Use of ATGM's against defending infantry - gamey?

[Vanir Ausf B]

Originally posted by JonS:

Squads in CMSF get shagged very quickly when carting Jav kit about.

I'm going to start carrying a Javelin around with me on the weekends.

[thewood]

Is that a Javelin in your pocket, or are you REAL happy CMSF is out.

[Krinks]

Here's a video of a Javelin being used against something other than a tank. I'm not sure if the enemy is in a bunker, building or trench (it's hard to tell), but this shows it being used for something else: YouTube Video.

[thelmia]

Milan ATGMs were used in the Falklands to kill Argentine bunkers. TOWs are used all the time in Iraq. TOWs were used by the 82nd Airborne to shoot up Uday and Qusay's hideout back in 2003. There's a long tradition of using weapons outside of their intended role, and if it kills the enemy, who cares?

How much do you think airstrikes cost? A Javelin is a bargain.

[Elmar Bijlsma]

Originally posted by Krinks:

Here's a video of a Javelin being used against something other than a tank. I'm not sure if the enemy is in a bunker, building or trench (it's hard to tell), but this shows it being used for something else: YouTube Video.

This video was talked about here earlier. It's a Javelin being used to take out an empty vehicle that the troops saw insurgents remove weapons from. So if you think you were using Javelins at the slightest provocation, think back to this vid and feel better.

[Pinetree]

Michael Yon witnessed British troops using Javelin missiles to take out insurgents in open ground.

(If you scroll down to the bottom of the page in the link there's video of them in action.)

[Melnibone]

I launched 5 Javelins in the final tutorial campaign battle - as soon as the enemy showed up I would target the building and kaboom. In RL I suspect the usage would have been much lower? Maybe only if a particular building is giving particularly stubborn resistance? I got through the battle with only 2 wounded - and no Stryker losses. Without the Javelins it would have been much more painful. I may start to limit the number I acquire when leaving the vehicle - once equipped they are too tempting to use!

[Yskonyn]

I might add that the freely downloadable Steel Beasts 1 manual has a few pages with background information about munitions and armor.

There's also a short paragraph about the Javelin.

Interesting stuff.

Get it at www.steelbeasts.com and be sure to download the manual for SB1, not Pro PE.

[SmithyG]

well, we have to keep in mind that this is an invasion. If I were a soldier I'd use the best tool available for the job. Unless of course it was needed for a different task I'm already aware of. I have to imagine that saving equipment for later use likely leads to a lot of dead guys carrying expensive equipment. So we shouldnt restrict the use of the Javelin.

I do think it should be less effective on buildings. Like i said earlier, its hard to imagine 3 javelins bringing down a house, much less a multistory building.

[Vergeltungswaffe]

Originally posted by Krinks:

Here's a video of a Javelin being used against something other than a tank. I'm not sure if the enemy is in a bunker, building or trench (it's hard to tell), but this shows it being used for something else: YouTube Video.

Interesting how the missiles motor plume is directed out the back, like its presented in SF, rather than out the sides like the others I've seen.

[GriffinCheng+]

The baseline is: I don't tell my infantry to use that expensive Javelin on soft targets, inface I don't have a choice of what they use at all! Why should it gamey? @@

In one QB, total 4 were used by two different squads, one exploded on tree top, instantly incap 3 enemies and wounded the 4 rest. The other 3 were launched inside a single-floor building, very effective! Yet I have to see one tearing down a building -- the 12.7mm cannon has done it once. One troop was hit by an RPG inside the building once in the tutorial campaign, I guess I know how it felt on the recipient side...

[MikeyD]

Before the arrival of MGS in Iraq, Stryker TOW ATGM was tasked as close infantry support. And typical use of the weapon was not max range but from near point blank! So ATGM vs infantry has had a solid history.

Lets not forget the Red side either. A nasty reality for the Israeli army during last year's Lebanon war was the greatly increased use of ATGMs as long range anti-infantry sniper weapons. If you spot a sqaud scampering into a buillding 2k away and posess the means to collapse the building on top of them, why not?

[kipanderson]

Hi,

I have read the comments of Russian designers on this topic. They are well aware that nine out of ten of their ATGMs will be fired at targets offer than AFVs. I am sure in other armies the same is true even if your training staff try to get you not to use them too liberally against infantry.

The British use Javelin routinely against infantry/Taliban.

All good fun,

All the best,

Kip.

[Andreas]

Originally posted by kipanderson:

The British use Javelin routinely against infantry/Taliban.

All good fun,

Not for the Taliban.

All the best

Andreas