We Should All Support CMSF

[Zemke]

I apologize to everyone. I was pissed, mad, and wanted to fight, I wanted to kick and scream, and break things like a little a kid who didn't get his way......I can admit all that, (hard to hide when you post five or six different times and places on the BF forums). I had only learned about CMSF that very day from an online CM gaming buddy, I was a bit.....emotional after looking forward to this game for a long time. However, after a bit of reflection and thought, I think a WAIT AND SEE attitude is best, (Althought I still think Syria is a poor theater choice).

Of course in order to determine if CMSF is what I hope it is, I will purchase it. If nothing else to support BF sales, so I can get what I really want, a WWII game, (and hopefully an Eastern Front game someday).

We all need to continue to push the PBEM issue. PBEM will allow a much broader following, which will mean a richer enviroment for all WWII tatical war-gamers out there. I am not a programer, but I do know that without PBEM there will be a massive number of people who will not be able to enjoy the game the way they want to.

The planned muli-play ability is really exciting to me. It will allow muli-play TCIP battle. Now players will have to coordinate TOGETHER, plan TOGETHER, work TOGETHER, and cross talk as the operation unfolds. The Principle of War, Unity of Command comes to mind. Players should allow one guy to plan the operation, while they coordinate and cross-talk during the operation to execute the plan. It they don't, they risk failure in the face of more united and coordinated opponents. WOW just like real life!!!

I would also like to see the inclusion of "on board" Battalion HQ units. I am positive that many of us will take the game to Battalion and Brigade Level operations, (if we can). To support this idea....Battalion HQ units are normally located within 1-2K from the area of contact with main force units (not recon and security unit however). Having more than two companies under one command (You), is a Battalion level fight. Battalions are tactical HQ units, and as defined by US Army Doctrine. Operations at Brigade and below are considered tactical operations. So I hope that BF includes Battalion HQ units, or at least some game modeling that reflects their influence, (good and bad). (Yes I have read BF's ideas on Battalion HQ units and their inclusion or not on the game map)

My appologies to all who were offended in any way. (Even the ones who attacked me personally.) My primary hope is there continues to be a dynamic and exciting war-gaming community out there. One interested in contemporary and historical events. Also Companies like BF continue to profit from, and produce great games.

Anyway Gents, I am offically CHANGING my stance on CMSF from opposition, to one of wait and see. I plan to buy CMSF, if nothing else to support BFs efforts, for future releases. Who knows I may find the Syrian "Front" fun and exciting.

[RMC]

Your conversion to the one true faith is a wise move. Unfortunately we have to kill you now before you recant.

[Abbott]

Do you know how to break up a Syrian game of Bingo?

Holler B--------52!

[flammenwerfer]

I just heard CMX2-WWII western Europe 1944/45, will only be playable as the Free-French.

[Kwazydog]

Zemke thanks for the support and as Ive recently said elsewhere I apologise if my comments were out of line also. It been a long week on the forums, hehe, but I think that things are starting to get back on track.

Hopefully in time we may see some of the others whom were dead against a modern setting at least give it a chance and see if they can find it as interesting and challanging as we feel it will be .

Dan

[Midnight Warrior]

Zemke,

Way to go! It takes a big person to admit when they are wrong.

[Salkin]

Originally posted by Midnight Warrior:

Zemke,

Way to go! It takes a big person to admit when they are wrong.

What he said !

//Salkin

[J Ruddy]

Cool Zemke - it takes a big person to apologise publicly. I'm not sure if you were 'wrong' per se, but whatever message you had was hidden behind some serious agressive, mean, obnoxious just plain nasty posts. If you kept that up, BFC would have had to hire you to moderate the forum...!

I probably took a shot at you, I know you had a huge target painted on your forehead - so I guess I'm sorry if I was a dick. It happens sometimes. (Who am I kidding, it happens all the time - damn I would have made a good officer...)

[ October 14, 2005, 05:57 PM: Message edited by: J Ruddy ]

[Pvt. Ryan]

Oh, great! Now you are saying he is fat. Leave the guy alone!

[Migo441]

I'll hitch onto this thread with a quick $.02 along Zemke's lines. When I first heard about the setting, etc... I was disappointed and felt crabby and a little angry about it. WWII would have been my preference by FAR and I'd favor 5-6 other settings above modern day U.S. vs. Sryia.

In my initial angry state, I estimated the chances that I'd buy CM:SF at 80%. You can see how angry I was! But now, after keeping up with the talk on the message boards, I've "come off the ledge" so to speak. The odds that I'll buy CM:SF are up to 100% and, yes, I'm even a little excited.

The greatest tactical combat sim promises to get even better! I can't wait for the demo so we can really see what we're getting with the second generation engine. Speaking of that, does anyone have even the most tenuous estimate of when the demo might be released? Next Summer? No clue? When it's ready?

[YankeeDog]

FWIW:

Speaking as one of those who was most critical regarding your posts, I'm So sorry if I was a bit harsh. Actually, I think our viewpoinst are not that different. I, too am very ambivalent about the modern setting. But I'm willing to give it a try.

And, if nothing else, I figure that this means that, when BFC moves back to WWII, the major bugs will be worked out, and the engine will *really* kick @ss. . .

Basically, I see it as win-win. Learn a bit about modern tactics and weapons, but if I don't like the demo, I still get better WWII sim a little further down the pipe. The CMC they just announced today will keep me entertained until then. No complaints here.

Cheers,

YD

[Battlefront.com]

Count another hat tipped in your direction. As I have said over and over again... we understand why so many people are upset about moving to modern, just as we are obviously not surprised to see so many people excited about it. Modern warfare has not received much attention from serious wargames and therefore it is understandable that people are skeptical. Heck, we were too for a long time. The old "nobody has tried it before because it isn't possible" doubts and all of that. But we think we figured out what these other games haven't worked or developers haven't tried. We've targeted key parts of the simulation to correctly portray, as best as possible, these elements. Simulate the elements correctly and the tactics follow. That is how we did CMx1, and it is why it worked. Hopefully we've done our homework this time too

Steve

[Renaud]

The way I look at it, if you don't like the Syrian/UN scenario, just forget that and play the game as the amazing modern tactical combat simulator that it will surely be! Pretend you are in Iran, Iraq, Africa, Ft. Irwin/NTC or wherever suits your fancy.

If you were hoping for WWII as the first CM2 release, think on the positive side: CMSF will get all the bugs out and perfect the system for the WWII release. I mean, look at the improvements between CMBO and CMBB...night and day.

[panzer mike]

He Zemke. I totally agree with you. I will also wait and see, although I think I will probably end up buying the bugger Gotta support BFC or else they will run out of money to develop my much anticipated return to ETO ! Can't have that now can we ?

I hope the atmosphere on the board will quickly return to normal without all these hot headed posts. I mean, after all we are a peaceful bunch of people right ? We only pick fights with pixelated enemies !

Jolly good show Zemke !

[AdamAnt2]

Yes Zemke,,,We are glad to have u back on our side,,,the guys who are followers of BF.com are a great bunch and everything always works out for the best ,,we know it will be a great game cause every new game they release only get better and better ,by the time the WW2 setting is done it will only be more polished,,so lets have fun in the meantime,,

[spartan1]

I will always admire people like Zemke when they openly admit a mistake.

To tell you the truth I was also feeling like him when I discovered the new game. I said to my self I would not buy it, although I hoped to go well for Battlefront.

Now after some days I changed my mind to wait and see. Lets have a demo anf try it and if we like it, buy it.

Lets hope that all goes well for Battlefront. They deserve it after so many great games they have given us.

PS Till the new game I will buy also the new CMC for CMBB.

[kmead]

In a sad way it been rather amusing reading through all the posts full of hand wringing and other poor behavior. Although a hypothetical future (current) war is not where I expected CM would go, if the past is any way to judge the future we likely have a lot to look forward to.

Bring it on when its ready and I am sure we will be buying. (presuming there is a OSX version of course)

When is the demo demo going to be released? I look forward to the night of the refresh monkeys...

[Stavka_lite]

For crying out loud! All this forgiveness and not harsh word anywhere. I am in the right forum? . CM:SF = Combat Mission:Smoochy Face

P.S. I can't wait to see a TOW streak across the screen.

[Midnight Warrior]

Not to change the topic but a funny thought occured to me. You know what would be bit ironic is that after CM:SF comes out (plus perhaps a follow on module or two) that people complain when BFC goes back to doing WWII....How can I fight tanks without my ATGMs? My ATR shots just bounce off harmlessly! How can I locate the enemy without my UAV's?

On the other hand (in a slightly more serious vein) I am betting that the insights gained for doing a modern war will pay dividends in spades when BFC does go back to doing WWII in that even though the hardware may be different many of the principles will still apply. What I find particularly interesting is that there is such a wealth of information from all the recent vets on the forum. This access to such expert help alone ought to make CM:SF of winner. Couple that with BFC proven track record for making the best tactical wargames in the the world and one can hardly help getting excited about CM:SF even if one is a dyed in the wool WWII fanatic. Whether modern combat is one's cup or tea or not CM:SF looks like it is going to be one awesome cup of tea! I, myself, am still in the process of working through my own WWII witdrawal sypmtoms but at the same time the more I read about CM:SF and look at the new technologies hat it brings to the wargaming community the more intriging it becomes.

Edit. clarified wording a bit.

[ October 16, 2005, 12:29 PM: Message edited by: Midnight Warrior ]

[Zemke]

I appreciate all the forgiveness, I am interested to see how realistic it is. I think it is important to support the gaming business, and in particular this new Combat Mission game as I have trully loved playing the others so much.

[Dr.Love]

Say baby, if everyone would just wait for the demo before lining up to condem or to make sweet love to the new game things would be much more free and easy up in here.

All you need is love, awwwwww ya.

[Jim Harrison]

If what I heard was right and the WWII mod is small unit tactics with no tanks, then I fear the wailing and gnashing of teeth will commence again. This of course was a rumor tied to someone's interp of what Steve has said in some post???

[Seanachai]

Originally posted by Zemke:

I appreciate all the forgiveness, I am interested to see how realistic it is.

Repentance without Atonement is lip service.

In the tradition of the Yakuza, we'd all like to know which finger-tip you've severed, packaged, and shipped to BFC.

Also, we'd like a nice jpeg posting of the results.

As one 'big, big freak' put it: It's all about the blood...

[Sixxkiller]

Its sad that all these people are now acting like a defeated Syrian when they finally realize they wont be getting thier way. Maybe a scenario designer can design something that inks this into history??? Maybe call it Battle of the Whine.

And Battlefront, arent you guys happy you didnt decide to make CMx2 an RTS in the year 3559? Can you imagine the backlash you would have gotten then?

-Ray

[Nicdain]

Back home from a 6 days mission, my first reaction to CM:SF was surprise, since I would have bet on WWII ETO.

But after reading all Steve's explanations I can only admit that this choice is evidently the best: it is strategically (in terms of marketing) perfect, and I'd say more: it is well chosen in respect to WWII buffs since it allows to test the new engine on a non-WWII theatre (modern = more complex) in order to optimize it later for a WWII one. Similarly, CMBB and CMAK were far better than CMBO.

So, I fully support BF.C work and will surely pre-order CMSF as it will be available.

I hope to try a demo as soon as possible (Christmas?)