aesopo Posted June 12, 2006 Share Posted June 12, 2006 SC2 still comes across as a beer and pretzel game with regards to complexity and game mechanics - yes still a big improvement from SC1 but still lacking depth. Anyone checked out computer world war 2 in europe by decision games? No AI though. But Hubert still did a good leap from SC1. But for SC3, I think he needs a grognards/military person perspective for it for playtesting (well that is four years away? hehe). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisND Posted June 12, 2006 Share Posted June 12, 2006 I like my beer and pretzels. (Except for the AI). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fartknock3r Posted June 12, 2006 Share Posted June 12, 2006 Oh its June 12th, its June 11th over here. Oh ok ya, beer and pretzels. Hate em both. But i DO love sc2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon_j_rambo Posted June 12, 2006 Share Posted June 12, 2006 @assmypoo --- If the game is so simple, why haven't you racked up any victories? It seems you fail to like, because you do not understand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fartknock3r Posted June 12, 2006 Share Posted June 12, 2006 Originally posted by jon_j_rambo: @assmypoo --- If the game is so simple, why haven't you racked up any victories? . That was just sad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blashy Posted June 12, 2006 Share Posted June 12, 2006 Originally posted by aesopo: SC2 still comes across as a beer and pretzel game with regards to complexity and game mechanics - . I`m not in Hubert's head, but I think that was the goal... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisND Posted June 12, 2006 Share Posted June 12, 2006 Yeah. Not all of us are hard-core grognards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aesopo Posted June 12, 2006 Author Share Posted June 12, 2006 Jon, Get a life! Your ill mannered misgivings/behavior and malicious obfuscations show how malignant and maladjusted your thought patterns are. You need a mental health assessment and God help you if you have kids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hellraiser Posted June 12, 2006 Share Posted June 12, 2006 Originally posted by aesopo: Jon, Get a life! Your ill mannered misgivings/behavior and malicious obfuscations show how malignant and maladjusted your thought patterns are. You need a mental health assessment and God help you if you have kids. Wow!!! What complex words!!! Obfusc...what? Malignant...maladj...gimme a break... Aesoap, do you have a degree? Way too (kuni) lingual for me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moon Posted June 12, 2006 Share Posted June 12, 2006 aesopo, SC2 has always been intended as a beer and pretzels game, so what you posted is in fact a nice proof of Hubert meeting his own goals I don't quite agree with your assessment of "depth" however... cramming a game full with details is not necessarily adding "depth". It can be bad game design, too (notice I am not talking specifically about the game you mentioned because I don't know it). Likewise, lack of minute details does not necessarily mean that a game lacks depth. Or to put it differently: abstractions in the game design, if done well, can produce the same or better results in terms of realism and decision cycles even without having to simulate the kitchen sink in detail. That's called good game design. If you define depth as replayability, then for me personally SC2 is deeper than any other WW2 grand strategy game out there, because I am able to start and finish the entire WW2 in one evening session with it. Martin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ottosmops Posted June 12, 2006 Share Posted June 12, 2006 Originally posted by Moon: Likewise, lack of minute details does not necessarily mean that a game lacks depth.That's true. For example, the game of Go (Weiqi in China, Baduk in Korea) has no details at all, is very simple to play and has still nearly unlimited strategic possibilities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolend Posted June 12, 2006 Share Posted June 12, 2006 I think although Rambo was a little over zealous defending SC 2 the personal attack, on the level you just made Aesopo, was uncalled for and I think a very childish reaction. SC 2 is a very good game, is it the be all and end all of WWII turn based games? Nope in fact I prefer tactical level turn based WWII games and have not been very happy with any since Panzer General series, however I think SC 2 is a VERY sound game and more importantly FUN to play. Also I give it the highest grade for any game I have played when it comes to support. The designer is on here all the time listening to us and discussing with us the game, and that counts for 100 times any game with tons of micromanagement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exel Posted June 12, 2006 Share Posted June 12, 2006 Micromanagement does not equal depth. HoI has plenty, and I still consider SC2 to have more tactical depth in it. Too much detail is often used to cover up an otherwise hollow game, whereas on the other hand a successful game design does not need all those pesky distractions. Oh and rambo had it coming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scook Posted June 12, 2006 Share Posted June 12, 2006 The things that make this game play well are the same that make chess or Texas Hold 'Em poker so popular. The rules are easy to grasp, and there is depth, especially against other people. I spend my time playing against my opponent, not worrying about minutae. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisND Posted June 13, 2006 Share Posted June 13, 2006 Exactly. Chess is as simple as it gets. Look at the depth in that game! (Without modeling oil even) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fartknock3r Posted June 13, 2006 Share Posted June 13, 2006 I'd like extra pretzles, (strategic) and less beer. (Tactical) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrWinterbottom Posted June 13, 2006 Share Posted June 13, 2006 I will confess that I have only played one campaign with it, but I gotta say that I was just a little bit disappointed with it. I don't know, maybe I expected more or something. But it did kinda feel like SC1 with improved graphics and some other doodads thrown in for good measure. But then again, that's just me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Spinello Posted June 13, 2006 Share Posted June 13, 2006 MrWinterbottom, you must not forget SC2´s potential regarding mods. There are already some good ones out there providing a fresh feel to the game. Check it out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rleete Posted June 13, 2006 Share Posted June 13, 2006 Originally posted by Normal Dude: Exactly. Chess is as simple as it gets. Look at the depth in that game! (Without modeling oil even) That's damn near sig material. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honch Posted June 13, 2006 Share Posted June 13, 2006 Originally posted by Normal Dude: Yeah. Not all of us are hard-core grognards. Actually I AM a hard core Grognard and love the game. Hubert has given us a tool in the editor to take the basic game and really delve in and make it something that is as complex as we want it to be. He could have spent all of his time in refining the game and not providing the editor but I am glad he did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrWinterbottom Posted June 14, 2006 Share Posted June 14, 2006 Originally posted by Major Spinello: MrWinterbottom, you must not forget SC2´s potential regarding mods. There are already some good ones out there providing a fresh feel to the game. Check it out! Mods?? Oh yea? Hmmm.. wouldn't have any links handy would you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retributar Posted June 14, 2006 Share Posted June 14, 2006 http://www.cmmods.com/web/CMMods.nsf?OpenDatabase&login http://www.jeffpinard.com/SC2.htm & SC2 MODS/SCENARIO FORUM http://www.battlefront.com/discuss/ultimatebb.php?ubb=forum;f=59 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrWinterbottom Posted June 14, 2006 Share Posted June 14, 2006 heh.. oops! I searched for mods in the wrong forum... * blush * Thanks for the links.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timskorn Posted June 14, 2006 Share Posted June 14, 2006 I used to play a game called Command HQ back in the early 90's. The AI stunk, but it gave my dad a good challenge, and you could play over modem (which we did a lot). To me it was the epitome of a B&P wargame. It was simple in design but it really gave me a sense of commanding the entire war, and it had just enough detail to it to allow strategy in attacking and defending. On top of all that it managed to be somewhat real-time, but slow enough to allow you to properly plan and attack. I love B&P games. SC2 is great because of that very reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolend Posted June 14, 2006 Share Posted June 14, 2006 I just don't see SC 2 as a real B & P game, to me the board game Risk is B & P. The old turn based computer game 'The Perfect General' or even older war game called 'Empire' (was like Risk only bigger and a little more involved) were good examples of B & P. Sure SC 2 is not a super paced super intense game but there is enough there to keep you thinking and trying differant things, it certinaly is not like sitting down to play a game of checkers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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