehicles accidents (especially in Afghanistan's terrain), neglectful discharge, heat stroke etc. etc.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's true that the setting is completely different, as are the circumstances of the actions, but that doesn't change the German constitution, ...

Ok, let me rephrase:

CMSF is a game modelling a fantasy invasion of Syria. Afghanistan is a real life occupation. The German constituition only holds sway in one of those environments.

... you might be surprised how many deaths occur due to things like vehicles accidents (especially in Afghanistan's terrain), neglectful discharge, heat stroke etc. etc.

Or I might not.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Oh, I know YOU might not be surprised :) That was more of a general address to anyone who might be reading the post.

Did you find, by the way, what killed those 30 Germans, perhaps?

Edit: "Ok, let me rephrase:

CMSF is a game modelling a fantasy invasion of Syria. Afghanistan is a real life occupation. The German constituition only holds sway in one of those environments."

Exactly. That's why I ended my first post here the way I did. In the end it's not hard to believe that the Germans would partake in such a war, suspension of disbelief shouldn't be a problem.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Its been so long since I read the CMSF 'backstory' that I've almost forgot it.

Ah- I just looked it up, a UN sanctioned war after radioactive dirty bomb attacks across western capitals (the backstory leaves out the uncentive for Syria to commit such attacks). Germany is definitly the injured party, the war has international blessing. The enemy is literally on the border of Europe (Turkey is part of Europe now, yes?). One assumes the continent's rail networks are opened for unfettered troop deployment. It sounds like Germany's plan would be to assemble in southern Turkey, 'get the job done' as an act of self-defense then get out, leave the cleanup to you-know-who.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Now that the British Forces module is out, what is next?

I read about a NATO module - what for? These guys were worthless in Kosovo ten years ago, and equally useless in Afghanistan today. Give me Canadiens, Ausies any day... Hey, how about Israelis - talk about some real world combat experience...

But, again, if shiny new gear (never used) is your fancy, maybe NATO Forces module will be better choice for the developers...

What do you think?

So hero... in what war where you involved lately? Kind regards on from the Dutch/ Australian TF Uruzgan. I hope the parents of the soldiers killed or wounded there don’t read this forum.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I remember the Leos were painted in a white-grey-black scheme, and totally covered by some curious camouflage net, but I especially I found 'funny' the basha/tarpaulin, similar to those howdahs on the back of a war elephant, to protect the turret (and commander when open up) from the solar heat.

That camoflauge net is Barracuda net, or more a "suit" for tanks, its supposed to lover the thermal image of the tank but it was also noticed it helps keeping the heat out, so its mostly added as a air conditioner helper on the danish leopards in Afghanistan.

Our "heavy" support platoon of CV90s use the netting as well in Afghanistan just for that reason.

http://andersonchris.files.wordpress.com/2008/11/cv90_bq.jpg

/Thomas

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Turkey has always been part of Europe. In fact its the only country in the world that spans 2 continents.

Huh? What do you mean by that? Russia and Egypt come instantly to mind.

Btw. as an interesting semi-related aside, Turkey and Syria announced they'll be having joint maneuvres.

ALEPPO, Syria, Oct 13 (Reuters) - Syria said on Tuesday it would hold military exercises with Turkey, shortly after Turkey canceled maneuvers with Israel.

Ankara's decision, which was commended by Syria, revived fears of cooler relations between Israel and NATO member Turkey.

"We held our first joint land military exercise (with Turkey) last spring. And today we have agreed to do a more comprehensive, a bigger one," said Syrian Defense Minister Ali Habib, speaking at a news conference.

Turkey, a secular Muslim country, has been a key ally of Israel, but ties have been strained over Turkish Prime Minister Tayyip Erdogan's harsh criticism of Israel's three-week offensive in the Hamas-ruled Gaza Strip in December and January.

Both Turkey and Israel on Monday denied the cancellation of air force exercises scheduled for this week posed any threat to their long-standing bilateral ties and strategic interests.

In Washington, the U.S. State Department on Tuesday objected to Turkey's last-minute decision to exclude Israel from the exercise.

"We think it's inappropriate for any nation to be removed from an exercise like this at the last minute," said State Department spokesman P.J. Crowley.

But Syrian Foreign Minister Walid al-Moualem commended Ankara canceling of the exercises, in comments made during a high-level meeting of Turkish and Syrian ministers.

"We extremely welcome that decision. This decision is based on Turkey's approach towards Israel and reflects the way Turkey regards the Israeli attack in Gaza," Moualem told reporters in the Syrian city of Aleppo, where 10 Turkish minsters met 15 Syrian ministers to discuss energy and electricity projects.

European Union candidate Turkey, under Erdogan's Islamist-rooted AK party, has deepened its ties and influence in the Middle East, expanding Ankara's foreign policy beyond its traditional Western-oriented focus and strengthening ties with countries such as Syria and Iran.

Turkey denied any political motive behind the decision to "postpone" the exercise with Israel and called on Israel to display "common sense" in their statements.

Foreign Minister Ahmet Davutoglu on Tuesday repeated Ankara's position that it had not singled out Israel as a political punishment but had decided to call off the international stage of the military exercises, which would have also included the United States, Italy and NATO.

But he told reporters in Aleppo: "Our sensitivity on Gaza, East Jerusalem and al-Aqsa mosque are there. If these sensitivities are taken into consideration the peace process would resume in the region."

A senior government source told Reuters Israel had been excluded because of the Gaza offensive, saying it would have been inappropriate to carry out military exercises right now.

Once on the brink of war over Kurdish separatist rebels, Turkey and Syria have strengthened their commercial ties and have signed a bilateral visa-free agreement.

Israel, which has enjoyed close military cooperation with Turkey as well as bilateral trade worth nearly $3 billion, has urged Ankara to consider cooling ties with Palestinian Islamists Hamas and with Iran. Erdogan is due to visit Iran this month.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Now that the British Forces module is out, what is next?

I read about a NATO module - what for? These guys were worthless in Kosovo ten years ago, and equally useless in Afghanistan today. Give me Canadiens, Ausies any day... Hey, how about Israelis - talk about some real world combat experience...

But, again, if shiny new gear (never used) is your fancy, maybe NATO Forces module will be better choice for the developers...

What do you think?

Posts like this make me very creative in finding words for which I would be immidiatly banned from this forum if I would write them down here... With kind regards from Germany ;).
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Unfortunately, your content contains terms that we do not allow. Please edit your content to remove the highlighted words below.
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...