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Questions about the question marks


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Do the Question Markers give a spotting bonus to the AI or are they merely cosmetical?

It would still be great to get an answer for this question, because it would help saving some time that I now spend in order to provide my troops with spotting info before engaging.

Sadly enough, the absence of a clear "Why, of course the AI gets a spotting bonus!" leads me to believe that this is not the case. Which is fine, but I would like to that I should not hope for one when I send my scouts out!!

Best regards,

Thomm

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Well I thought I would try this one out as the syrians. As Steve said, I am pretty sure that the Americans wouldn't notice the difference due to their information sharing abilities being much better. Essentially, question marks DO provide a spotting bonus for your troops. If a unit has a question mark over an enemy, when the unit moves into LoS it will spot the enemy much faster.

My test showed some interesting stuff. There were two ridges 1200m from each other and hull down static tanks as the enemy.

If a T-72M moved into a hull down position on the ridge, the static tank always fired first. The firing signature would then reveal its position and the T-72M would fire back.

If the T-72M approached on a road, with no dust cloud, the two tanks would fire at each other almost simultainiously but with longer wait before firing as neither tank would spot each other very fast.

If the T-72M crew missed, backed down the ridge and appeared somewhere else, it would then get its shot off a lot quicker the next time due to the question mark.

The effect was the same if the crew was dismounted, took a peek over the ridge before returning to the tank and moving to hull down.

I am not claiming that this test was comprehensive or even very controlled (It was during a battle). However, it does seem to show that question marks are important for spotting and also that it is not a good idea to stay in one place for too long! I could set up a proper test if people want me to but I hoped that little bit of info helped!

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Thanks for this information!

Supposing that all question markers are "created equal" this would mean that units get a spotting bonus even if they did not spot the unit themselves.

However, this cannot be concluded from your report with absolute security, because the units in your scenario spotted for themselves and not for other units.

What you proved is that the unit's "memory" is working correctly, and for this you are to be commended!

Best regards,

Thomm

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Since im re-playing the poo mission (the last 6 times i played CMSF), I decided to give question marks another type of spotting bonus; preferably in the form of a 155MM Shell or HellfireII missile! :D It really pays off!!!

Seriously though, I now feel that; IF ROE allows, I have enough fire support AND I feel the enemy has more then a few lil conscripted buggers: I like my question marks to remain anonymous forever. I feel dumb that I even tried to observe the enemy when I know they were right at that spot. It never hurts to 'pave' the road a little bit.

I dont know about the spotting bonus though, but I now prefer not to know at all ;)

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  • 2 weeks later...

Bump ;);););)

So I had those M1s in "Milk Run", being aware of enemy ATGMs (question markers). They never actually spotted any of them. Did they at least receive a spotting bonus? Did they actively look for them? Is it only a player aid?

Question still stands ...

Best regards,

Thomm

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Bump ;);););)

So I had those M1s in "Milk Run", being aware of enemy ATGMs (question markers). They never actually spotted any of them. Did they at least receive a spotting bonus? Did they actively look for them? Is it only a player aid?

Question still stands ...

Best regards,

Thomm

I have to hand it to you and your persistence :). Maybe it can be tested by using a platoon of tanks with excellent C2 links and one where they are all independent. This would require a lot of testing and timing though.

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I have to hand it to you and your persistence :).

It is a central aspect of the new engine, plus it is - in essence - a yes/no question. So I am confident that there will be an answer some time. Until then, I can make a significant number of "Bump" post, before the thread gets locked up! :D

Best regards,

Thomm

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I'm making a major effort to understand C2 and the markers so any additional info on this will be most welcome.

I'll say this, I pre-ordered the game and have really not been able to get into it until 1.11. I'm not laying all the blame on the game though, chances are I just wasn't ready for the departure from CMx1 - read WWII - yet I find myself doing something I didn't really do in CMx1. I'm actually playing single player and enjoying it as much as pbem. I never thought I'd see the day when that would be, so congratulations to BF for that...

My biggest problem with singleplayer is that I have no honor and rationalize that it is okay to revert to saved games because I don't really understand the equipment and game system. A campaign with no saves allowed except one between battles would be most welcome (doing for me what I can't do for myself...)

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Sorry for the delay. I didn't want to answer from memory (this was coded 2.5 years ago) without double checking with Charles first. He's had a few things on his plate lately, so it took a couple of jabs to get confirmation out of him. Turns out I remembered it correctly, but I'm still glad I double checked :)

a) Are the Question Markers only visual aids for the player or do they really give a spotting bonus?

They give a spotting bonus, but only for a short while (i.e. when they are relatively "new"). Old "?" marks - which start to fade - don't give any spotting bonus.

B) Do Question Markers give the AI information about the unit type the marker represents? Does this influence AI behavior?

No. Remember, giving the AI information does nothing unless the AI is programmed to interpret and then act on that information. Interpreting is a very difficult thing to get an AI to do well.

c) Does the AI actively look for and try to identify Question Markers?

No, because once again that would involve a level of AI programming that wouldn't be worth the effort. If something appears as a "?" the AI is aware that something is there, but that's as far as it goes. Through the AI's other actions the identity is either revealed or it isn't. There's no special effort to do carefully considered "recon" which, in turn, other AI decisions are based on.

Steve

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