Keep PBEM!!!!!!!!!!

[Scipio]

Originally posted by Elmar Bijlsma:

They dont WANT to. They might HAVE to. With all the extra goodness they are putting in, filesizes may become excessive for sending through mail.

Everyone here seems to believe that PBEM files MUST be bigger in CM2 then in CM1. Why?

[Elmar Bijlsma]

Originally posted by Scipio:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Elmar Bijlsma:

They dont WANT to. They might HAVE to. With all the extra goodness they are putting in, filesizes may become excessive for sending through mail.

Everyone here seems to believe that PBEM files MUST be bigger in CM2 then in CM1. Why? </font>

[General Bolt]

[reverse psychology] Everything will be fine if they dump PBEM. [/reverse psychology]

[Scipio]

I see.

Well, you can digitalise a movie by scanning each single image and save it to disk in an uncompressed file format, meaning you will have some Exabyte of data.

You save the same movie in MPEG-2 on a DVD.

Of course you have some loss of detail - but watching DVDs is still great, isn't it?

Fact is, the movie files are the real big files. Of course, there will be much more details in the new engine, but how much info about each single unit must be avaiable during the 'action phase' as it is now? That's what we finally talking about, right?

I mean, how often do someone really have a look on each of his units to see if and how the moral does change during the battle, just as example? Of course, there will someone pop up and cry, but seriously, this wouldn't keep somebody away from playing the game.

But I guess it would keep a lot of people away if the PBEM feature should be cut out. I'm not sure if I would play to the same extend as I do now if I can only play by Internet (I never play the AI).

The problem here is just, I don't have very often the time to play a full battle over some hours. I have two jobs. I'm already happy when I can keep my 5 or 6 PBEM games going each day. But if I miss to answer a turn for one or two days, it's not a problem. If I can not play PBEM anymore, I can not keep on playing at all. Well, maybe that's just my personal problem. But I have heard about people with families, or friends, or other real life stuff...

[ August 28, 2005, 01:01 PM: Message edited by: Scipio ]

[KG_Jag]

Put simply PBEM is a critical feature in accomplishing human vs. human play. I am in the great state of Texas and am playing a fellow in New Zealand and another fellow in the UK. With such great time differences and the demands of real life, we simply would not be able to play one another without PBEM. I would rather lose some additional features over dropping PBEM.

At KG we have very large CMBB multiplayer games--both in terms of map size and number of forces. As I recall the files can grow to as large as 3 MB. We have not yet had problems sending them back and forth in an unzipped format. Of course hi-speed internet is a big plus, but is not required to play these large games.

[huhrlass]

keep the pbem i like it

[Pete7777]

Hi Guys

I'm not normally one to log into forums, just don't have the time with work & the family.

However.. I just saw this thread & could not sit by with-out joining up to comment.

Have been playing war games for 30 plus years.. Beyond a shadow of a doubt, the CM series is the best tactical war game I have ever played... bar none!!. Simply put, the success of this game rests on quite a few different things. The thing that really gives this game the edge over all others is the way the turn system works & its compatibility with playing play by e-mail.

I honestly think that if the play by e-mail feature it removed from the game, it would translate into a large loss of games sales. CM has a huge grass roots following of players like myself who only use pbem. I can't think of any other game that has resided on my hard drive for so long.

Everything else I'm hearing about CMX2 sounds great.

For CMX3... I would really like to see a strategical & combined tactical game, that would be really cool. Well, lets get CMX2 done first

CMX1 was (& still is) a bloody brilliant game, please don't drop the "pbem" ball on CMX2!

Pete

[Cirrus]

Originally posted by Elmar Bijlsma:

Because.

About the profiling of CM gamers in that other thread linked above. Has there been some kind of gallup where those playtypes has been profiled (solo/internet/pbem)? I can say that since I've purchased these games I have played zero solo plays. I would have betted that solo playing in CM is not very popular...

And the fact that Battlefront is considering internet play more important that pbem play is fact that I can't understand. I have played few sessions that way, but they usually take 2-4 hours atleast. I tend to think my moves long time since I am not that good gamer... And it's rare occasion where I have to to sit down for that long session of CM.

[Elmar Bijlsma]

Originally posted by Cirrus:

And the fact that Battlefront is considering internet play more important that pbem play is fact that I can't understand. I have played few sessions that way, but they usually take 2-4 hours atleast. I tend to think my moves long time since I am not that good gamer... And it's rare occasion where I have to to sit down for that long session of CM.

Where have you picked up that BFC considered PBEM less important then internet play? It is, and has always been, a question of what is realistically feasible to implement. These guys have been giving us the wargamers dream for the last five years and suddenly they've had their brains eaten by zombies and are out of touch with their fans? God knows there have been plenty of fans in an uproar (over nothing)so they are aware of what the community wants. They have clearely stated that they are hoping to include PBEM, they just aren't in the postion to promise anything about that yet given the limits of PBEM file sizes.

Now, if any other company would say that they can't make promises that means that there is no way in Hades it's going to happen. If BFC says they can't make promises, they aren't fully 100% certain of it yet. Yes, a company being truthful towards their customers is unexpected and confusing.

So calm down, read what BFC has actually said on the issue, then calm down some more.

[Vergeltungswaffe]

Originally posted by Cirrus:

About the profiling of CM gamers in that other thread linked above. Has there been some kind of gallup where those playtypes has been profiled (solo/internet/pbem)? I can say that since I've purchased these games I have played zero solo plays. I would have betted that solo playing in CM is not very popular...

BFC and other game manufacturers are well aware that the VAST majority of all games that have a single player and multiplayer option will be sold to people that will never even consider playing against another human being. For every one of us on these forums, who primarily play pbem, ip, etc, there are many CM players who do not.

[Canuck]

Originally posted by Elmar Bijlsma:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Soddball:

File size shouldn't be that much of a bother. My GMail account will send and receive attachments of 10MB, which is 100 times the size of a typical QB PBEM file.

I dont know what QBs you are playing but my turn movies easily get to 1mb. 2mb and higher isnt too rare either. With all the new bells and whistles 10mb might very well be reached. And not everyone uses G-Mail so their mailboxes might fill rather quick!

Steve himself said they are really trying to get it in. They arent stupid so ofcourse they are trying that. Nor should we be under the impression we were given the heads up on this issue just to mess with our minds, if it was easy to implent PBEM they wouldve done so and kept quiet about the whole thing. </font>

[Scipio]

Originally posted by Elmar Bijlsma:

Where have you picked up that BFC considered PBEM less important then internet play? ... [snip]

Maybe you should read the threat that you've kindly linked as 'Because' above:

Originally posted by Battlefront.com:

PBEM is certainly something that is used quite frequently, but compared to solo play it doesn't likely come close to matching it. Inernet play is probably 3rd (after Solo and PBEM) with Hotseat coming in a distant 4th.

But the times they are a changing, and so is CMx2 with it. We expect the order to be solo, Interent, PBEM (if we can do it), and hotseat for CMx2. When we introduce CoPlay (co-op multiplaye) lateron we still expect solo to be 1st, though CoPlay will likely be a much closer 2nd than any CMx1 options are to solo play.

Steve

Well, I don't know how BFC figures out if CM is played more solo then PBEM. I nearly never play vs the AI. To win or lose vs a machine is just pointless for me. But well, I guess they know what they are talking about.

But I don't think that online live matches will ever take the lead over PBEM, except the whole system will be changed into a RT game with battles no longer then 30 minutes, speaking of real time, not in-game-time. Combat Mission: Total War

[imported_KG_ThorsHammer]

Although programming issues are understandable, i think a lot of business would be lost if it was a direct connection play only. Too many people are too busy to commit the time needed to sit down for several hours of direct play. I myself never play the computer and although I have a decent amount of time and could play direct, most of my games are always PBEM due to time zone differences and opponents schedules. As it all comes down to the bottom line in business, I think it would be a mistake to remove this important feature.

[MartinEden]

I'm really KG_Soldier, but for some reason I'm no longer able to log on as such (probably due to lack of posting). Here at the KG clan, we make extensive use of Teamspeak, making tcip/ip games pretty easy to play. We also have several team games going on all the time through PBEM. Single player PBEM games abound too. I love the quick decision making required in tcip/ip games, but they do require at least 3 or 4 hours to play (which is hard to find for most). I purchased CMBO, CMBB, and CMAK. I plot on a pbem game or play tcip/ip almost daily (lately a lot of CMAK and rarely against the AI). As much as it hurts me to say this, I feel it necessary. I WILL NOT PURCHASE CMx2 UNLESS IT HAS AN E-MAIL FUNCTION!

Sorry,

KG_Soldier

[Doodlebug]

PBEM constitutes 100% of my game play in CMBB and CMAK. I never went back to CMBO after the others in the series were released. For me it would be terminal to lose PBEM. An alternative form of asynchronous play would be acceptable but it would need to be there for me to use. The we-go system that these games have pioneered is the "hook" that got me addicted to these awesome games. I adore the replays I get back from my opponents. It is fantastic to be able to watch and replay the actions and incidents over and over again.

Watch, replay, enjoy, think, plot. That's what PBEM format gives me. Oh, that and the privilege of having made the aquaintance of many fine and knowledgeable gamers spanning the globe, in completely different time zones, that I could never, ever, have played against without the PBEM/asynchronous play option.

[Palantir]

I doubt that I would purchase CMx2 without a PBEM ability. I don't have the time to sit and play on the internet for 3-4 straight hours.

Plus, I agree with everything Doodlebug said above.

Maybe when CMx3 comes out I'll buy that, if it has PBEM. Then again if a competitor comes out with a good PBEM system...

[Chipaev]

Please keep PBEM. As KG_Jag mentioned earlier there are things we do with PBEM that cannot be accomplished with a TCP/IP game especially with time restrictions. I think you guys will lose a lot of hardcore players if you do not include it in the next version. As for file sizes, I have never had any problems sending files upwards to 3 megs.

[Scipio]

I wonder were are all the solo players asking for improvments on the AI, if they are so many. I do see a lot of people poping up to post for the first time as well as the players from the first hour, sharping knifes and collecting tar and feathers, just because Steve has said 'maybe we have to cut out the PBEM feature', while no one seems to be interested into an AI that's able to lead an attack. Not here, and not in other forums.

The unique we-go system avoids cheating. Who needs a system that avoids cheating, if he's playing vs a machine?

[Ardem]

The unique we-go system avoids cheating. Who needs a system that avoids cheating, if he's playing vs a machine? [/QB]

Hmm the benefits of WEGO system is not about cheating, its about having orders that are distributed and unchangeable, also not the click fest of an RTS.

I have never thought of the WEGO system as an anti-cheat system.

[NiG]

Wow... long time since I've been here :eek:

...but this topic has brought me back. I find it incredulous that the designers are optioning to drop PBEM. Every single game I've played in the last two years has been PBEM and I would not have been able to play any of them if the feature didn't exist.

I can see that if CMx2 doesn't have this feature then it will be pointless buying it.

After playing an 'live' opponent the AI games are just plain boring as the AI is too predictable and I simply don't have time to TCP/IP with my opponents in the States (5-8 hours behind) or 'Down under' (8-11 hours ahead) as I'm in the UK.

In a nutshell CMx2 without PBEM = forget it, you're wasting your time.

I prefer to have no pre-built scenarios, no solo game feature and no TCP/IP than lose PBEM- it's the most important bit

[GreenAsJade]

I think you mean "incredible".

However, if you had taken the time to read the extensive discussion of this issue, you would be less incredulous.

The basic fact put before us is that despite long threads of people here saying that they won't buy CM if it doesn't have PBEM (I'm one of them) ... despite that, BTS have stated that their biggest market by far is people playing against the AI.

IF this is true, then it's obvious why PBEM doesn't have #1 priority for them.

And you would think they would be the ones who know how their game is being played, wouldn't you?

I can see that if CMx2 doesn't have this feature then it will be pointless buying it.

You mean pointless for you, right? Do you think anyone cares that much? Do you think BTS care that much? If you do, then you are wrong: they have said they care about the AI players most, because there's the most of those out there. Hard to argue with that, no matter how disappointing it is.

And it's not even at the point of being disappointing yet, because they haven't said they aren't doing it yet!!!

GaJ

[NiG]

Incredulous = Expressions of disbelief - what's wrong with that?

What kind of idiot are you? You don't understand English and are basically telling me my opinion doesn't count!?

Okay if that's the case then what's the point of this discussion. I'm a customer and so is everyone else here, our opinions count and we are entitled to them.

You also suggest no-one cares what I think! We'll I sincerely hope you're wrong on that one as most of the guys posted above are my opponents around the globe - I really hope they'd be as dissapointed if they lost me as an opponent as I would if I lost them. :mad:

[ August 31, 2005, 01:26 AM: Message edited by: NiG ]

[Derfel]

OK, just for the sake of balance, and to show that there are other opinions on this issue;

Personally I never play PBEM and wouldn't miss it if it didn't show up in CMX and since I don't use this feature I would prefer the designers focus their energy on all the other things that could do with a little improvement.

-Derfel

[Boff]

[pops head above parapet]

I note the 'chill out' comments from Steve but I feel I need to make my voice heard as well. I only ever play via PBEM, mostly in tournaments. Without some sort of PBEM-like system in CM2 I can foresee that a lot of people like me would stick to CMBB and CMAK for the majority of our games, and CM2 would be of curiosity value rather than the next must-have CM release..

[ducks]

[Taki]

I also have to comment on this. And im not lying. If PBEM isnt in, im out.

The one thing that keep you motivated playing CM over and over again is the PBEM Game and buy the other Modules. Not that Much Focus on TCP/IP cause this Games took Minimum of 2,5 HOurs if you play a Med to Small Game. PBEM is essential.

These things are looking more and more going to RTS