Cobra CAS footage, aka the Syrian armored forces should just go home.

[akd]

Why even try to hide?

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2184649266159259417&q=gunship%22

[Colin]

no results from that link anyway.

also not a real topic. please post some substance rather then just a link to someone elses stuff.

do you have any insight beyond this? we are all aware that the US has some technology that is far superior when compared to it's enemies.

[flamingknives]

Why try to hide? the time it buys you may just be enough for over-confident chopper pilots to fly into one of the many, many SAMs or AAA platforms that the Syrians have.

[Dillweed]

The cobra is a vietnam era system too. The new longbow apaches? Forget it.

FK is right tho, while helicopter can bring exellent troop mobility and really kick ass firepower they are exeedingly vulnerable. Doubly so for MOUT. Just think mougudishu.

On a completly unrelated note, one of my DSs in basic was one of the ranger on the ill fated opertaion Gothic Serpant. I had the good fortune of watching some dullard from alabama who did not know his history take a swing at him during week 1.

[Elmar Bijlsma]

Originally posted by flamingknives:

Why try to hide? the time it buys you may just be enough for over-confident chopper pilots to fly into one of the many, many SAMs or AAA platforms that the Syrians have.

Why would Syrians rely on AAA platforms when they can use an aged farmer with a rusty rifle? From the accounts out of Iraq this sufficed.

Now that I mention it I have gotten curious if this fearsome AA method will be modelled in any way. Probably doesn't need to be as helicopers and such AFAIK won't be included on the map.

[flammenwerfer]

That German industrial music makes me want to invade Poland or something.

[Gpig]

Heh heh, yeah. It's total chopper porn. Turn down the volume.

There's some pretty amazing footage in there. Trying to take out that Big Mortar with the MG. Blowing up tank after tank after AFV after truck and building.

All the vehicles were stationary. Hatches open (that I could tell). Seemed they were out of action PRIOR to being blown to smithereens.

Gpig

[akd]

Originally posted by Colin:

no results from that link anyway.

also not a real topic. please post some substance rather then just a link to someone elses stuff.

do you have any insight beyond this? we are all aware that the US has some technology that is far superior when compared to it's enemies.

The conclusion of the Gulf War I experience was that the Iraqi Army's fatal error was attempting to engage the Coalition forces in open terrain warfare and that if they had a attempted a more "dissimilar" approach in the use of their armor, they might have had more success.

The video is just visual statement about the utter worthlessness of armor in an environment where the U.S. can employ its air weapons and surveillance systems with impunity. AFVs are getting nailed deeply dug-in, well-camouflaged in dense cover, even under bridges, probably before ground forces have even made contact.

[flamingknives]

Those AFVs weren't really fighting back and nor was anyone else. A good number of those TOWs barely came under command before hitting the target, which puts it at a few hundred metres. The Syrians know that they can't fight on anything like equal terms with the Israeli Air Force, much less the USAAF, so they have switched to Ground Based Air Defence (GBAD).

Anyone trying to play Air Cav in Syria is going to run out of toys really quickly.

[SgtMuhammed]

I see the Zunis are still as wildly inacurate as ever.

Interesting film but nothing new. You could show the same stuff from a firing range.

[John D Salt]

Originally posted by akd:

Why even try to hide?

Ask the Serbs.

If you can find them.

All the best,

John.

[Speedy]

Damn they are still flying those antiques!!!

[skelley]

Those are the Upgraded Super Cobras...not the Vietnam era Cobras.

Colin, why do you get so angry when somebody posts something a link like this. We all know you are against the war, and apparently no big fan of the U.S., so why don't you just leave it alone and let people post what they choose. Feel free to post what ever you find interesting as well.

[akd]

Hell, if nothing else, maybe the devs will find it interesting for clearly demonstrating the effect of a TOW on an armored vehicle. Like 10-15 examples in the vid.

[Battlefront.com]

Excellent footage. One thing to ask yourself is... why is there so much debate about the effectiveness of CAS? We've had that debate here a number of times, both in WWII and current context. Whatever its failings are, it is clear than when it works it works VERY well. There must have been 50 or more vehicles clearly destroyed by Cobras alone. In one part three MBTs were killed in a row all within seconds of each other without any breaks in the footage. I doubt very much that the Marines facing those MBTs were thinking CAS was a waste of time.

BTW, as it so happens I'm reading a section of Ambush Alley where the Cobras are coming in and doing their thing. The Marines were in awe of what they did.

Steve

[juan_gigante]

I was surprised by how much recoil was on the 25mm chain gun. There's one bit where the gunner goes full-auto on a target that's quite a ways off, and rounds are going absolutely everywhere. I was surprised that they didn't just pop it with a TOW. I'm pretty sure it's a 25mm, at least. I might well be wrong.

[Nidan1]

Originally posted by John D Salt:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by akd:

Why even try to hide?

Ask the Serbs.

If you can find them.

All the best,

John. </font>

[c3k]

Steve,

If you're reading "Ambush Alley", regarding Air Force CAS and integration with ground forces, the communications and clearance and target identification procedures are written about and highlight the problems still facing effective CAS.

Interesting book.

Regards,

Ken

[Dinger]

CAS is expensive. It requires a huge supply train. This is especially true for aircraft. I remember seeing figures for the early days of the Korean war, during the drive the Yalu. They stationed one F-51 squadron in Pyongyang, and it used by weight something like 40-50% of the weekly supplies shipped to an army division -- and those were prop aircraft.

Rotary CAS has its role, but fixed wing stuff -- it's a question of what's most the most useful allocation of resources, and having guys loitering around on call in a stack, or send them off to knock down stuff beyond the point of ground contact.

[Splinty]

Originally posted by juan_gigante:

I was surprised by how much recoil was on the 25mm chain gun. There's one bit where the gunner goes full-auto on a target that's quite a ways off, and rounds are going absolutely everywhere. I was surprised that they didn't just pop it with a TOW. I'm pretty sure it's a 25mm, at least. I might well be wrong.

On a SuperCobra it's a 20mm tri-barrel Gatling gun if I remember correctly.

[akd]

Originally posted by juan_gigante:

I was surprised by how much recoil was on the 25mm chain gun. There's one bit where the gunner goes full-auto on a target that's quite a ways off, and rounds are going absolutely everywhere. I was surprised that they didn't just pop it with a TOW. I'm pretty sure it's a 25mm, at least. I might well be wrong.

Helicopters don't make the best gun platforms, and helicopter chin turrets even less so. They make up for the lack of accuracy with rate of fire.

Original link appears to be dead, so here is the download:

http://www.militaryvideos.net/torrents/cobra_gunship_in_iraq.avi.torrent

[ November 29, 2005, 10:08 AM: Message edited by: akd ]

[Speedy]

Quite a few vids on that military videos site, was amused by the "Blackwater in Baghdad"? video of the little choppers at play.

Just a warning to people here some of the videos on that site (www.militaryvideos.net)are quite graphic (in particular one of the vids in the marines in fallujah zip file).

[Battlefront.com]

John,

Ask the Serbs.

If you can find them.

Different ball of wax entirely. That was a strategic bombing campaign (of the modern variety), not CAS. There were no US forces on the ground pusing the Serbs to move, though for sure there were some Special Forces teams in very specific locations. This means that the Serbs had the advantage of the "disperse, park, and hide" option. They also had the option to leave out decoys to fool aerial and sat recon. As you suggest, it worked very well in the Serb's favor.

But what would have happened if a NATO ground force went in and forced the Serbs to move around? They would have lost the carefully constructed camouflage and been far more likely to have been spotted. And when spotted it would have been more likely to be on the ground and focused on those enemy vehicles most threatening (i.e. ones in blocking positions and ones moving to blocking positions). The results would have been much closer to the Cobra footage than what actually happened.

Steve

[Peter Cairns]

Steve,

On the other hand the Serbs were doing there best to avoid detection and ehgagement. The extent to swich the Cobras or Apache's would have been able to do what they did with an effective AD system is difficult to judge,

Peter.

[Colin]

Originally posted by skelley:

Those are the Upgraded Super Cobras...not the Vietnam era Cobras.

Colin, why do you get so angry when somebody posts something a link like this. We all know you are against the war, and apparently no big fan of the U.S., so why don't you just leave it alone and let people post what they choose. Feel free to post what ever you find interesting as well.

It has absolutely nothing to do with a political standpoint.

On every forum I have ever posted on, it is considered bad form to post a link to another page with no content to your post.

Also we all know where to get videos of fighting. This really isn't anything new. We don't need an M1A2 video and a thread titled 'why does the rest of the world even make tanks anymore?!??!' followed by three 'wow look at that ownage' posts.

Thanks for the link though, it's working now. What sort of rotorcraft will we see in CM:SF? Obviously CAS will be simulated to some extent but what about the things like Kiowa's or Pave Hawks? Obviously not out of scope as if you call for a rocket strike there are a few vehicles that could deliver. The UH-60G is also up-armored and can be fitted with 50's and a minigun and would make for a nasty CAS surprise.

Any thoughts BFC?