Here is how bad the movement code actually is, and it's not just "pathfinding"

[hoolaman]

Originally posted by Bahger:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />To be fair to the reviewers, we were rightly slammed for the state of the build they saw (many got 1.0 when they should have received 1.01, which still had issues obviously). Regardless of the technical issues, however, some reviewers clearly "didn't get it". They wanted a different game than the one we made and they let that affect their review. It should not have, but whatever.

The main problem we had was the combo of reviewers who "didn't get it" and who had v1.0. That was a bad combo since even if they saw v1.03 they probably would have been negative, but with the bugs... not a good thing.

Oh come on, Steve, this is nothing but denial and evasion. You sound like George W. Bush when asked if he has made any mistakes.

I'm going to give CMSF another shot with 1.03 but you cannot go unchallenged with this guff re. bad reviews being about reviewers who "didn't get" the game.

</font>

[imported_Major_Jerkov]

I dont get it.

[Darkmath]

IMHO, the people who don't "get it" are people who shelved CMSF and won't play it back even after some improvements have been done (patches etc...) because it is supposedly due to design limitations .

How come one would imagine it represents a lot of people? I don't get it.

[wolf66]

Today after years of waiting and anticipation we proudly present our new Ferrari model CMSF .... No, it is not a sportscar, because we found that station wagons are more reliable and more people like them ..... No, we don't have them in red, because we found most people like less vibrant colors better .... No there is no manual transmission, because automatic transmission is the way into the future ...... What do you mean "the tires are too tiny" ?? It seems you have no idea what you are talking about ?? What ?? You are not interested in buying one ?!! You just don't get it !!

[B00M$LANG]

Originally posted by Statisoris:

...Why do you blame BF so much for releasing the game in its current state, they HAD to by contract. Why are you rubbing how crappy the game is in their face? has their post-release support for the game been sub-par in any way? If not, why throw around so many negative vibes. be cool :cool:

Because denigrating others gives one a sense of superiority.

BTW, CM:SF isn't a crappy game at all, IMHO...and that's all it is...an opinion.

[Redwolf]

Originally posted by thewood:

What I am puzzled about is that more people are compaining about design decisions than the early release. To me, the early release is more troubling than the design concept. It really seems to go directly against BFC's core message about being an "indy" and being ready when its ready. It also makes it difficult for some people to seperate the bugs from the design. My vote is still out on some design things because I can't tell if they are actually working or not.

Design decisions and bugs can be changed and corrected, but cred is hard to get.

Personally I don't see the problem with it. If I get the first "play-polished" release in September I don't see what difference it makes whether there was a different release in July or not.

[thewood]

The $0.50 I could have drawn in interest. What are you rich?

I would also like to point out the time I have wasted reading forums to figure out whats going on with the game. Also the amount of time I have spent playing and testing and 9 times out of 10 ending in frustration.

[B00M$LANG]

There's this thing called "Expectation Management".

BF never promised you the Second Coming, and they have told you it was an unfinished product, and yet people STILL buy it expecting it to be the be all and end all.

It's almost as if some of you expect this game to cure cancer or something.

IT'S...A...GAME!

[Mord]

Maybe people oughta look at it this way...you could've spent another two months waiting, and drooling, and pining, and wanting and wondering...but you got to spend those two months (which is what I think it'll probably take to get to where we'd like to be) screwing around with the game, learning the engine and UI, creating scenarios and getting used to the new fangled equipment. If this were any other company, I probably wouldn't be talking like this, but it's not...it's BFC and they haven't let me down yet...so I have faith and find the good where I can.

Mord.

[SlowMotion]

BOOM$LANG wrote:

"BF never promised you the Second Coming, and they have told you it was an unfinished product, and yet people STILL buy it expecting it to be the be all and end all."

I think some of these high expectations are caused by naming. When CMx1 players see Combat Mission in game's title they assume it's a sequel that adds things to the level where CMx1 games stopped.

[FinnN]

Originally posted by Elmar Bijlsma:

...I wonder if people are at times aware how incredibly rare it is for developers to be this involved on the forum....[/QB]

You know, thinking about it - all the strategy games I like playing have active people from the dev teams on their respective forums. Whilst it's true in general of gaming, I don't think it's true of 'niche' games at all.

Personally I think the game is being patched in a direction that looks good, but one thing I think this thread proves is that for game issues (including but not limited to bugs) BFC really needs a more structured way of getting and providing feedback. Personally I like the system Paradox uses for their own games but there are alternatives and I wish BFC would consider them.

Have fun

Finn

[Bahger]

Originally posted by wolf66:

Today after years of waiting and anticipation we proudly present our new Ferrari model CMSF .... No, it is not a sportscar, because we found that station wagons are more reliable and more people like them ..... No, we don't have them in red, because we found most people like less vibrant colors better .... No there is no manual transmission, because automatic transmission is the way into the future ...... What do you mean "the tires are too tiny" ?? It seems you have no idea what you are talking about ?? What ?? You are not interested in buying one ?!! You just don't get it !!

Very funny. Provocative and mischievous but funny. And not entirely untrue.

[Bradley Dick]

I can't wait for this thread to hit 300 and be locked.

[Rocky Balboa]

To those of you who don't like the game and are angry, upset, frustrated, (insert additional negative emotions here). Did you play the demo? If you played the demo and didn't like it but you bought the game anyway then why are you upset with BFC? Obviously you have read some negative reviews and agree with those reviews so why did you buy the game? Did you buy the game thinking it was going to be different somehow? Did you pay your ~$50.00 thinking that now you have the right to piss and moan about how bad you think it is? If you haven't purchased the game and are here on these forums trying to convince the consumers who feel they have made a worthy purchase that we are wrong, then you seriously do need to get a life.

To be honest I think I made a wise buying decision. I played the 1.02 demo and liked what I saw, I paid my ~$50.00 like everyone else and even though I see issues with the game, I have already had several hours worth of enjoyment and entertainment. Heck, I'll spend > $50.00 taking the wife and kids to a movie and maybe (that's a big maybe with some of the crap Hollywood dishes out) getting a few hours entertainment. My point is, don't get so bent out of shape because CMSF didn't meet your personal expectation. These guys are human, they made some mistakes, they have admitted their mistakes, and they are working hard correct the problems as they perceive them to be.

[Redwolf]

The only things worse than people complaining are people who complain about the complains instead of keeping their noses out of threads that are obviously about complaints.

You must be very bored, Bradley and Rocky, that you spend your time reading threads that you obviously don't like to read.

[Bradley Dick]

I just post on this thread to see what kind of pissy comments I can get out of you, Redwolf.

Actually, Redwolf, I think your original point was lost a few pages ago. This thread has become a cycle of repeating posts. Post A involves bashing Steve personally, the game, or some other aspect of Battlefront. Post B is someone arguing against point A. It's getting kinda lost at this point.

I can stick my nose wherever I want, by the way. And obviously, if I had a whole helluva lot to do while I'm here I wouldn't be on this thing at all.... right ?

Don't take it personally. I didn't say "Redwolf, you are a douchebag." All I said was that I would be glad when this was over with. Of course it will begin again with a new thread, I acknowledge that.

[Bradley Dick]

My mouse is charged.

[ August 29, 2007, 11:08 AM: Message edited by: Bradley Dick ]

[Rocky Balboa]

Originally posted by Redwolf: The only things worse than people complaining are people who complain about the complains instead of keeping their noses out of threads that are obviously about complaints.

You must be very bored, Bradley and Rocky, that you spend your time reading threads that you obviously don't like to read.

Wolf, I have no complaints with your original post. If you purchased the game then you should be able to make a realistic, informed, rational and coherent post about an issue with the game that you feel isn't working correctly. Which I believe you did. My post was directed primarily at those people who continuously want to rant about what BFC did wrong in the past and demanding apologies for some perceived transgression.

As for your original post, you made your case about the path finding and AI. I question whether it was necessary because BFC has already admitted that there were problems in those areas and was even working on a patch. So unless you include yourself in the vocal minority that want to continuously scourge BFC for their sins then I agree with your OP.... There are problems with the pathfinding and AI in CM:SF 1.02

[mitchell58]

Come on guys,,,I think this is getting kinda' out of hand here.,,Posters here are adult gamers and it doesn't seem right when we get all worked up like this and insults start flying,,come on guys it is so nice when the posts are polite, and funny and enlightning but I think it is time to get closure on this already..For pete's sake enough,,Please,,,TY

[Huntarr]

I take full responsibility for this thread going psycho. I made the observation of the use of FAST, then small suggestion that Red try the experiment with the MOVE command. That set off a chain of anger that has lead us to a totally irrelevent thread, due to 1.03 has fixed the OP's problem. Oh well..

[Redwolf]

Folks.

I've been around the CM community since shortly after the CMBO release. I am also a programmer by profession.

I know for fact that timing is critical in reporting bugs. No matter how much point or no point your bug report has. You have to submit it at the right time. Because even if the bug report is valid, it will not be fixed if it comes too late, or sometimes even if it comes too early. BFC does not "backport" fixes to older games. So if you want the Syria invasion CMx2 module fixed, you do it now. Or it won't get fixed.

As to whether BFC already knew well enough about the nature of the path-invention code (I don't call it pathfinding, because I had already given the vehicle a path that it chose to ignore) is a question nobody here can answer. I do know, however, that there was no public statement that this state of affairs is bad enough to be considered worthwhile fixing before my post. And even after my posts the statements were unclear, except that "some pathing" issues were addressed.

So if you want it fixed, you reproduce it, you collect the evidence, you brace yourself against the impact of the "whatever is in CM is what reality is like" crowd and then you submit it at the right time. Between the 1.02 and 1.03 fix is the right time, because up to 1.02 techical issues were addressed and 1.03 is the first, and possibly only, major gameplay polishing patch.

For what it's worth, I have my expectations about how much and what part of this problem is fixed in 1.03. I won't post here because it's too late to influence 1.03 and I don't want further flamewars. But I am willing to mail my expectations to somebody now so that I later have an independent voice telling me whether I was full of it or whether I predicted accurately. Would be an interesting experiment. Any takers?

[Merkin Muffley]

Any takers?

Fire away; email in profile - at least for a bit until I take it away.

[thewood]

Expect an email from me with an offer on viagra, dating, weight loss, and free money.

[Merkin Muffley]

Ooh, I can keep it up, get it on, get it down and keep it. Hopefully in that order.

[thewood]

Well, if you keep it up for more than 4 hours, call a doctor.