Interest Gauge-Whole New Type of Campaign

[Field Marshal Blücher]

CM:SF has, like many other wargames, several problems when it comes to simulating battlefield reality. Most of these are specific to each wargame, but all wargames have one problem in common: The player ALWAYS knows that there will be a significant amount of resistance to what he/she is attempting to do, which is only infrequently the case in the real world. For instance, I end up thinking, "OK, this is a mission in the CM:SF Marines campaign. Therefore, it's going to be tough and bloody," regardless of what the briefing actually says.

What I propose to do is to make a mini-campaign based on the battle of An Nasiriyah, Iraq in 2003. I will follow the story of either 1/2 Marines, the "Timberwolves," or 2/8 Marines, "America's Battalion," whichever I think is more campaign-worthy after doing more research. But the difference is that I will have the player conduct all or most of the operations actually conducted by the Marines--even the ones where they were historically opposed by very few or no insurgents. The idea is that the player will begin to act more like real commanders.

I know that I would enjoy this, but it would be a lot of work involved, and I was wondering how many of you would like to play such a campaign?

BTW, just so you all know: I'm very busy and it would probably be at least months before I would be able to finish this project.

[BigDork]

I would definitely play something like this. It would definitely make you play a more cautiously and would add a nice level of suspense. You wouldn't know if you were walking into a cake-walk or a city full of very angry Iraqis.

[Inkompetent]

I'd love this. What is important is what *can* happen. Not what actually will happen!

Just as an example when playing Armed Assault I was on a three hours long saboteur mission in heavy, pouring rain and thunder. Intel said there would be enemy tanks and infantry around, and we were to blow a bridge just at their ass. Didn't spot a single enemy during the whole mission, but the tension in it made it one of the best missions I've ever played in Armed Assault, and I've got many hundreds of hours of serious, more or less mil-sim missions in my back pocket that it competes with.

[Sivodsi]

Actually it seems like the second mission of the out-of-the-download Marines campaign is a lot like this!

I think you would have to put huge sized labels explaining the point of the whole campaign, otherwise you will get a lot of "huh? This is boring" kind of remarks.

Personally, I'm all in favor of it though!

[Chainsaw]

I for one would both love it and play it!

[Cpl Steiner]

This would get my vote too.

[Field Marshal Blücher]

I think you would have to put huge sized labels explaining the point of the whole campaign, otherwise you will get a lot of "huh? This is boring" kind of remarks.

I agree, I'd have to plaster all sorts of things all over CMMODs. ACHTUNG! THIS IS NOT A NORMAL CAMPAIGN! CUIDADO!

[Homo ferricus]

oh yeah, i'm in. This is something i have also privately thirsted for, you think radio chatter and new reload sounds make for great immersion? This kind of campaign is really what will make one feel like a true military commander, the level of uncertainty in entering a situation in this hypothetical campaign is what will really keep you awake with tension during scenarios, as the arma player mentioned.

In fact, i live about 40 minutes north of you, Field Marshal Blücher, if you need any kind of local, man-on-man playtesting and feedback or help.

[teeps]

Sounds good to me too.

[G B Scurlock]

Count me in as well.

[Martin Krejcirik]

But the difference is that I will have the player conduct all or most of the operations actually conducted by the Marines--even the ones where they were historically opposed by very few or no insurgents. The idea is that the player will begin to act more like real commanders.

I'd love it, I find usual scenarios too tough.

[Aloko Mac]

damn This is a very good idea !

Im in.....

[handihoc]

Yep, I'd be up for it.

[Mikkey]

good idea Blücher!

[c3k]

The expectation of the player is critical. As others have mentioned, you'd need to set very clear warnings regarding the campaign.

I'm currently playing a USMC scenario: I have wiped out all the enemy. Now, I'm busy searching every single house in a crowded little town. Why? Because I have 1:04 left in a 1:30 scenario, and NOTHING is happening. After 10 boring WeGo turns, I saved, then ceasefired. I was puzzled by my lack of victory. I then dug into the editor for the scenario, only to find that apparently sometime in the next 30 minutes the enemy will get reinforcements. Oh. If only I had a fast forward button.

The frustration stemmed from a lack of knowledge regarding the game ending parameters and when they would be achieved.

Good luck!

Ken

[hoolaman]

Not to be too contrary, but I would find a campaign like this (realistically) boring. I have played missions with almost no resistance, and you slowly and deliberately pick your way forward only to find you have been sitting in front of your computer for an hour and are not having fun yet.

Don't forget too, a similar sense of unreality happens within each mission as you push through the map and see less and less resistance. Seeing only a small amount of map and calculating that you have killed most of formation X, you begin to pick up the pace in a way that no real world commander would have the luxury to do.

Very clever reinforcements would be needed to create a sense of a several day campaign over a small area, and CMSF is not so great at long missions because programming the AI plans gets less likely to match the player's actions.

Points to ponder perhaps...

[Lanzfeld]

I would love a campaign like this Blucher. The "not knowing" is one of the best and most realistis parts! Even a cakewalk can be very exciting.

[Taki]

I think you can have the same Immersion and uncertanty Feeling with a solid Briefing and good Timing of Reinforcments. There should be some "lesser Tension/Action" Maps involved but not so many. Small Tactical Engagements are also challenging.

With a good Briefing or maybe wrong Inteldata in the Brifing you can do the Trick i guess.

[Fenix]

Count me in! A medium to big sized town with those parameters would make a great time, at least i would enjoy it.

[Field Marshal Blücher]

All right. Looks like there's enough interest around here. I think I am going to start working on it, although, as I said, be aware that it's going to take quite a while.

[Chelco]

Great idea. Count me in.

[Splinty]

It sounds pretty interesting.

[19Kyle72]

This is more than intriguing to me. Having once been an avid fan of OFP, I once helped to translate the instruction manual for an amazing mod that goes by DAC (Dynamic AI Creator). Basically, following guidelines stipulated by the mission designer, the DAC mod randomly generated sets of waypoints, assigned patrol types, assigned various levels of communications (units with electronic communication systems could call for reinforcements almost immediately, while those without would have to hoof it back till they were in shouting range of backup), unit types (including vehicles and aircraft) and set them up within a mission. The variables as defined by the mission editor could be very broad, or more tightly narrowed. The point is, the player never knew what he was going to get whenever he restarted a mission.

I'm guessing that Silola has probably contributed something along these lines to ArmA, but I wouldn't know. That title was released in its alpha stage, and I'm not about to pay full price or even half price for an alpha release, no matter who makes it (I bought CMSF for approx. $6 so I'm consistent on this point).

I'm an advocate for believable tension, and I happen to agree with hoolaman's astute observation that I all but missed that once a player wipes out "so" many units, he knows that the mission's practically over, so he takes risks real people in such situations wouldn't. The trick is to keep players from pulling stuff like this, and constantly keep them on their toes so that smart tactics applied at ALL times is the norm, and not the exception. It would be pretty creepy to patrol an urban environment with absolutely nothing going on, yet expecting something to develop.

It's a shame that a release hasn't been made with unlimited mission time. That clock is a measure for players as well. Nothing may go on for a long time, and yet as the clock ticks down players will be expecting something to happen soon. If there wasn't a time limit, then the goals could be more defined by achieving the objectives, which might be as simple as patrolling from point Alpha to point Beta. However long it takes you to get there doesn't matter, and the lack of a clock would disarm a player from preparing a perfect defense to an ambush. Maybe some missions would allow the player to get to point Beta without a single round being fired.

Anticlimatic? Maybe, but not for me. Handled in the right fashion, such a campaign would keep my fingernails chewed down. I'd certainly love to play through a campaign such as this.

Good luck to you on your endeavors, and "thanks" in advance for all of your hard labors on our behalf.

[Rayniz1691]

i'd play this. i'm a huge fan of the USMC and one of the main reasons why I don't play as much CMSF is because lack of COIN missions. This will definitely be a favorite.