Apache Posted September 19, 2002 Share Posted September 19, 2002 What's this about a 90 page manual for Europe? One of the things I was looking forward to was the full 270 odd page manual, not some crappy little 'normal game' pamphlet!!!! Is the same manual going to be provided throughout Europe (e.g. UK too)? If so I think I'll cancel my order and try to get it through a US forum member. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madmatt Posted September 19, 2002 Share Posted September 19, 2002 CDV has to offer there games in the new, smaller DVD sized cases. As such the full manual could not be shrunk down to fit into the space available in the case. What you get is a 90 page printed manual with all the key game info and the rest is offered on the CD in PDF format. This is for the CDV version ONLY. Madmatt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apache Posted September 19, 2002 Author Share Posted September 19, 2002 Thanks for the reply Madmatt but it ain't good news. Have cancelled UK order and am trying to source elsewhere. What price progress eh. If I do have to opt for the CDV version in the end is there any way I can order a manual from BFC? [ September 19, 2002, 05:07 PM: Message edited by: Apache ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murpes Posted September 19, 2002 Share Posted September 19, 2002 Originally posted by Apache: Thanks for the reply Madmatt but it ain't good news. Have cancelled UK order and am trying to source elsewhere. What price progress eh. If I do have to opt for the CDV version in the end is there any way I can order a amnual from BFC?There was an op/ed piece about this very issue in one of the recent PC gaming mags - the loss of a "real" manual with the advent on the Wal-Mart dictated DVD boxes (bastards). The best solution I heard proposed was what you suggested, a certificate or and order form for a bound manual. Other than going back to the old style boxes, I think it's a good idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apache Posted September 19, 2002 Author Share Posted September 19, 2002 If necessary I'll order it via my sister in Australia. I WILL have that manual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt Steiner Posted September 19, 2002 Share Posted September 19, 2002 Hi I got to say that I find this manual 'issue' EXTREMELY annoying ! We in UK/Europe have been told all along that the ONLY change to CDVs release of CMBB would be the minor change of SS to WG (no problem) I recall (no time or indeed interest in searching for relevant thread) that it was said on the CMBO forum that we would be given the same manual as US version not some 90 page pamphlet and DIY for rest !!!!!!!! Had I (and I suspect many others) have known this was the way things were to be we would have gone the route of using an US pal to pass on US version to us. I have never in all my dealings with BTS and CMBO and time on this forum (basically since eta Demo days) ever 'bitched' 'moaned' or 'cried' about anything but this is VERY VERY annoying indeed. I feel very let down by the total lack of firm release dates by CDV and the lack of information ref these 'differences' between versions ! I can only hope that the delay until release on 4th October for UK version is because CDV will be supplying a PROPER manual !!?? I dont like making posts like this but I am really frustrated by this news and so late in the day !! It is already taking the gloss of a great game for me. Not a good show at all chaps......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agua Posted September 19, 2002 Share Posted September 19, 2002 Move along now. [ September 20, 2002, 08:47 AM: Message edited by: Agua ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrAlimantado Posted September 19, 2002 Share Posted September 19, 2002 Originally posted by Gary Barr: I recall (no time or indeed interest in searching for relevant thread) that it was said on the CMBO forum that we would be given the same manual as US version not some 90 page pamphlet and DIY for rest !!!!!!!!The only firm statement that I can remember is from Achim Heidelauf, who works at CDV. He stated in a thread from the 25th of July: [...]the European version will contain a printed manual plus a pdf. And technically he is right, I guess. But, well, yeah .... dunno. M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apache Posted September 19, 2002 Author Share Posted September 19, 2002 Agua, many thanks for offer. Mail en route. Luckily there's guys like you out there who are able to help us out. Ordinarily I wouldn't mind but I want a book, not a pdf and a resultant bunch of A4 paper with staples through it! I ain't impressed in the least!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madmatt Posted September 19, 2002 Share Posted September 19, 2002 Just hold your horses guys, we aint ever let you down yet and we won't on this one either. Expect an official message on this subject very soon with some details that will make everyone nice and happy again... Madmatt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt Steiner Posted September 19, 2002 Share Posted September 19, 2002 Hi Agua I'll take on a couple more of you guys and that's all I can handle for the time being. If you folks want a US version, e-mail me and I'll get you one.Thanks for kind offer (and similar from other US blokes) but I will decline as I am disenchanted enough with BTS/CDV at this point as to not want to spend one extra penny on this increasingly illusive game than I have to despite its appeal. Yours still grouchy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt Steiner Posted September 19, 2002 Share Posted September 19, 2002 Hi Madmatt Just hold your horses guys, we aint ever let you down yet and we won't on this one either. Expect an official message on this subject very soon with some details that will make everyone nice and happy again... Ok........equine reins in hold mode...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andreas Posted September 20, 2002 Share Posted September 20, 2002 Public service bump for Matt's announcement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Das Boot Posted September 20, 2002 Share Posted September 20, 2002 This is really annoying and the lack of a proper manual makes a warez copy look really inviting (I won't get one and have e-mailed Agua to get an American copy). A PDF-manual isn't a real manual IMO. I know this isn't Battlefront's fault but I suspect a lot of marginal customers might decide against it. The decision to exclude Europeans from buying the American version makes this even more possible - and I don't understand the reason behind the decision. I suspect only hardcore wargamers would buy it in America anyway while the marginal customers would see it in the shop and buy it. Tue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kwazydog Posted September 20, 2002 Share Posted September 20, 2002 Guys, just letting you know we are looking into alternatives here for you. We just need a little time to do this Das Boot, thanks for your support, we do appreciate it. The bottom line is that through CDV we can probably reach many many more customers than through the net, so it wasnt a hard descision to make once we weighted up all the options. Whilst we honestly do understand its hard on you guys whom are our current and loyal fans, the good news is that it will expand the community much more than if we didnt run with it and that will help out not just us, but you guys as well. Think of it this way...most new customers in Europe wont even miss the larger manual, yet if we didnt go with CDV they may not even have known about CMBB. Dan [ September 20, 2002, 04:31 AM: Message edited by: KwazyDog ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Krejcirik Posted September 20, 2002 Share Posted September 20, 2002 Originally posted by KwazyDog: [QB]Think of it this way...most new customers in Europe wont even miss the larger manual, yet if we didnt go with CDV they may not even have known about CMBB. /QB]How can you be so sure. Most people I know dislike PDF manuals. They are almost useless. Have you ever tried read one while in-game, or off computer... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer76 Posted September 20, 2002 Share Posted September 20, 2002 I for one prefer the DVD case to those bulky boxes, and a having a manual partyl as a PDF file, hey,it's not the end of the world. How many times are u gonna read that thing? You'r gonna bring it along on the vacation maybe? Then again, I get the full manual Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kwazydog Posted September 20, 2002 Share Posted September 20, 2002 I can be so sure becuase most of these players wouldnt even buy CMBB expect for us publishing in Europe through CDV. Martin, I do beleive there is a 90 page paper manual included with the European version. This is more than enough to explain the finer details of CMBB, and is 2/3's of the origional manual. Please note this, as you seem to be under the impression that we include no manual? I think most players wont even need to read the larger manual but if they do wish to it is there in PDF format. Also, as has been stated, we are looking into other option for European users whom with the manual in paper format. Dan [ September 20, 2002, 05:06 AM: Message edited by: KwazyDog ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apache Posted September 20, 2002 Author Share Posted September 20, 2002 I am still a committed supporter of BTS and I fully accept the fact that this will get CM into a much wider fraternity. Surely the main reason for the CDV deal is to mainline the game and as you point out, most people buying from shops will not know about and will not therefore miss the full manual. There are however quite a few loyal customers who went to the lengths of buying direct from the net with CMBO, have been loyal supporters of BTS and this forum who DO know about the full manual. IIRC one of the things CMBO was praised for in a number of magazine articles was the quality of the manual. It is some of those loyal customers who feel let down. Some may wonder why it is such a big issue but the upshot is we are paying as much as everywhere else yet are being shortchanged on the goods. They may not number that many to CDV or BTS in the grand scheme of things and this will certaily be true when we are compared to the shop sales. BUT the argument cuts both ways, the number is so small in comparision why could they (we) not just have been allowed to get the game direct, like before. I alone know of 14 UK based gamers who have cancelled their orders with shops and net retailers. One is so livid he plans to write to the hardcore wargame mags (at least one of which featured a CMBO advertisement) if this isn't sorted. It's great the BTS are able to look at work arounds, many software houses wouldn't give a damn. It is still a pity this happened though and if I know 14 unhappy (and cancelled) customers the potential effect should perhaps not be underestimated. This isn't a case of just a couple of people with a fairly minor whinge. I just hope the solution a) comes fairly soon and is a good one which doesn't involve too much more expense to get what those fortunate enough to live outside Europe get by default. [ September 20, 2002, 05:19 AM: Message edited by: Apache ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kwazydog Posted September 20, 2002 Share Posted September 20, 2002 Apache, hopefully we can make you guys happy as well. Bare with us whilst we see what are options are here Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex Bellator Posted September 20, 2002 Share Posted September 20, 2002 I think that the dismay among European players would be cured simply by allowing everyone the option to order direct from BFC in the future. I sincerely hope that CDV can be persuaded to drop whichever clause in the contract forbids this. I would guess that the vast majority of CDV sales would not be affected. Most people still purchase games in stores, we online purchasers are a definite minority. It would also be nice to think that we can have the same service as the rest of the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcelt Posted September 20, 2002 Share Posted September 20, 2002 I fully appreciate that BTS now appears to be trying to find a way to reduce the sense of disappointment felt by European purchasers re the manual issue. But my major concern and disappointment is why a) this important difference was not made clear to European customers before they decided on their purchase route why this "plan" to assuage the great disappointment by European customers was not launched some time ago.Surely the intense disappointment could have been forecast. Unfortunately at its worst and most cynical interpretation it could be seen as intentional "non revelation" by CDV. Adding this serious concern to the lack of CDV info for its non-German customers re costs and release dates, I sincerely hope that BTS rethinks its policy re the Euro-market before any future release. :mad: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jochen Schmidt Posted September 20, 2002 Share Posted September 20, 2002 Hi all! A few weeks ago i said "goodbye" to BTS - cause i was so angry and disappointed about this CDV-deal for european customers. Of course, i apologize for my harsh words - and of course i was looking still every day into this forum! With all my respect and love for BTS - i don´t trust CDV - and it seems to me to be right. Maybe, the Deal with CDV is a proper oeconomical decision - and thats good for BTS and Combat Mission - but for me, it´s like a kick in the ... . EVERY GAME, i bought from CDV was worst supported, cut down in all those little things, so important for me to buy and play! I´m shure, this will be not the last moaning of the european CMBB community! Sorry for my bad english - but i will contact Agua to get my fun with this great game! Greetings vom Germany/Stuttgart Jochen Schmidt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomm Posted September 20, 2002 Share Posted September 20, 2002 TO POTENTIAL CUSTOMERS IN VIENNA: I emailed a certain game store close to U3 Neubaugasse on the subject and they replied that they would import the US version!!! Hallo, wir sollten die CDV-Version (deutsch) demnächst bekommen, die Us-Version ist ebenfalls bestellt, dazu haben wir aber noch keinen Lieferterim (wahrscheinlich ende Sept/ Anfang Oktober).Regards, Thomm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CavalryMan Posted September 20, 2002 Share Posted September 20, 2002 I believe there is an EEC regulation about packaging that has forced software suppliers to reduce packaging to the DVD cases. I guess that in light of this CDV have re-tooled to this format and feel that whilst CMBB is a great game retooling their production for it is not viable. Just my 2c worth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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